Your Current Personal Best versus your Early Personal Best

[swbca]

PB Trajectory with Age

There are few skiers in every region that have been skiing in tournaments for a lifetime. Measured by tournament best performances, some ski better with more years and some don't. Very Few skiers had great skis a few decades ago. Those who got lucky on a ski selection and had effective ski tuning skills had the best performances, making it harder for them to improve scores 20 or 30 years later.

 

What's your story ? There are many variables to explain every lifetime skier's performance trajectory.

If your current performance is less than before, where did the performance go ? Was it "the trifecta of aging" or something more specific | fragile orthopedic conditions | added weight | less access to practice | other

 

Deduct 1 Pass from your current PB for every 2mph difference in speed with your old PB

[swbca]

At age 21, I got lucky on ski selection plus some tuning on a wood Obrien Mach-1. I got the ski from Leroy Burnett, the 1966 boys slalom sensation who was running 36off at 36mph, outperforming the top men in many tournaments. My tournament PB on the Mach-1 was 1@36off/36mph in 1967. 20 years later my tournament PB was about the same, stuck on 1.5 at 38off/34 mph and never changed till I quit. Now 30 more years later I have had 1/2 of a season trying to start over, but didn't have access to a course, so I ski like **** and don't know what will happen in the next couple of years. That's why I posted this pole, to see what others have done.

[Than_Bogan]

More accurately, I'm down about a half pass from 30 to 50. Naturally, I've declined more than that, but equipment has almost made up for it.

[lakeaustinskier]

Yes and No. I'm better than I was in my 20's but over the last 3-4 years I've had to take a step back and fix all my bad technique. No longer can I just muscle and crank the crap out of the turn - my body can't take it. I've actually lost a pass working with Trent F. but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel! Much easier and lighter and more efficient and my body loves what I'm doing.

[jercrane]

My story is kind of a cheat I'll admit.

 

First time I skied a course was in college in the mid 90's. Grew up freeskiing and didn't even know competitive skiing was a thing until just before college. I had zero coaching and really had no clue what I was doing. My college PB was barely getting through 15 off at 36mph and the only way I was able to do that was pure grit.

 

After college I had no access to skiing for close to 20 years. I free skied like twice a year. Not one single set in a course though.

 

In 2016 I finally got a proper boat, upgraded my ski established some access to a course and leaned in hard to the sport. Slalom is my golf now. I've been getting coaching at various spots several times a year, learning as much as possible. Got on my C85 and got it pretty well dialed in.

 

This past summer I got around 5 ball at 32off (34mph) and running the pass felt totally doable. My current stretch goal is to get through 35off before I turn 51. 3 more seasons ...

[6balls]

Peaked in my mid to late 30's but that had to do with preserved physicality and some actual coaching and thought. As a non-coached hack pulling hard on the line I was running 32 off at 36 and an occasional 35 off at 36, then running 35 off at 34 and some 38's. Some coaching early on I believe would have made a world of difference for me--maybe cudda run 38 more often, maybe a more legit chance at 39. Had a lot of fun.

[JackQ]

My personal best was two years ago at 65 years of age. Since then slowing down to 32mph, muddies the comparison as there is not a 6 buoy advantage particularly at extreme shoreline. Up to that point I was gaining about 1/2 buoy a year which doesn’t sound significant but considering many lose buoys in their 60’s it was a difficult endeavor.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

My story is kind of a long one. Freeskied for years when I was a kid and got on the slalom course for the first time at age 20. Fortunately I had good coaching for my first 3 years and I was not shy about making fin adjustments when the adjustment tools were a hacksaw and file. If I remember correctly I went from never skiing a course to running 32off/36mph in 3 summers. Being young, strong and athletic played a major role.

 

I had a 36mph PB of 3@39 in my mid 30’s, stayed in Open Division for several years in my later 30’s. In my early to mid 40’s I was running 39 about 50% in both practice and tournaments and had a record tournament PB of 1 ½@41.

 

The implementation of ZO has definitely set my skiing back. I’m about 195 lbs and use to rely on strength in the old days, but age and ZO both work against me.

