DD wake vs sterndrive

[Guest]

I've been checking this forum and lurking in the background for some time now. There is some great information on here and I'm glad that I found it.

 

I don't like to ask questions that have already been asked, and I have searched and didn't see anything, so I thought I'd throw this out there. My family likes to boat and we go primarily to a local public lake that doesn't have a slalom course. Wife only slaloms, but not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination. One son also only skis, but he takes it more seriously and is trying learn better technique. One son also skis and is also trying to improve technique, but also likes to board. The littlest likes to jump in and swim when we stop to rotate skiers.

 

We currently have a 20 ft sterndriv/I/O/runabout/whatever want to call it. It's been a good boat, but with 80% of our time on the water spent skiing, I thought that a family-friendly DD would be a good idea and that the kids would really enjoy smaller wakes for skiing. I'm also looking for something with a tower and some light ballast for the wakeboarding. With that in mind, I've been interested in the MC X9 and the Nautique 216.

 

I've read on this site, particularly with the X9, that the slalom wake is a compromise, and that there are other boats that produce better slalom wakes. But compared to my 20ft sterndrive how will the wake be? I understanding that compared to a tournament boat it probably won't be as good. But we aren't (and probably will never be) tournament skiers and I'm not interested in a tournament boat. I'm looking for a decent boat for the family that will produce a pretty good slalom wake (significantly better than our current boat), has a tower for occasional beginner-to-intermediate boarding, and won't beat us up in less-than-ideal water conditions.

 

Basically, I don't want to spend the money on a more expensive boat if the wake will be not that much better than my current I/O. Is there anyone on the forum that could compare the wakes of some of these older, DD crossovers like the X9 or the 216 to wakes produced by your average I/O?

 

Many thanks in advance for any insight that y'all might be able to give me. Apologies in advance if this comparison between crossover DD and I/O has been made elsewhere and I wasn't able to find it.

[oldjeep]

Depends on what speed/line length you are running currently in your sterndrive and what the wake looks like. My previous boat - 7 years ago was a 2005 19 ft Bayliner 195, at 32MPH it had a very usable wake at 15 off. The wake on my Malibu VTX is also very good at that speed and line length, but at slower speeds under 30 it is pretty rough. Your best bet will be a water test of the boat you want to purchase.

[oldjeep]

I will also say that your question is likely better on some of the brand based forums, a good percentage of the folks here would not consider skiing behind a v-drive ;)

 

[LeonL]

What boat do you have? Wake varies greatly from one I/O to another.

[ScottScott]

Wake on an i/o is different. The v pattern that starts very close to the boat and spreads out from there creating a 1st wake, as you go from outside the wake into center, with a sharp drop off. This has more of an impact when you hit it. A direct drive will have more of a single hump that may be as big, but it's softer when you hit it.

 

There are a number of good boats from early 2000s geared more toward skiing, but with open bow and tower. Some of the Malibu, and the nautique 206 come to mind.

[gthalgott]

Thanks for all of the comments so far. For what it's worth, my current boat is a Maxum 2000 SRL. We run full line length at speeds of generally between 28-33. We have experimented with shortened rope lengths but the wake seems bigger/sharper on our boat, so we haven't messed with it much.

[ALPJr]

Really depends on the boat, hull shape, weight, etc. When I first became addicted to course skiing I had a 16ft Glastron V-164. It had a 130hp Volvo IO. With two people in the boat there was a very small,

soft wake and virtually no spray at -15/22 from 32 - 36 mph. That said ~20 years or so later I skied behind a friends 16ft Bayliner IO with a 4.3lt 175 Mercruiser which had a curb like wake that was dangerous to ski through at 34mph. IMO for slalom go for a nice used DD ski boat from the early mid 90’s forward if possible.

[UWSkier]

So if I'm counting, you have a family of 5 and love to ski. Do your kids plan to bring friends out someday?

 

Given that crew size and your use, and this is gonna sound like a broken record, you really can't beat a Malibu Sunsetter LXi. It's almost 22' long but has wakes that are right there on quality with the best tournament boats of that era. I believe it to this day is the largest DD ski boat to ever be AWSA approved for tournament action. Pretty much any one of these you will find will be equipped with the Wedge, which for light/moderate wakeboarding is all you need (instead of sacrificing storage space for ballast).

