Boat options

[Guest]

I'm currently in the market for a boat and looks like there's a few options out there that seem to fit what I'm looking for. Looking for some opinions on the boats I've found and what I'm ultimately looking for.

 

Background: I've boated all my life, but mostly behind an I/O. Previously my focus was on wakeboarding, but switched to slalom about 3-4 years ago and have been really enjoying it. I've tried the course a couple of times, but generally do open water slalom. My wife switched with me to slalom and now one of my kids (11yo) is getting into it as well. Last few years I've skied behind 1997-2005 Nautique 196.

 

What I'm looking for: Primarily slalom, but will wakeboard, tube, and hopefully surf. I know slalom and surf are polar opposites in terms of requirements, so surf is definitely more of a nice to have. Needs to have a tower. Needs to be a direct drive so that the skiing isn't compromised.

 

Budget: about $50,000 CAD. Holy smokes boats got much more expensive in last 2 years. Seems like good used boats are 30% to 75% more expensive today than pre-covid.

 

Current options in no particular order (only looking at Direct Drives):

- 2004-2012 MasterCraft x7/197

- 2003-2012 Malibu Sunsetter/Response LXi

- 2003-2012 Malibu Wakesetter/XTi

- 2004-2012 Malibu iRide

- 2004-2012 Supra Launch

- 2004-2012 Moomba Outback/Mobius

- 2004-2009 Nautique 200/206/210

Ideally the newer the better (with low-ish hours), so 2008+ would be nice to have.

fyi, I'm in Canada. Willing to get a boat from anywhere in North America, but slight preference to a boat that's already in Canada, particularly Ontario.

 

Are there any of the boats listed above that I should just cut out of my list due to being a poor slalom boat? So far I've seen a few options for each of the above currently available, but is waiting till the spring going to provide more options?

[6balls]

Probably a response Lxi with a wedge, get a pile of fat sacks and a wake shaper. Unloaded a nice slalom boat, can probably make a decent passenger side surf wake but the bags take up a good bit of space. Get one of the larger surf-boards in surface area to make things easier. Tower is really nice for getting up on a surfboard on the short rope.

[Ronny61]

99-04 Sunsetter LXI with tower, wedge and ballast (will need about 1500-1800 lbs. of ballast in the right places (depends how many peeps you have in the boat) plus wedge to surf...don't bother looking at anything else. I built in a custom 3 pump system with custom bag that is ready to surf in 12 min set up time

Slalom wake is excellent and wakeboard wake is really nice when set up properly with combo of wedge and ballast

 

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=62663

 

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=62680

[Ronny61]

Slalom wake at 34 mph and surf wave 10mph on my 2000 SS LXI

 

[6balls]

I take it back and agree with @Ronny61 dunno where my head was at there!

[markn]

Just FYI, the Nautique from 2004-2009 was not the 200, but the 196. 200 came out in 2010.

206 and 210 models were available .

[SevernRat]

Thanks for the responses. Is there a big difference between the Sunsetter LXi and the Response LXi? I'm assuming the Response has the better ski wake, but is it a noticeable difference? Can you still surf behind a Response?

Seems Sunsetters are in more limited supply at the moment.

[Rednucleus]

Sunsetter is the better all around choice - which is probably why supply is limited

[SevernRat]

Would the MC x7 be comparable to the Sunsetter LXi? Is the x7 surfable?

[Ronny61]

I personally don't think the X7 is comparable to the SS LXI, almost any boat is "surfable" if you add enough weight to it, but you don't want to be in a boat that needs so much weight to get the push that it is easily swamped or feels unsafe. Especially if you are on public waters and there are many other real surf boats creating huge swells everywhere (will depend on your lake situation)

 

The SS LXI is bigger and roomier than the X7, has more storage and a better wake as far as my experience.

 

There are 2 for sale just listed on SIA in the 25k range which is average price for these boats. Leaves you plenty of money to add whatever add-ons you might want and customize it to your personal needs.

Being of limited supply is what will always keep the value of these boats up, especially if you have a nice one with all the bells and whistles.

 

 

[FSSPCat]

LXI > X7, in almost every way.

[teammalibu]

You can always make the wake bigger for rec wakeboard but it’s tough to slalom behind a wakeboard boat!

The Sunsetter has always been the best slalom boat in the bigger boats!

[SevernRat]

And I'm assuming after 2004 (ie. 2005+) that the hull changed and it's no longer a good option? I think I read that the Sunsetter LXi became the iRide in 2005+ but that the hull changed and the skiability of the wake was ruined. Is that accurate?

