Shims for canting bindings outward??

[208maverick]

Does anyone have any suggestions for finding shims that I can slide between binding plates and ski top surface to cant the bindings outward?  I've got a friend that is a great athlete but happens to be VERY bowlegged, and has always inexplicably struggled with snow skiing and water skiing (lot of leg fatigue in both sports, and way more than her fair share of pretty spectacular crashes).  I took her along with me to my favorite snow ski shop last winter to help her upgrade her boots, and the salesman (a very experienced bootfitter) took one look at her legs and asked if her legs "wear out early" during a ski day.  She noted that with her degree of bowleggedness, she's gotta be constantly on her outside edges, making her skis want to take off in opposite directions or forcing her leg muscles to hold her legs in an unnatural position 100% of the time.  The fix there was to designate one ski as her left and one as her right, and then put some shims beneath her binding and ski topsheet so that her skis actually sit flat on the snow when she's in a normal stance. 

It made a noticeable difference in her snow skiing comfort, and that made me start thinking about how that would apply to water skiing.  She skis on two just fine (albeit a much wider than normal ski stance) but has never been able to stay up on a slalom ski.  I think her wide stance on two is a function of where those skis naturally position themselves to allow them to ride flat on the water beneath her bowed legs, and her crashes on one (always the ski darting to one side or the other as she tries to slip her back foot into the boot) are probably a function of the ski having to go on edge when she centers it beneath mass to get her back foot into the rtp. 

She's not been successful at doing a deepwater start with both feet in the bindings, so if I can find some shims (I'll match the angle of the shims they threw onto her snow skis) I'd like to experiment with that next time she attempts slalom by kicking a ski off.  Thoughts???  Suggestions???  (My alternative is to jury-rig some shims, but that's less easily accomplished on the boat.)

 

[thager]

I am very bow legged also. I built my own. To find your shim angle buy some plastic door shims for pretty cheap at Menards, Home Depot, etc. Drill screw holes in them matching the binding plate holes. Mount up the shims perpendicular to the bindings to try them out. You will need slightly longer screws on the thicker sides. I ended up at 1/4" thickness. From there I bought some 1/4" starboard. Could have used 1/4" plastic cutting board also at Walmart, etc. I then traced my boot shapes out on the plastic with a yellow crayon, cut the shape, then ground the angle on a sanding table. Lastly, I drilled the boot holes and mounted them up between the plates and the boots. Works great for me. 

[Drago]

Washers work.

(Also, I usually don't offer unsolicited advice, but wedges under alpine skis is very 90's. Nowadays we grind the boot sole or put the wedges between the boot sole and a boot lifter, then grind the binding lug for proper integration.)

[208maverick]

37 minutes ago, thager said:

I am very bow legged also. I built my own. To find your shim angle buy some plastic door shims for pretty cheap at Menards, Home Depot, etc. Drill screw holes in them matching the binding plate holes. Mount up the shims perpendicular to the bindings to try them out. You will need slightly longer screws on the thicker sides. I ended up at 1/4" thickness. From there I bought some 1/4" starboard. Could have used 1/4" plastic cutting board also at Walmart, etc. I then traced my boot shapes out on the plastic with a yellow crayon, cut the shape, then ground the angle on a sanding table. Lastly, I drilled the boot holes and mounted them up between the plates and the boots. Works great for me. 

Thanks.  That's the route I was going to follow if there wasn't already something out there available.  (Shim angle is already known from snow ski measurements.)

[208maverick]

28 minutes ago, Drago said:

Washers work.

(Also, I usually don't offer unsolicited advice, but wedges under alpine skis is very 90's. Nowadays we grind the boot sole or put the wedges between the boot sole and a boot lifter, then grind the binding lug for proper integration.)

That was discussed, but the consensus was to try the shims first to make sure that addressed the problem as the amount of grinding was going to be excessive.  (Boot fitter's comment was "... I think we're looking at a shop record here -- pretty sure we've never seen this much cant before...")

 

[lpskier]

Strips of duct tape. Build sort of a stair case from the low side to the high side. Depending how high you want to go, you may need longer screws on the high side. 
 

Personally, if I was going to cant my boots, and since I wear hard shells, I’d put something in the shell under the liner or in the liner. Try something like this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-Pair-of-Bow-Legs-Correcting-Insoles-PU-Strephexopodia-Corrector-Leg-Correction-Pads-Foot-Care-Cushion-Size-XS-32-34-Gr/2115483738?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101133944&&adid=222222222282115483738_101133944_148487627733_18354527428&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=656994559350&wl4=pla-2012465421553&wl5=9051575&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=555176123&wl11=online&wl12=2115483738_101133944&veh=sem&gbraid=0AAAAADmfBIp_RtH9orNFk4rZfKIqEar4A&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuo2dyJ6o_wIVzXxMCh28lAyXEAQYAiABEgI6ifD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by lpskier

[Drago]

@lpskier it's best to have your leg centered in the upper cuff first, then deal with alignment issues (center of the knee over 1st and 2nd metatarsal≈

[lpskier]

@Drago I agree. But the question was about shims, and the assumption was that you need to shim the plate, and my point is that you can also “shim” the foot inside the boot to get the same result. No? 

[thager]

@lpskier Depends on boot type. I tried orthotics inside my Vapors but found it changed how the the boot released. Probably fine for a true hard shell. I shimmed under the plate to find the amount of cant needed. Wasn't a good long term fix as stress cracks the plate in a fairly short time. Placing the cant between the boot and plate has worked the best for me.

[BraceMaker]

I'd suggest going onto a MOB and having Mike build the angle in between the boot and the sole plate.  More similar to how it's done in alpine too

 

[Drago]

4 hours ago, lpskier said:

@Drago I agree. But the question was about shims, and the assumption was that you need to shim the plate, and my point is that you can also “shim” the foot inside the boot to get the same result. No? 

Sorry, I kinda ran this down a rabbit hole, but, not really. Shims inside the boot change the alignment of the bones in your foot/ankle.

[OldboyII]

Aligning boot ( LFF ) by inside shims 

Before:

 

After:

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by OldboyII

[lpskier]

@OldboyII The 90’s called and they want their CDs back!