The right and wrong path from wake to ball

[swbca]

The lake is frozen so this is the closest I can get to learning something about skiing in late December without going south.

 

Both skiers are the same height, weight and in the same place in the course - - Offside ball 5, 32off 34mph - - Looking at where the significant force of spray starts in the turn, there is a big difference between these two screen shots.

 

When his video was made, the top skier only had 1 more solid pass to go . . . the bottom skier has 5 more passes before he runs out of rope.

There is absolutely no comparison in skills between the skiers, but both of these skiers are at their off-side turn at 32off 34mph. The pro skier at the bottom was doing a training video for 34mph skiers. Even though the top image is from an old video of me, I still ski with my preturn-and-turn as a single arc starting at the edge change off the wake. I never learned anything different.

 

The top men and women on D3 skis get wide early, then approaching the ball upright and forward on their ski with their final turn starting late and compressed into a very short space .

 

The bottom screen shot shows the final turn at the buoy happening in a very short distance. What's it take to get in this position ? I'm thinking its a necessary change to get into shorter lines.

[6balls]

That is a really complex question needing more than a still shot. Cool that you can rip 32 off, though--sometimes we forget what it takes to run 28, 32, 35, 38 cuz a lot of us can--we are a microcosm of all skiers.

[swbca]

@6balls I figure everyone has a video in their head of Nate Smith standing forward and upright waiting for every ball. He is the most obvious with that positioning before starts his turn. I am trying to understand the benefit of that specific move. When I try to get forward and upright I feel vulnerable. Plus I don't have the spare time to go through that motion like pros I refer too.

[RGilmore]

@swbca

The benefit of the path shown in the bottom image is that the skier has boiled off less speed in the preturn and therefore can snap off a more efficient finish at the ball - resulting the following good things:

 

1) maintaining a more solid connection deeper into the buoy;

 

2) finishing with greater angle and a smoother "hook-up";

 

3) needing less additional speed from the cut to get to the next turn;

 

As always, IMO.

[Horton]

More than anything the difference between these two pictures is multiple generations of ski technology, multiple generations of boat speed control, rope technology, & boat horsepower. Any conclusions taken from comparing these two images is fanciful.

 

The last time I rode a 1980s ski I pretty much felt like that top image and that was behind current a boat and rope. The worst of the current ski designs are amazingly better than the best old skis designs.

[Horton]

Furthermore path from the second wake to the ball is not really what you're seeing those pictures. What you're seeing there is that the modern skier makes an amazing amount more speed from the ball to the wakes and cast out in front of the next ball and is able to arc back much much sooner.

[Drago]

@swbca i’m sorry, but the best thing you can learn is to let go of the past . Skis are kajillion times better ( and are not modified unless someone is in r&d for a living) boats are way, way better, zo zings you through the wake, ropes don’t stretch 3 feet then pull you out of a hole…

Spend your time getting a course to ski in and some coaching. Freeskiing at 39 or whatever is a total waste of gas and time. Comparing video clips that are 3 decades apart is a waste of time.Find a good, safe, full body workout for the winter and get psyched for next year!

[swbca]

@Drago @Horton Thanks for your comments. I get that skis have changed. I am skiing on a D3 ION but trying to get rid of my habits of the past. The photos only showed the results of my wrong setup for the ball versus the right setup. Comparing the difference was informative to me of some things to change from my mental and muscle memory of the sport.

[Mastercrafter]

@swbca I don't have much to offer as far as advice but I do wonder, with your newer ski, boat, rope, etc., are you still skiing the same path as in the screen grab from the 80's?

[swbca]

@Mastercrafter In our short season, it took the entire summer to get back to basic skiing fitness and competency after such a long layoff. I was starting to focus on the upright and forward approach to the turn when our season ended.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@swbca independent of skis and time, the main difference is the angle the high end skiers get and hold out of the buoy. So in this case, the angle out of 4 ball is much greater for Nate than you. More angle generates more speed from the ball to wake, which turns into more space in front of the next buoy, allowing the skier to backside the ball for lots of angle into the next buoy.

 

That part of slalom theory hasn't changed in 30 years and probably won't change for another 30. The new skis, boats and ropes do change exactly "how" the skier gets that angle.

 

I do agree with several of the others that you have probably spent as much time as you need to comparing old videos to today. Get on a fitness program, get back on the water when it thaws and get some in person coaching.

[swbca]

@Bruce_Butterfield I am considering going down the Rathbun's Ski Paradise in March. Paul Chapin, is my old ski competitor friend and the coach that week. My only concern is a week of skiing after 5 months no skiing. I would have to work harder at on-land ski fitness training, hoping that would be enough. Re the video . . in my lifetime I had never seen a video, except one taken from shore, then found this old VHS when cleaning the basement. It was labelled MURDER SHE WROTE. As ancient as everything from 1985 is, I wouldn't mind having that as a starting point except for the equipment. I remember it all but can't do it all.

[Cam]

Only adding to previous comments.

Get some new video and get online video coaching, I have heard Freddie Winter is good on Givego and I have used @twhisper video coaching a lot cheaper than a ski holiday where you burn out on day 3.

At 70 y/o I am struggling to maintain my scores every year and after a 3 month break it is like a new sport, can't imagine what it might be like after 30 years.

On a lighter note you could go LFF and do a total reboot it might be quicker than unlearning what you know >:)

 

Good luck whatever you do :)

[swbca]

@cam You are right about the good value in the video coaching. And the burn out factor at a school is a risk. I just talked to the Coach that will be at Ski Paradise that week. He is 69 and been a national competitor since he was a teenager. While at the 'ski resort" he says he only runs 4 passes per session twice per day, and takes the 3rd day off. That's about the same as I do skiing at home. He says he has also found a hand taping arrangement so ripped blisters aren't a problem.

 

In all the decades of skiing, I only had a daily ski partner for 2 years because I lived too far away from the other skiers in our area. The week in an Aculpoco ski camp with Gordon Rathbun, a coach and about 12 skiers with mixed ability sounds like a good week. Something to do one time.

 

Instead of changing to LFF (your joke) to escape old habits, I settled for changing to the correct grip last year.

[skierjp]

@swbca definitely go to Ski Paradise. It is on my list to do in the next year or two. Even if you don’t ski every day you will still learn from others. You may even be able to ride in the boat when others are skiing. 5 or 6 of my friends have been there and they all thought it was awesome. Just pace yourself. It is a very relaxed atmosphere not like a traditional ski school.

[DaveD]

@swbca I find it's easier to break old habits early in the season when the body's relearning how to ski. Don't be afraid of early season lessons.

[swbca]

Thanks for all the feedback . Its going to be a long winter

 

[DaveD]

Fresh POW! Who said you couldn't ski this winter?

[Vernon Reeve]

I've heard that to do 35 off, the path needs to change. After the wake, they head in a straighter line to the buoy so they can catch up to the boat and make the turn. Instead of the wide arching path that most do through 32 off. This is why 35 off is so difficult, because it requires a different strategy. Maybe those two photos are showing the difference in skier paths?

[aupatking]

I would make a guess and, from the still shots, it’s all I can do but, watch Robert Hazelwood’ Video instruction here https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/26444/rob-hazelwood-do-you-struggle-with-a-inconsistent-edge-change-why-your-body-position-ruins-your-e. It sounds like your problem is earlier than you think