[SevernRat]

@Ronny61 Yeah, the 2 on SIA are nice, but the age is a bit older than I would have liked. Ideally I'd like something at least 2002+, but maybe that'll be a tough find.

[6balls]

There are some who claim the Malibu VTX on diamond hull is an adequate slalom boat, but is also a very good surf/wakeboard boat. Can't substantiate the slalom aspect and I'm sure the slower and longer the line the worse it is as a slalom boat.

 

The Sunsetter will surprise you--at least it did me. Sitting in it feels big with high freeboard and a use-able open bow, handles and skis small. Decent for barefooting, too.

 

Only 600 hours, man--this is a nice ride:

 

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=62663

 

 

[foxriverat]

Here is a nice one if it's still available not the cheapest but nothing is now days https://daytona.craigslist.org/boa/d/deland-2003-malibu-sunsetter-lxi/7431262504.html

[Ronny61]

@SevernRat....curious what specifically do you like on the 2002-04 years verses the 99-01 model years?

The 04's got the 340 monsoon which is an upgrade over the 325hp but not a night and day difference as long as your propped correctly.

 

2000 and up got the 3 piece back seat which I like over the one piece that the 99 had

2001 got upgraded dash with rocker switches

I'm sure there are a few other small changes with the newer model years but all years will perform equally well as far as wake characteristics, handling, etc.

[KRoundy]

As others have said - you can make a ski boat into a decent wakeboard or surf boat, but you can't make a wakeboard/surf boat into a ski boat. So you need to decide what is most important. If you want to really enjoy skiing, buy a ski boat and you won't regret it. In your list I see three that are boats most here would actually ski behind: Malibu Sunsetter, Malibu Response, and a Nautique 200 (although it has been noted this model did not start until 2010). I've skied behind a iRide and a Wakesetter and well, I can say I did it, but I'm glad that I have a real ski boat.

My encouragement based on what you have written is to buy a water ski boat and avoid the wake boat hulls.

[SevernRat]

Thanks, @foxriverat. I saw that one too. It's sold, unfortunately. It was actually the first one I had looked into a few days ago, but it already had a pending sale at the time.

[SevernRat]

Thanks for your thoughts, @KRoundy. I think you're right. We want a good ski wake first and foremost.

My wife and I talked about it more and I think we're going to keep looking for good options for Sunsetter LXi boats and see what's available and what comes up over the next couple months. We're not necessarily in a rush, but I'd like to have something locked down by end of May.

[SevernRat]

@Ronny61 I suppose I don't have any real good reason for wanting 2002+ except for being slightly newer. Having that said, I would certainly pick an older well kept older model over a less well kept newer model, and hours on the boat/engine matter too.

I definitely like the 3 piece back seat better, as I'd probably turn the middle section into a teak platform to assist with step over. The other "new" features are nice, but none of those yearly changes are necessarily show-stoppers.

[Ronny61]

@SevernRat I like your idea for the teak platform to replace the center seat section, only downside is the price of Burmese Teak now. I planned to build a new teak swim deck for mine and just the teak was going to cost almost 2k...crazy

 

I ended up using "plantation teak" instead and that cost me $330 so a huge difference, it's doesn't have all the same characteristics as the real teak but should work fine if the boat doesn't sit in the water all day, year after year. I have some left over that might be just enough to make that step.

 

If your patient enough and keep your eyes peeled you will find a nice one, and if you ever want any advice on setting it up to surf then hit me up.

[SevernRat]

Thanks, @Ronny61 , appreciate it. Good luck with the new teak swim platform. I'll update here when I've picked something up.

[SevernRat]

Is there a significant difference between the Vortec and the Monsoon? Should I stay away from the Vortec?

[03RLXi]

No and yes. Confusing right! The base block and heads are GM Vortec. It's the induction, exhausts etc that make it a Monsoon version. This might be useful info for you https://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/forums/topic/54345-gonna-ask-a-stupid-question/&page=2

[Ronny61]

@SevernRat The block is the GM vortec, Indmar is the company that converts it to be used in a marine enviroment, and then it is given a name like "325 Monsoon"

Supra and Moomba boats get the same Vortec engine from Indmar and they call it the "325 Assault"

[SevernRat]

ok. I'm asking because I've seen this come up a few times on ads for the SSLXI: "5.7L GM Vortec 310 HP". I'm assuming this is just the 350 Monsoon spec'd to 310HP?