 

Now as I approach 60, I haven’t run 38 in either practice or a tournament in several years. The downhill slide after 50 has definitely increased despite multiple cross-training and fitness regimens. I did come close to running one tournament 38 this year due partially to riding the best ski I’ve been on in a long time.

 

I have had 3 surgeries in the last 3 years, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that I’m done with my 1,000,000 mile overhaul and can continue to ski with only “normal” aches and pains.

 

[ski6jones]

This is almost an interesting pole. So many things impact performance over the years.

I think ski selection and tuning are way down in the noise as compared with regular access to a course, injuries, proper fitness and coaching. I've been pretty serious about skiing for the last about 20 years and have improved over time, although PBs come slower as you get better. At some point your ability to continue improving runs into the physical limitations of age. I'm pretty sure I'm close to that point now at 60.

[The_MS]

If you can stay healthy, you can get better. I came off of 2 years of knee, thyroid and a few other issues that made it hard to maintain. Skiing went to crap but 2 healthy years since and I’m back to where I was and maybe a bit better.

As long as I can ski better then @Horton all is good.

[Fastguy888]

I envy those who have been able to find the limiting factor to their current progression to be skill or physicality.

 

In 1998 on Sac State Ski team we all skied at 34 mph, I don't think they had speed based scoring back then. Trying to break into the team I never completed a full pass; Every chance I had on the course (about 1 set per week for 4 months a year) I went for a PB and score that would be good enough to get me on the traveling team and got PB3@22 Off 34MPH about 10 times. Ironically I probably didnt have the experience to complete a pass at 15Off34MPH back then. I am every so grateful for those limited sets, but it was water time that limited my progression.

 

Took a 22 year break never skiing, and now at 44 years old back at it with more course time than ever getting about a set a month in Winter and skiing course weekly in summer. Very happy to have gone from not skiing in 22 years to 4@15Off 32MPH and easily clearing 6@15Off 30MPH in less than 20 sets over the last 22 years.

[MISkier]

I don't have decades of tournament scores, so I wasn't sure what to select. My progression goes like this:

 

1974 - 1991 - A bunch of free skiing. Slalom skiing exclusively from 1978 onward.

 

1991 - First time ever seeing a slalom course in person and first time skiing behind an inboard boat. Took some lessons and could eventually run 34/-15 with hand driving at age 26.

 

1997-1998 - Some course skiing on the Grand River behind an I/O. Ran some passes at 36/-15. Attempted some 36/-22. Speeds per I/O speedometer, so not likely to be legit.

 

1999-2004 - Free skiing for only a couple weeks each summer. All behind I/O or outboard.

 

2004 - Bought first inboard. Some free skiing about 1-2 times per week in the summer.

 

2005 - Bought Goode 9100, which replaced my circa-1980 EP Super 2. Some free skiing about 1-2 times per week in the summer.

 

2007 - Returned to the course and took 2 lessons in late summer. First exposure to PerfectPass. Did not run any passes. Researched ski clubs in Michigan and contacted some.

 

2008 - Joined first ski club and participated in their informal ski league night, which was run like a tournament and used speed control. Could eventually run 34/-28 occasionally by 2010 and had experienced ZO frequently.

 

2010 - Skied in first tournament (after Nationals, so 2011 ski year) at age 45. Best score of that event for me was 5@34/-22 (yes, a Rico). By the end of the 2011 season, had run 34/-28 and had a PB of 1@34/-32. Ranking average for 2011 ski year (first full tournament season) was 80.50. Bought second inboard to get ZO boat.

 

2015 - Attempted 36 mph in a tournament for first time at age 50. Best score at that event for me was 3.5@36/-28.

 

2019 - Ran 34/-32 for the first time in a tournament. Ranking average for that ski year was 88.83 (no 36 mph scores included), which is the highest I've achieved so far.

 

2021 - Ran 36/-28 for the first time in a tournament. (Edited: just checked, my 36 mph only scores gave me a ranking in OM this ski year of 88.50)

 

For me, time on the water and access to a course on a private lake made the most difference. Equipment was also a factor moving from the EP to the Goode, but not as much of a factor after that initial move. I feel fortunate that my scores are still trending somewhat upward and my level of injuries is limited. But, I am not really where I should be - or want to be.