 

MC, CC, and Malibu all make great boats and have for decades, but for a family wanting great slalom wakes, a bit of wakeboarding, and room, nobody has yet to build a more versatile boat than the '99-04 Sunsetter LXi.

 

On the v-drive thing... I spend a ton of time behind a 2001 Malibu V-drive, and the wakes are waaay better than most here would ever admit... but since you said you have kids trying to learn/improve, v-drive physics kinda stink. Speeds below 32 and especially 30 are not good. 34 and 36, they're practically DD-ish from the handful of good skiing V-drives out there.

 

I think you're definitely on the right track looking for family-friendly Direct Drives. Just be sure you consider the best/most versatile one ever built, even if it is older.

[jjackkrash]

It is tough to beat a purpose built DD and a cheap pontoon boat to use as a dock on a public lake. My folks have a toon and we have the ski boat and it works out great when we want to head out with a bigger crew for the day on a public lake. Just throwing out options.

 

Oh, and 206 is a little smaller but a much better wake than a 216.

 

[Johnseed]

I would second the Malibu Sunsetter. I have spent the past 20 years skiing the course behind an 18' SeaRay Bowrider and last September we finally made the switch to a DD. I picked up a 2002 Sunsetter with a Diamond hull and the difference is remarkable. The center bump is bigger than say my friend's 08' Nautique but overall it is very skiable for a boat of that size. The Sunsetters are also better suited for public water as they have more freeboard on the sides and bow than a 'standard' tournament boat. I would also add that for a DD they seem to ride pretty decently in public water chop. We added PP Stargazer and it is shaping up to be a rather nice boat for us.

[Dysco]

I've attempted to slalom behind both an x11 and x15 on "slalom" mode wake.

Im no wake snob and will ski behind almost anything im offered. Bottom line, NOPE.

Can you slowly cross the wake? Sure, but cutting across is really not an option and quite dangerous if someone not fully in control hit it. They are boarding boats and work as designed.

 

[escmanaze]

The answer to your question is super obvious and the answer is malibu sunsetter lxi. You mentioned trying to use the search function. If you search for sslxi, you will find all the posts and realize that the sslxi has a following that is absolutely cult-like, and it's all people in exactly your shoes.

 

And yes, those wakes will be WAY more enjoyable than your current boat. You absolutely won't go wrong with an sslxi, but don't take my word for it, do your searches and you'll discover all the folks in the cult and they can educate you on all the nitty gritty details.

 

P.S. sometimes a search in google renders better results than the actual BOS search bar, so consider that option as well.

 

[hemlock]

@UWSkier @johnseed @escmanaze , are absolutely spot on.

The Sunsetter is, and will be to this day the best crossover boat for that young family that wants to slalom ski awesome wakes, trick, jump, or wakeboard. And it is big enough to hold people in the boat comfortably. It's also super easy to work on since you have the room to manage the basic maintenance of a boat.

However, it's difficult to buy one because no one wants to let them go. :)

Find one, and you won't regret it, find one similar... you won't regret it either.

 

Side note: ski boats that steer with a rudder are just... well... so much fun!

[jpwhit]

100% agree with the early 2000's Sunsetter LXI with the diamond hull. But they are getting on the old side and are hard to find. Still a good choice if you're someone that likes working on, maintaining, and fixing up your boat. If you're not, then it may not be the best choice unless you find one that is already in very good condition.

 

I owned a 1996 Four Winns 18' Horizon RS I/O with the 5.7L engine for a lot of year. I also installed Perfect Pass on that boat. That was a great boat and I learned to ski the course behind it. Someone told me that boat was actually tested and written up in waterski magazine as one of the few IO with a good ski wake at 30mph and above. We also had a fly high monkey bar on it, which is a sort of very lightweight tower. It ended up being an outstanding crossover boat too, because it had a good intermediate wakeboard wake at slower speeds. I sold that boat and bought a Ski Nautique 200 when my girls started skiing for UNC. The 200 certainly had a better wake, but interestingly neither me or my daughters buoy count went up immediately after getting the 200. My point is that some I/O can have a pretty good wake, but it varies widely and doubt you'll be able to find info for a specific model. The wakes do tend to be different; the I/O will have 2 separated wakes at slalom speed. The DD will almost feel like a very wide single wake to someone that is accustomed to an I/O.

