What makes Charlie Ross so good?

[thager]

Drew Ross

[Horton]

See it better here https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClPQecTtcZR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[Andre]

He's Canadian!Bacon and maple syrup!

[Cooper_Trelawney]

One thing I notice is that he appears to be rather light in weight. He probably has a similar strength to weight ratio as Smith did around the same age.

[MickeyThompson]

Gets high on the boat with speed and never slows down.

[ghutch]

He's never learned bad habits for most of his skiing career and had to relearn how to ski correctly. Growing up in a talented family and having year round access to the best equipment and ski site probably helped some too. Saw him ski at the Masters this year... great skiing for such a young guy.

[139]

It’s just the Ross/Neill genetics…..so much experience/wisdom in that family! Drew, Eddie, Clay!

[drew]

Ok, you got my attention :DHonored by the comments, thank you. I'll help:

1. drive
2. work ethic
3. brains
4. Bergman
5. many talented competitors to watch, older and younger. The field is full of exceedingly outstanding people--full of skills, discipline, and imagination. Most in the group would excel by any metric in just about anything they wanted to
6. all the items listed in the comments above (support system)

Thank you again (Horton) for the kind comments and attention. It's a long road to hoe--you'd better love the process (and all that good stuff)

[Horton]

@drew I have no doubt about the truth of everything you wrote above. Obviously having a father who was an elite skier is a significant factor. Access to the best coaches in the world is a factor.

My question is technically what is he doing differently that sets him apart. What are the lessons to be learned from watching him ski? How has he ( or you ) prioritized the skills that are most important?

[swbca]

Charlie has a distinctive body position as he completes his turns on both sides. He breaks at the hips/waist keeping his upper body almost upright through the turns. Check the video. Some other top skiers do this as well, but not as upright as Charlie. Back when Carl Roberge won the Nationals (in Texas) and a World slalom title he also had this distinctive upper body animation as he completed his turns on his most difficult rope lengths.

[drew]

@horton I don't think he is necessarily doing anything differently. It's about having a vision of what it should look like (avoiding incorrect designs), and working toward that vision.

[Wish]

Ahead of the fall line.

[slow]

Skis like Nate

[Lieutenant Dan]

@drew Bergman?

[Killer]

@Lieutenant DanAndrew Bergman. Amazing Coach, driver & skier.  He's behind the wheel at Drew's most days and a huge part of Charlie's successes these last few years.  He was also in the driving crew at the jr. World's. Ski with him if you can!

 

[Horton]

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Neilly Ross (@neilly.ross)

[Horton]

Cant tell me that kid is not edge changing early. Maybe it is an early pass but still.

[jayski]

@Horton he's not changing edge early...

no such thing as can't...😏

[Horton]

@jayskiseriously, he is diminishing his lean and roll angle before the centerline. This video is an easy pass and I am sure he can not do that at 39 or shorter but it is interesting. 

[Drago]

He's changing his edge at the right time. 

[Horton]

@DragoI feel like you're both agreeing and being argumentative at the same time 🙂

[Drago]

@Horton You're figuring me out 😉  He's changing his edge at the right time for him. It looks "early" to others (many?), or feels unnaturally early when you're trying it.

Ultimately, IMHO, an edge change through center line is the most correct. If you're late, at a slower speed, and depending on your ski setup, you gotta pull longer. It's not the best situation, but happens often and the "best" learn how to fix it.

[Horton]

@Drago Yes. I point this out because I think a lot of skiers pull/lean longer because of the factors you mention but do not think it is a problem. Pulling long is the result of other factors AND it creates issues going to the next ball.

[Adam Caldwell]

His position/timing with the boat and ZO throttle input plays a huge factor in his path through CL and the trajectory into the ball.   Disrupt that timing and you'll see him start to pull and lean much longer.

Doesn't hurt he has a surface area to weight ratio the rest of of may never have the luxury to experience.

Edited January 14, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[Dano]

I see him coming back to the handle with less angle, getting stacked, and then really driving into CL as he increases cross course angle.  Does hooking up with less angle like that allow him to maintain more speed, therefore he doesn’t have to spike ZO until he is closer to CL or at all?  Does that extra speed make the earlier edge change possible?  

[Bruce_Butterfield]

8 hours ago, adamhcaldwell said:

His position/timing with the boat and ZO throttle input plays a huge factor in his path through CL and the trajectory into the ball.   Disrupt that timing and you'll see him start to pull and lean much longer.

Doesn't hurt he has a surface area to weight ratio the rest of of may never have the luxury to experience.