[MichaelGoodman]

Tried skiing in a course for the first time at 30 years old was able to make full passes on

first set not sure of the speed probably was 30 mph. Set course up following spring

and started skiing fairly regularly when conditions would allow (big public lake lots of

wind and boats and could not ski before 9 AM of after 7 PM ran first 32 off in a tournament when I dropped down to 34 MPH at 35 years old (ran it in a tournament way before in practice due to better drivers and conditions) Ran 32 off in tournament at

least one set for the next 20 years or so. Took me until age 55 to run 35 off only did it once and it was in practice but with Z0 and a rated driver. Best tournament score is 3.5 at

35 off. Now I am 65 ran a bunch of 5 at 32 off last year did not run it at 34 MPH ran a best of 4 at 35 off 32MPH. Never had any real coaching for the most part which I think really hurt especially early on when I formed tons of bad habits.

[o2bnMaine]

Hmm. I didn't know how to answer this one. I hit 3.5 @ 35-off @ 36mph ~15 years ago the only time I ever attempted 35-off. Today, I'm at 4 @ 35-off @ 34.2mph. The difference is I can do 32-off much much smoother than the one time I slammed my way through (and completed!) the ONLY 32-off pass at 36mph I ever attempted. The other day, I got 5 of 6 32-off passes; albeit at 34.2 instead of 36. Today, I know I am a much better skier than I was back then.

 

So! How does speed factor into PBs?!

[swbca]

@o2bnMaine The poll question at the top of this thread suggested this answer to your question.

 

"Deduct 1 Pass from your current PB for every 2mph difference in speed with your old PB"

 

Its not a perfect answer because 2mph difference in speed and 1 line-length difference are not perfect equivalents in difficulty. However AWSA Class C tournament rules that allow a skier to ski above his division's maximum speed treat 2mph as 1 rope length increment (6pts).

 

In your case your PB now at 34mph is about the same as it was at 36mph ~15 years ago, so looks like you lost about 1 pass over those years.

 

As noted its not a perfect measurement of better or worse.

[ETskier]

I was never great. From 02 - 09 I consistently ran 32 and got a few at 35 in M4 in tournaments. Then ZO came about. I didn't adapt well, then got older. Now in M7 and going slower, only run 32 once in a while in practice. Got 4 at 32off last fall, then retired from tournaments.

[Jared]

I was running 28@36 about 10 year ago, skiing 3-4 days / week, 4-5 months / year.

 

Had kids, my course is 2 hours out of town, dropped to averaging 1 ski day/week 3-4 month/year. got stuck around 4 ball at 22 off almost every pass, only getting 10-15 days / year in the course wasn't enough.

 

Last year told the wife and kids that I am probably close to slowing down to 34, and I'd like to see how far I can make it before I do. So we went harder, I think I got about 40-45 days in the course, probably averaged 3 days/week. by July ran 28 off almost every set, by august made it through 32.

 

We've had a pretty brutal spring in Alberta so far (it snowed again on Monday night this week), so I haven't really gotten going yet. I was planning to go hard again this year, hoping to get through 32 consistently and make some progress on 35.

[6balls]

Picked up the sport late, got to 2@35 off at 36 and ran 35 in practice. Slowed to 34 mph and tourney PB 2.5@39--around 4 in practice. This was roughly age 40. 4 surgeries between 40-49 (3 of 'em spine for 4 total spine procedures) and I'm basically out--can no longer ski or do lots of other things I like requiring physicality. Last power-lifting record (still stands) was also 10 years ago. Crappy decade from alpha to can't do it--pretty humbling.

[Slalom.Steve]

@6balls always be alpha in my mind

[LeonL]

I can't put my finger on the specifics of decline due to age, but I have no physical problems to blame. It's kind of mysterious; slower reaction time, less flexibility?

[swbca]

@LeonL I think there are some parallels to snow skiing with age which may shed some light on your mystery.

 

35off and beyond is like Mogul skiing, requiring greater strength and much faster more extreme body mechanics when compared to "cruising" long sweeping turns in either sport. My lifetime snow skiing peers still snow ski with great form on steep groomed hills or 12" of powder in their 70's where technique is the principal requirement. But none of can keep up on steep mogul runs, so we don't try. In brief, in both sports technique endures while athleticism declines with age.