[Ronny61]

yes but I believe the sslxi was 325 hp (my 2000 is) and the 2004 model was upgraded to 340hp. There are some out there that also got the 365hp Hammer Head option

Either way, they are all 5.7L GM Vortec engine blocks

[PurdueSkier]

I have a 2010 response LXI. I love my boat. It has ZO and an open bow which were musts for my family. Open bow is usable for adults and kids when out cruising. It certainly has a bigger slalom wake than a 196, 200, or a new nautique but I think it is comparable to an MC 197. I slalom from 22 off to 38 off at 34 mph and think it's a great wake. I have a wedge and with it down and a couple adults in the boat I can surf without the rope, no other ballast. The more weight the better it gets. Without some serious weight I don't think you could do much other than just ride. I am not sure it would have enough push for any real tricks. I have never tried to really weight it down. Overall it's a great all around boat.

[6balls]

The one I posted from SIA has the 365 hammerhead

[chrislandy]

For that budget you might be able to find a high hours 2014/15 Mastercraft Prostar, much better than the 197. Plenty of scope to add ballast if needed and you can surf one, not comparable to a proper surf boat, but it can be done.

 

There are examples over here in the UK that have 2k+ hours on them so they can take the hours if looked after.

[jpwhit]

A lot of us feel for you because we've been on the search for good crossover boat. I owned a 1997 Four Winn's Horizon RS for many years and that turned out to be a descent crossover boats. It was one of the few I/O boats that was reviewed by waterskiing magazine as a reasonably acceptable slalom boat. I actually learned to ski the course behind that boat. It was also a pretty good wakeboard boat. It did have a 5.7L engine and perfect pass which helped a lot. I grew boating on a large public lake a lot and this is where I used that boat.

 

Unfortunately, or actually fortunately, joining a private ski club in 2010, when my daughters started skiing on the UNC waterski team, made it clear that a crossover boat wasn't going to keep cutting it for me. The club had a 196 which really raised the bar for me on what I viewed as an acceptable slalom wake. Hence, I'm compelled to ask the following.

 

You're currently skiing behind a 97-05 196, which has an outstanding slalom wake, especially at 32mph and faster. You haven't said what speed you currently ski, which could make a fair amount of difference. So, a key question for you IMO, is will you be happy with a lesser slalom wake than the 196? Will you only be skiing behind the new boat, or will you still be skiing behind a 196 at times and be comparing the slalom wakes? You've effectively set a high bar.

 

If you're not willing to compromise relative to the 196 slalom wake, as other stated here, the only boat that "may" be close to viable is the pre-2005 Sunsetter LXI. But I've never skied behind that boat to say how the slalom wake compares to the 196. Not that I didn't try, when I was on my search for a good crossover boat 10 years ago, I tried for a couple years to buy the crossover unicorn (pre-2005 Sunsetter LXI) without any luck. Maybe someone here that is familiar with the 196 and SSLXI can say how the slalom wakes compare at slower and faster speeds. My only real experience with SSLXI, is one of my buddies at the ski club owned one and still regularly talks about how much he regrets that he sold that boat. And that if he came across one, he'd buy it without a second thought.

 

[SevernRat]

@jpwhit Thanks for the thoughtful response. I ski at 32/33 mph. I still use the full rope length, as I'm still learning, but feel I'm picking it up fairly quickly. I definitely know I'm more of a limitation than the boat atm. I don't think I'd ever compete, and likely won't ski the course all that often (just open water ski). My wife skis at about 28 mph, so she's likely to be more affected that I with a crossover boat.

 

It's possible I'll still occasionally ski behind a 196, but it would likely be infrequent enough that any strong comparisons would be muted. I certainly know that I've been treated well in the first few years of my journey with this.

 

There's also a ski club near me that uses brand new Prostars, and that has been a blast too, although I'd say the 196 wake was better, but that is likely more about familiarity than anything else.

 

It's very possible that in a few years with my daughter getting more competitive in the sport (I hope), that I may decide to go the more pure route, but I definitely think for now I'd like to keep our options open while also maintaining a really good wake for slalom.

 

I kinda hate that to really enjoy both slalom and surfing that we're stuck in this weird place where buying 2 expensive boats is almost a necessity.