C'mon @adamhcaldwell get off your butt and get going on the 72" C95 so the rest of can experience that luxury!😁

Very valid observation that unfortunately I don't think will translate well for the non-skinny crowd.

[Drago]

@DanoI don't think he spikes ZO

@Horton, @adamhcaldwell, @Bruce_Butterfieldagreed👊

[Horton]

When Smith popped on the scene, he was light & skinny and riding a 67-in ski. Everybody just thought he was a freak.

Charlie is even lighter than Smith was and again riding a 67. I don't know what Charlie actually weighs but my guess is he's in the range for a 65.

This has a lot of people scratching their heads. There's a lesson in there somewhere

[jjackkrash]

18 minutes ago, Horton said:

This has a lot of people scratching their heads. There's a lesson in there somewhere

Lose weight, get a bigger ski, and ski like Nate and Charlie.  🙂  

[S1Pitts]

 I normally ski a 67 and weight in at 180 -185 when in ski shape. Last spring I was dealing with an ankle issue so I wanted to take it easy the first month or so. I hopped onto a 2012 69.5 inch Strada I have around for biggers guys. I was generating so much speed I could not slow down for the turns. No matter how much I got on the front or it and I was running 12 deg wing to try help. Some of the biggest crashes in the turns I have ever had. This did not help my ankle so I gave up.

I get the acceleration part but how does he slow it down enough to turn, that's my question.

[Horton]

if it was as simple as be lighter and or just ride a bigger ski it would not be a puzzle.

[Rednucleus]

@S1PittsMaybe means you don't have to pull as long on the bigger ski??

[Dano]

@Drago I’ll agree he is not spiking ZO as heavier skiers would. He does still load and zero off will still be responding. He still has to manage that the same as the rest of us.  Yes I know he is lighter and the forces created may be less as a result but he also is not as strong as a fully grown professional athlete.  To me his success is a result of  what he is doing either differently or better than others and not just him simply being lighter.  

[Horton]

@Danoand that brings us back to the original question of this thread

[ScottScott]

@Horton @Drago

“A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”

[ghutch]

If weight is the case then maybe ski manufacturers can start building 72-78" skis. 

 

And I am just kidding....

[S1Pitts]

12 hours ago, Rednucleus said:

@S1PittsMaybe means you don't have to pull as long on the bigger ski??

Yes I agree the bigger ski had a whole new set of required timing parameters that I just was not willing to spend the time on. It sure felt fast though.

[jayski]

Free of the boat and gets ahead of his feet

[Adam Caldwell]

@Bruce_Butterfield  hahaha......What do you think we have been doing since day one?? 

Not to take away from this post of Charlie and his ridiculously good skiing...

Its well known that Denali is already significantly wider then almost every ski on the market for a target skier.  Most big guys like our skis just because the deep water starts are easier.  

We are diligently working on the necessary magic to allow a 220lber ski like Charlie and Nate!  I will say, the hardest part is once you get a big 200+lb human traveling cross course faster, is having the means to slow them down into the ball without sinking or having excessive drag!  Like @S1Pitts mentioned, as fast and efficient as a big ski can be, its useless if it cant slow back down fast enough to sustain proper timing with the boat.

For this new design, we decided to do ALL ski design and development on a XXL ski. (Bigger then anything we have built in the past).  Its helped us better optimize some key features to bring balance to a "big ski" in ALL phases of the course.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[VONMAN]

Spiking ZO!? When does it happen? For a great number of skier's it's at the finish of the turn. Caused by overturning, or stopping/slowing the ski just before the turn in and have the ski sink (because the ski is to short). Now look at Nate and Charlie, they keep the ski moving up to and around the ball. (no ski sink/stop. Longer ski) They don't connect with a major hit, they are patient to set the angle/stack/load and once it's achieved the work begins. The angle/load happens at a progressive rate and peaks behind the boat. Just watch the tip of the ski from stack/connect to behind the boat. (progressive load) They are in their angle/load at the best position to take on all that ZO can throw at them. The skier doesn't care because ZO can't hurt them.

When I was much younger I would try to follow crowd that you had to be on a shorter ski. Never felt comfortable on a short ski so I was pretty much on 67" or 68" skis. But now in my 70's I'm skiing at 32.3mph on a 65" and loving it. The C-85 large design is working out just great. And because I practice what I preach I'm still able to ski. @HortonProgressive Load, not max angle off the ball but behind the boat where ZO doesn't feel or hurt you.