 

35 off mentioned above is arbitrary, some guys can cruise 32off with technique alone. Other older guys may have cruise techniques that carry them to 22off or 35off.

[rfa]

Roughly

Started skiing at 40

50 - late 50s: PB 2@35off/34mph

65 - present (68): PB 2@35off/32mph

Looks like a full pass lower

[6balls]

@rfa pretty nice skiing there on the late pick up

[lpskier]

@rfa Rui, you PBed when you got married! Please kiss your bride for me.

[Deep11]

Started in slalom course at age about 15 - got to 18m at 34mph (hand driven behind an old Bosch) before went off to uni. Did a few yrs ski racing whilst at uni due to the social side and availability. Gave up all skiing for about 15yrs while started and developed my business.

Took it up again at age 40 bashing away at 18m 36mph.

Realised at age 45 that didnt need to ski 36mph (Too much testosterone at our site!)

Became a slalom “student” and sought out the right coaches for me to develop the correct technique at 34mph.

Progressed until the season before covid, at 55, I was running 12m every set, ran 11.25 twice and had a practice pb of 2@10.75 (39off)

The covid yrs and lack of time on the water have messed with my skiing and I didn’t look at 11.25 during them - this year!

[ETskier]

@rfa so you're 25 years older age 68 and still at the same level, only at 32mph. That's awesome! Most of us at that age can only only hope to maintain. Kudos.

[AustinGraham]

@swbca you knew my uncle? Leroy Burnett? I’m trying to find any information and or photos of him since he has passed. We lost everything in a fire.

[swbca]

I only met him one time when I went to his home to pick up a new Mach-1 ski. I wish had more for you. He was a slalom god in his teenage youthful world record ski performances and as ski technician that helped the LaPoints with their skis.

[jimbrake]

Free-skied until I was 18 then went to Mike Suyderhoud's in 1976. Went from couldn't run anything to running 34 mph long line the first week, then slow progression to best of 5 @ 35 off @ 36 mph in my early 30s and running it a couple times in practice. Then, many Mens 3 and 4 years running a few at 38 at 34 mph, but started running 38 in practice in my early 40s. Then...ZO hit. Since 2008 I have run 35 @34 probably less than ten times. Have been working HARD to learn to ski with ZO all these years and my skiing is improving, but buoy count is not. My only goal is to run 35 again before I have to slow down to 32 mph.

 

Now snow skiing is a different deal for me - about to turn 64 and have been training with a Masters group at Palisades (formerly Squaw Valley) the past two seasons after a knee-pain-imposed racing hiatus since around 2010. I feel like I'm in my 30s on my snow skis - on-piste, off-piste, in slalom, in GS, in Super G, in bumps, in crud. All due mainly to a new knee in 2018 and just being better at working with gravity than a boat.

 

Regardless of sport, my attitude is to "be like a kid", keep learning, from anyone that can help, keep pounding away, enjoy the fight.

[swbca]

@jimbrake with all of those decades of advanced short line Slalom experience, have you ever found a correlation between your weight and your tournament performances?

[jimbrake]

@swbca - sorry for the delayed reply. Wasn't blowing you off, was out of town and relatively disconnected. Like my slalom. Get it? Disconnected? Anyway...

 

Well, in all my years of extreme, advanced, super awesome, really really short line slalom experience (actually it has been "advanced mediocre, mid-length slalom experience") I haven't felt a correlation to weight as much as youth and strength. My senior year of high school when I started in the slalom course I weighed about 185. My first year of college I weighed 192. Right now at a few days short of 64 I weigh 190. My lightest has been 178 and my heaviest has been 200. So, no good weight swings to judge by. I've never been a heavy lifter, but I was athletic, always doing several sports and training, and was generally always in "attack/charge" mode much to my skiing's detriment. Now I'm old athletic, old strong, old flexible, and try to "attack/charge" a little smarter and more measured. Bottom line is I'm way weaker, but hanging in there. THAT is the main reason for my decline in scores, but I still enjoy the effort.