[Vernon Reeve]

I have a 2003 Malibu Response LXI and previously had a 99 Sunsetter with the diamond hull. The slalom wake is noticeably better in the Response, but the Sunsetter was actually fine. And surprisingly, the surf wake was better in the Response. We have a suction cup wake shaper that works great for diverting the wake to the side of the surfer. This suction cup wedge shaped thing didn't work on the Sunsetter because the back of the boat has a cutout ledge that didn't allow us to put it at the very back of the boat. So that's the main reason the surfing is better behind the Response. We have 2 600 lb fat sacks that we put in the back and 1 in the side of both boats to do surfing. However, I don't like doing it in the Response since it creates a vibration when we use it. Must be changing the alignment of the shaft? The Sunsetter has a lot more storage and room to move around, which I miss.

[Wolfeie]

I owned a 2004 Mastercraft X7 and was very happy with the cross-over on this boat. In those days Waterski magazine did their yearly boat reviews and it came out good. My X7 was used on a private lake and I thought the slalom wake at 22 off was better than the 196 and as the rope got shorter the wake was excellent to ski behind. The X7 normally came with a tower and ballast sack with pump, so wakeboarding was very decent for a cross-over boat. I sold it because that engine model was not easy to upgrade to ZO. X7's are a little hard to find...not many out there. For skiing the tower weight acted like a third person, so I usually only had driver and one extra passenger or ballast since at a private lake you don't have to have a observer. At one point in time there was 3 X-7's on our private lake.

 

[jpwhit]

@SevernRat glad to help. Again, having your wife skiing at 28 and hopefully your daughter getting excited about skiing rings true to my background. My wife has been learning the course the last few years and skies at 28. And my daughters skied at slower speed during their learning years. And I teach a lot of female skiers the course at our lake house, so I care a lot about slow speed wakes.

 

The ski wake at slower speeds is something that varies quite a lot by boat model. Also, the fact that you're skiing with full rope length may be significant as well and frankly I don't really know what the wake is like at full rope length on many of these boats. But it may be better.

 

Our Ski club upgraded from a 196 to a 200 in 2014. The 200 has a better wake at slower speeds than the 196. I also have a 2019 ProStar for slalom course skiing at our lake house. It also has a good slower speed wake.

 

Given all you're said, I think a Sunsetter or Response LXI, may be the best balance point for you as others have also suggested. It has the advantage of having a higher freeboard than most of the other slalom boats so should give more of a margin weighting the boat for wakeboard and surfing. Net, I could see it being the right balance for what you want, but the slow speed wake is little bit of an unknown for me.

 

I've only skied behind the 197 / X7 in a tournament, and I wasn't that impressed with the wakes. But at the time I was skiing 15 off and 30mph, and the 197 is known for having a respectable slalom wake at higher speeds and shorter line lengths. The 197 also has a reputation for being a great trick boat because the wakes get bigger as you slow down, so I tend to think it wouldn't be the greatest option for your wife / daughter.

 

Having owned and used both a 200 and newer ProStar on both private, but more importantly on public lakes with other surf boat traffic, I can't imagine feeling safe ballasting them for surfing.

 

anyway ...just my 2 cents, but I doubt you're going to find many people that have first-hand experience with all these boats, especially the characteristics at slower speeds and full line length. Ideally, if you can find something and are able to test it out, I'd recommend having both you and your wife try it and see what you think. If you're happy with it, that's all that really matters.

 

I'll also add that if you're a tinkerer, a surf boat can be pretty addictive. It's the ultimate toy for someone that likes to tune and improve things. The other thing that I like about surfing, is it's really very social. You can take 10 people out on the boat, and even if they have little experience surfing, most can learn to do something first day out. And all the action happens right there within speaking distance, so the boat full of people tend to get very engaged. Slalom skiing will always be my first passion, but when you have lots of time to burn on a big lake, it's hard to deny the appeal of surfing.

[SevernRat]

@Vernon Reeve There's a few really nice RLXI's out there right now. I definitely would prefer the additional space provided by a SSLXI. I think I'd definitely be picking up one of those suction cup surf thingys, or maybe even the installed pneumatic ones.

 

@Wolfeie There's a really nice 2008 X7 not too far from me.

 

Maybe I just need to hold off until June and then attempt to ski a few of these options.

[Ski_Dad]

Love my sunsetter lxi - zero difference to my friends response lxi for ski wake. Beats everything on your list except a Nautique 200, but the Malibu is more family friendly IMO.

[Vernon Reeve]

Also, I should mention, I typically ski the course at 30 and 32mph. So maybe that's why I notice the wake difference more than others. But your best option is to definitely ski behind the boats. This will tell you if you like the wake, and if the boat has an issues, like vibration or stiff steering.