Butterfield’s C85 Review

[Bruce_Butterfield]

So I have about 15 sets on the C85 and am sharing my thought and opinions for what its worth to any other skiers.

 

I am 195lbs and ski at 34mph, but opted for the XL even though I’m smack in the middle of the L range on the Denali chart. There are 2 reasons for this: First I have long held the opinion that if you are close to the border of sizes, a larger ski will provide more margin for mistakes and generally be easier to ski on. While a smaller ski may be more “agile”, there is rarely any significant downside to going up a size. Second, I have had lower back problems for a number of years and I was worried that the deepwater starts on a 65” ski would be torture on my back. I did ride an early prototype of the C75 in a Large and the starts were sketchy on my back and is the primary reason I never did try the production C75. Lots of PT and lower back exercises over the winter have put my back problems to rest for the time being, so it was time to give the C85 a shot.

 

When I got the C85, I put it next to my current ski, a 68” Goode 9970 and compared widths. Even at 65”, the XL C85 is significantly wider than the Goode from the forebody all the way to the tail. My back immediately felt better. With that knowledge, and after the first set, I could have easily ridden the L and been fine, but I’m still glad I went with the XL.

 

I typically try at least 1-2 skis every year and have ridden a decent number of the earlier Denalis. Each one of those had its quirks – and yes most of them were prototypes with the “Hey let’s try this and see what happens” type features. Most of the early skis created the impression on the gate pullout of “Ok, this is going to be different”. Some of those skis turned out to be pretty good and others not so much. The C85 is a different animal. Some of the best attributes of early models, but without the quirks, and is just plain easy to ride.

 

So what is different about this ski? I learned to ski in the old days where you turned the buoy as hard as you could and held on – it was a tug of war against the boat. Today’s beast engines and ZO make that style a losing proposition, but you still have to get angle out of the buoy. With most skis its hard to consistently find that Goldilocks zone of a lot of angle that you can hold on to, but not too much that you give it all back through or right after the wakes. With my prior ski, if I got a really good offside turn, I would take a massive hit and just be able to hang on, or the ski would not turn enough to get the angle I wanted and head downcourse. My on side I have the bad habit of cranking the shoulders and turning the ski, but only to give it back at the wakes – if I can hang on out of the turn. The C85 is really good at NOT overturning – it turns and progressively builds angle in a manner that mortal skiers can hold on to. Virtually every other ski company has touted this feature in their newest ski, but the C85 actually delivers it.

 

I think the best description of the turns is that its like a high bank turn at Daytona. The ski simply “sticks” to the water without any hint of blowing the tail, skipping out, or overturning. At the completion of the turn, the ski is right there still underneath me ready to go vs almost every other ski that would have sent me out the front or back.

 

Another archaic, but still valid concept, is that of “space in front of the buoy”. Some of the early Denalis were really good at creating space, but not consistently. With the way the C85 turns smoothly with angle I can hold on to, I can create more space in front of the next buoy than any ski I have ridden since the introduction of ZO.

 

I have not yet taken a “hit” on this ski that my 59 yo body has regretted. With other skis, those regrettable hits would happen several times a set if not several times a pass. (Yes, I believe part of this is that I upsized to the XL). Since I’m not taking hits, it is much easier to stay tall out of the turn and achieve/maintain solid body positon through the wakes.

 

Settings…….Surprisingly this ski is quite sensitive to binding position. On most skis, a 1/8” move is noticeable but subtle. On the C85, a 1/8” move changes the ski’s performance significantly. From “stock” of 28 7/8”, back 1/8 the ski felt very draggy, and forward 1/8 the turns were very inconsistent, so the binding sweet spot is fairly narrow. YMMV.

 

For fin settings, I started at “stock” and the ski worked really well, but the onside wasn't quite there. I tried Cord’s longer/shallow setup and was inconsistent. My style has always favored shorter/deeper settings so this wasn't surprising. After sending some video to the Adams, I went a little longer and a little shallower and the ski now turns more symmetrically and smoother than I do. I may adjust very slightly from here, but this setup is darn good.

Current settings

28 7/8

6.930

2.490

0.850

7 deg

 

Bottom line…..the C85 may not be the best ski I have ever ridden, but it is definitely in the top 4. This ski Rocks!

 

[VONMAN]

@Bruce_Butterfield Great review! And now I want one, after I told my wife no new ski this year.

[wawaskr]

@Bruce_Butterfield how would you describe the comparison between your 9970 and the C85?

[Alberto Soares]

@Bruce_Butterfield - Great to hear that, too bad the $ exchange rate is terrible for me, guess will have to stay a little longer on my 75.

[Cent]

Nice review. Thank you.

[The_MS]

Watch @Horton copy and paste

[DW]

Thanks for the excellent review.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@wawaskr I rode the 9970 for a year and it is definitely a top notch ski. It behaves like the “traditional” ski with hard turns and a lot of load to make it work. When I get behind I can crank a turn and usually recover but it’s easy to overdo the turn. On the c85 it’s really hard to overdo the turns - put lots of pressure on it to turn and it carves and sticks where the traditional ski will bury the tip to turn or dig a hole with the tail.

 

If I was 20 years younger it was fine but some of the “hits” I took earlier on the 9970 had me running for the ice pack after skiing. The C85 is much smoother and more consistently generates the angle I want.

[dchristman]

I think @Bruce_Butterfield has described the property that makes the ski so awesome for me - hard to overturn, but yet it magically gets super angle and speed off the ball even if you do overturn. I have habitually overturned my onside. I used to need to remember my key to ski at the next ball to avoid the consequences. I have not had to think about that at all since starting the season with the c85. If I do happen to overturn, the ski just keeps moving and allows me to get to the next ball relatively early even if I'm in bad shape. If I don't overturn it's even better. When I watch my videos, it looks like magic is happening! At a tournament the last weekend the boat judge commented "Wow! I didn't know you were a slalom skier!" ... and he was serious! (tricks has always been more my event).

 

We didn't get started skiing until June and I have already passed where I have stalled out the last several years at the end of September. 4@28/34 on any ski, any size, very rarely getting all the way through the pass. Now I'm getting through 28 and working on 32 off and I fully expect that's going to happen soon, and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic. Thanks @adamhcaldwell and @AdamCord !

[RichardDoane]

I ordered a fresh c85 as a father's day present to myself, and it arrived today, just in time for 4 rounds at Hilltop this weekend. I'm fortunate to be able to have one of the "adams" watch and give feedback of adjustments between rounds. I'll keep notes and do a "Zappy's Denali c85 review" next week, that way @Horton will have 2 versions to copy/paste for all of us to enjoy.

[Horton]

@RichardDoane that would be awesome

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield it's interesting that you went all the way to the XL. At 180 I was contemplating breaking out my small again. When I told Cord that my water is about 90° he speculated that it would not be awesome.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Horton just give yourself another 10 years and you’ll be looking for the XL too :D

 

I assumed that the widths would be similar to the c75 proto I rode in L. Even with my back healthier now that size would have caused more stress than I want. Fortunately the c85 is considerably wider and I could easily ride an L. But again I think there is very little downside to the bigger ski unless I was still chasing buoys at 41.

[OldboyII]

Are there any promocode for baller? ?

[Than_Bogan]

@OldboyII With Denali such a small company, I think it's more like "Is there a price increase so that they can meet demand after all of these positive reviews?" :)

[OldboyII]

Understand! Asked because there is a box for discount code in order form ?