Iowa State Water Ski no longer able to practice or compete

[skiinxs]

NCWSA should eliminate the one season out of competition for transfers and encourage the skiers to immediately transfer to other schools, even if an online remote course. Or... what does it take to charter an online university titled !%$#* Iowa state:)

[MattP]

@skiinxs It is already in the rule book.

Transfer RuleAny skier who has participated for any NCWSA school as an "A" team skier in the fall season will be allowed a one time exception to participate as an "A" team skier for another NCWSA school in that skier's first fall season at the new school. For the purposes of this rule: transfer or transient status at a school shall be considered interchangeable, ski year is as defined in 4.1.1.2 of these Rules, and the skier's first fall season is defined as the fall season during which the skier transfers or the first fall season immediately following the skier's transfer if the skier transferred during the previous ski year. Four exceptions to this rule are noted below.

An exception is allowed if this same transfer skier has not participated for any NCWSA school as an "A" team skier in the fall season immediately preceding the skier's first fall season at the school to which the skier has transferred

A second exception is allowed for any skier whose school has dissolved its water ski team. A letter testifying to a three ski year suspension of participation in NCWSA sanctioned tournaments must be: signed by the school's club sports sponsor (or higher ranking official); submitted on school letterhead; and accepted by the NCWSA National Board. For purposes of this rule: three ski years is defined as the ski years during which the next three fall ski seasons occur following official suspension of NCWSA participation.

A third exception is allowed for any skier who is transferring to a school with no current or active NCWSA team.

A fourth exception is allowed for any skier who is transferring schools to begin a graduate degree. Said skier must have graduated with an undergraduate degree in the prior year.

[Bongo]

I'm familiar with the situation;

@ETskier : Yes, NCWSA leadership was engaged in March 2022 when the first hearing with the University and team leadership was held, and NCWSA leadership has been consistently engaged since. Safety was represented, stats were presented and safety requirements for sanctioned practice and tournaments provided, including for how the team met those obligations. Liability insurance as a component of the sanctioning fee was also covered. Much later the team found out the bigger concern is that practice and tournaments are off-campus.

@jjackkrash : An affiliation is (now) required by NCWSA rules. The path you describe is one the team pursued. A vote was held by NCWSA Board in August 2022 to grant a 1-year exemption on recognized direct affiliation while the team navigated the process to see if they could become an independent student organization (not yet a thing at IWS), but it failed to pass. This followed Iowa State's clarification that included “8. In no way can your club represent, nor give the appearance of representing, Iowa State University as a club team.” (Iowa State's bolding.)

@skiinxs : Agree with the sentiment. But the final last attempt on clarifications and votes came about the day school started. So not much time to transfer. [Note: A driver you trained and tested is getting a lot of time behind the wheel at college tournaments, now that she cannot be a contestant on a recognized team.]

Their student newspaper had an article yesterday about the club. A few inaccuracies on timing, but otherwise good and seemed supportive: IWS Daily - Water Ski Club Fights to Save Club

[jjackkrash]

@Bongo, that sucks on the NCWSA rules change, but I appreciate the clarification.

[MattP]

@jjackkrash @Bongo it was not a rule change. It has been a long standing rule.

[jjackkrash]

CSU Chico's team disaffiliated and skied for years under the constant threat of litigation by the school and the NCWSA was fine with it under the name: "Team Chico, Tournament Waterskiing." So something changed at some point.

[MattP]

@jjackkrash Chico is officially affiliated with their school. Your info while accurate is very much outdated.http://www.ncwsa.com/californiastateuniversitychico/

[jjackkrash]

@mattp, yes, I know, I am generally old and outdated. Now get off my lawn.

[BraceMaker]

Do other clubs/groups at Iowa State have petitions going?

I would think a good way to apply leverage is to rely on all the other clubs and sports that also got disbanded and support them as well.

That said I'm a little disgruntled after that game.

[JayShower]

I skimmed through the NCWSA bylaws and wasn’t able to see anything that explicitly requires the club is sanctioned by the university, except for A team students must get a letter from the registrar attesting they have full-time student status, which I suppose the university could refuse to do. Just curious if someone else can point to the rule.