 

My recommendation is to make friends with someone with a descent model DD and get a little experience behind it yourself. My other advice, find a way to get on a course. I really wish I'd done that about 20 years sooner than I did......

 

[gthalgott]

Thanks for all of the information and opinions. I have done a little bit of looking for LXI's and the few that I have seen for sale in rough shape and/or apparently plated in precious metals (if the asking price is any indication)!

 

I wonder if, now that kids summer sports, pools, etc are open, used boat prices will come back towards reality. One can hope...

[oldjeep]

Yeah, the problem with SS LXI is that they have not made them in a really long time. My inlaws had one before they bought a response, and they are marginally larger than a response but still not the kind of boat you are going to put 5 people in and spend the day on a large lake. It's all tradeoffs, personally a skiable V-drive works for me but the under 30mph performance is an issue for teaching kids.

[6balls]

Sunsetter. Not only for the skiing but the driving/handling will be other worldly compared to a stern drive. Safer too with the prop under the boat.

An older cc 206 is ok too but Sunsetter is fantastic as mentioned many times zbove

[escmanaze]

Yes. With the cult, comes the cult prices as well.

 

Good luck.

[oldjeep]

If you really want a unicorn, try to find a Malibu FXI.

Basically a direct drive vtx hull. Direct drive skiing with enough freeboard to be on a bigger lake.

 

[gthalgott]

Just watched an old promo video for the FXI. That looks incredible.

[UWSkier]

https://denver.craigslist.org/boa/d/elizabeth-2000-malibu-sunsetter-lxi-21/7342210572.html

 

This is an unbelievable deal in the covid market if it's real.

[GregHind]

For what you are describing I’d look at a 2012 to 2016 Malibu response txi. They work well with 5 people and some gear plus the slalom wake is awesome even at kid speeds. Get a tower with racks if you need more storage

[gthalgott]

Well, if it was real, it's now gone!

 

How does Response TXI handle chop/rough water?

[braindamage]

I have owned both a sunsetter Lxi and Now own a ‘12 response TXi. The TXi doesn’t handle chop well, lacks a lot of creature comforts of the Sunsetter, not as much freeboard, easily chili dips on even the smallest wakes if someone is in the bow, interior isn’t as plush… After 2 summers my wife has finally stopped pointing these things out.

 

I bought my SSLXI when I had a young family that wanted to boat all day, teach the kids to ski, wakeboard, and yes (gasp!) tube while allowing a great slalom wake for me. It is an awesome boat. Keep looking, they come up online but go very quickly so be prepared to move.

[Skiphreak]

https://nh.craigslist.org/boa/d/laconia-2000-malibu-sunsetter-ski-boat/7340007683.html

 

Price not ideal, especially without a trailer but…

 

 

 

 

[braindamage]

@Skiphreak i think that isn’t an LXi. Not as plush or as good a ski wake.

[Skiphreak]

@braindamage different hull than LXi?

[braindamage]

@Skiphreak yes, the LX has the SV23, the LXI has the SV23 diamond, which gives a better ski wake according to the Malibu forums. I’ve never personally skied the LX.

That year (not sure how many others) also had a stepped transom, which effectively make the boat ski like it was 12” shorter, which also improves the wake.

[Wayne]

@Skiphreak and @braindamage there were 3 models of the Sunsetter in that era. Sunsetter, Sunsetter LX and Sunsetter LXI. The Sunsetter LXI was only on the Diamond hull. The Sunsetter LX was only on the SV23 hull (referred to as the “wake” hull in later years). However the Sunsetter was an oddball and depending on the year it could have been on either hull. The 2002 Sunsetter was on the Diamond hull. It was the only year Malibu did that. Essentially they shortened the Sunsetter LXI a foot but kept the same running surface. When you look at a Sunsetter LXI it has a step in the hull before the transom, the step doesn’t exist on the Sunsetter.

 

I had a 2002 Sunsetter I agree it was slightly less luxurious than the LXI but was a great slalom boat. Regardless they are unicorns now.

 

To the OP @gthalgott while this site is very slalom centric and v-drives get ostracized I would give used Malibu 20 LSVs and VTXs a look. The VTX could be optioned with the Diamond hull and the 20 LSV came standard with it. Coming from a stern drive it would still feel like a huge improvement in wake quality to your family.