Here is link to the bylaws: http://www.ncwsa.com/resources-and-documents/

[BraceMaker]

@JayShower

Section 1. Authorized Memberships​Subject to the requirements which will be set by the Board of Directors, the following memberships are authorized:​Club membership in the NCWSA is open to any College or University water ski club. Each club shall have voting privileges within their respective region, subject to their regional bylaws.

"This followed Iowa State's clarification that included “8. In no way can your club represent, nor give the appearance of representing, Iowa State University as a club team.” (Iowa State's bolding.)"

Its not a College or University water ski club if it isn't sanctioned by the university.

[JayShower]

@BraceMaker I mean that just sounds like the situation @jjackkrash describes, a team of university student water skiers, and if they tried to compete Iowa State university would pursue legal action, or at least they are threatening to.

I am just trying to understand the situation better in the event something like this would ever happen to my team (University of Michigan).

[Bongo]

@BraceMaker : I might be a little disappointed after that game as well. Do the black & gold even have an offense? Punter is the MVP of the team this season...which isn't great.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the other ~30 teams who met the same fate as the water ski team are actively fighting this. For two reasons (so far), 1. water ski team season starts right away as soon as fall semester starts (others can wait to see how this turns out), and 2. the water ski team does really pursue a team goal rather than individual performance goals. At least for my kid, the summer AWSA season is way different than collegiate skiing. Summer is for keeping fit. Collegiate season is when you coach up your teammates and individually peak for your team.

[Bongo]

@JayShower : At Michigan, is the water ski team funded by the University? Or are you a sports club or independent student organization that is recognized as affiliated with Michigan, but not (financially) supported by the University?

While an imperfect analogy, I think of the situation similar to a college founded by and directly affiliated with a deeply religious foundation. How does the college welcome LGBTQ+ without changing their foundational principles? One way might be to allow independent student organizations of like-minded LGBTQ+ students and supporters that are recognized by the school, but aren't endorsed by or receive any official support. [[Disclaimer: Again, this is an imperfect analogy. I'm not stating a specific position.]]

[BraceMaker]

@MattP what would it take for NCWSA to create regional unaffiliated teams?

There is precident for this at the Olympics where unaffiliated athletes can participate.

Would it not be within the pervue of the NCWSA to allow all waterski athletes from colleges and universities that did not have a club to compete as an unaffiliated team in their region?

This would let say ISU students practice at dream lakes, have their "interest group" meetings and would give an option for say a skier who attends a small private college that clearly would never field a team to participate.

Each collegiate region would have one such team which could ski 5 skiers per discipline.

[BraceMaker]

To be clear having this team officially be unaffiliated with athletes from other schools on it makes it clear it does not pretend to be an extension of iowa state

[ToddL]

I like where @BraceMaker was headed on this. I think it can be done, but I recommend a smaller geography. Something like the following solution would allow skiers to group and participate.

"State of state name Collegiate Skiers Team"Do an unaffiliated team by state. NCWSA would validate collegiate student status and facilitate linking the skiers together. Each student would simply request proof of enrollment to submit to NCWSA without specifying why/what purpose. Students attending a college which has an affiliated NCWSA team may not participate in the unaffiliated teams. The skiers are still on their own to organize, practice, etc. how they see fit. This might even mean individuals skiing training alone. Possibly the state "team" might not be allowed to participate in team placement at regionals/nationals, but individuals can participate for individual placement.

When there are more than X number of students in the state team, the students can electively group into NCWSA registered sub teams, (with other remaining state skiers remaining in the state team). The sub teams can be named using the local county in which the majority of those skiers reside. "Somewhere County Collegiate Skiers Team". Sub teams can participate in regionals and nationals placement.

[BraceMaker]

@ToddL I do think it could subdivide if demand was sufficient. Say Iowa where you had a full team like ISU but you also have other schools like UNI drake and Grinnell maybe if the demand is enough you have a state unaffiliated team.

But if each region had a team to register for that would both help out that student but also could be a way for a school to establish a team, they could learn from the exposure and time on that about how to get their school on board.

Post got one WTF so I'd be curious what the problem with that would be?