[Jmoski]

When you go to test drive a boat, bring your ski gear (including a rope) and test ski the wake while you are at it.

[braindamage]

@Wayne malibu used the same SV23 Diamond hull on all SSLXI’s from ‘99-‘04. I believe all years have the stepped hull. Any of these years are great.

 

‘02-‘04 sunscape V-drives also have the same hull, though sometimes they are labeled as VLX in the wild. My sister has an ‘02 and it’s a good skier. Waaay better than an I/O but not as good as a Sunsetter Lxi

[Wayne]

@braindamage I agree. I might have muddied the water with all the different models of the Sunsetter. LXI was on a single hull design. The others varied.

[Spencer_Shultz]

@gthalgott i say this as someone who had some awesome summers on a Nautique 211. Crossover boats aren’t the same.

If your kid is just starting to wakeboard, get a true ski boat and do an extended pylon. They don’t need a massive wake to start anyway.

[sandlakeskier]

Look at a 1997 or newer 205 dd with a tower or you can get one from new dimension and have it mounted. Then you get an open bow along with the original x-star hull. The ski wake is a bit harder but still plenty skiable plus it’s 3 event approved. If you throw a couple of 750 sacks on each side of the engine box then you get a great wakeboard wake too and if you get a shaper then you can surf it pretty easy too

[Clydesdale]

Malibu I-ride is worth looking at if you see one. Pretty decent slalom tug for a x over, and has plenty of space and freeboard for public lakes.

[oldjeep]

An Iride is a sunsetter lx hull

[gthalgott]

This is great information. I appreciate all of it. Hopefully something decent will pop up soon.

[Fatroll]

Its easier to wakeboard a direct drive than it is to slalom a V-drive. Plus, smaller wakes for wakeboarding promote better technique for beginners developing skills such as carve to the wake, pop, landing, riding switch, etc without violent crashes from big wakes. I had a 2003 Nautique 206 that crossed over very well. Slalomed in 38 off, and wakeboarded well when sacked up. Footed well too.

 

[Vernon Reeve]

We've had better luck with a 2003 Malibu Response Lxi than the Sunsetter Lxi. Granted, the Sunsetter has more room, but the response has a better slalom wake. It also has a better surf wake (groan) because you can attach a wedge further to the back of the Response. The Sunsetter has a cutout at the back so the wedge didn't work as well. Also, the Response turns a nice tight turn and is easier to maneuver and can do bat turns. The tower on my Response only weights 40 lbs. Advantages of direct drive, is better speed control, better visibility for wakeboarding since the front stays down, and easier to get into after skiing because the ski platform goes all the way across and is at water level. Plus no prop to worry about when swimming back there. The advantage of stern drive I/O's is it's easier to steer when backing up, and you can raise the prop for shallow water or when pulling up to put it on the shore.

[gthalgott]

I appreciate all of the comments and insights that everyone here gave me. I have acquired a 2005 Air Nautique 206 (with the small ballast) that is in very good condition with 350 hours. I probably overpaid as it seems like every boat these days is priced high, but the kids aren't getting any younger! We haven't been able to get it on the water yet, but everyone is excited to ski behind a real ski boat. Again, thanks for all of the good information.

[skimtb]

^^^. Nice job. Those are hard to find, I looked for a while 5-8 years ago. I swear they must have only made 5 a year…. You should be happy. Make sure to report back. Enjoy summer.

[Hallpass]

No experience with X9. 216 will meet needs of family as you described them and be better than the boat you have. Safer for watersports as well, IMO. Ski it before you buy. My $.02 Edit. Nevermind. Just saw you bought a 206. Nice boat. Enjoy!

 

[jjackkrash]

206 is a very solid boat. Great choice.

[slow]

Nautique DD’s from that era are awesome.

[robmollysilverlake]

@gthalgott Congrats on the new boat, let's see some pictures!!

[rimodico]

Congratulations on the boat! something that was overlooked is that you CAN surf with DD, good catch specially for your son that only likes to swim between brother's sets

[gthalgott]

Got it out this weekend. Very different operating experience. In some ways was easier; in other ways required more focus/attention. I'm sure that it will get easier with time. Got the Perfect Pass figured out, which is pretty cool. Overall, I'm very eased so far. Older boys thought the slalom wake was legit.