When to change kids slalom ski

[chrislandy]

So my boy is running the course nicely now, regularly running 43/18.25, sometimes through 46 and occasionally into 49 and wants to be running 55 and into shortenings by the end of the year

He's currently on a 65" Radar TRA which seems to suit him even though he's 80lb but due a growth spurt.

 

So the question really is when to change his ski and which skis/brands to look at? Preferably not new to give me time to look for one.

[Horton]

I would stay on the TRA for while. It is a VERY good kids ski. 

With Buford Danger I have had the chance to move her around from ski to ski. She was on a cut down 65" Vapor for a year or so and it was clearly better than the TRA until she got to about 23 MPH & 80 lbs. Then the TRA is clearly better. 

You have to remember that TRA is a kids version of the Senate. It is a proven design.  

[jjackkrash]

I would personally put the kid on a 63.5" Vapor until he hits 110 ish pounds and then move him up to a 65".  You can find sweet deals on those skis if you are patient and scour the internet.  I have two I bought new (but several model years old) for $300.  My boy picked up a pass the day he switched from a 65" TRA to a 63.5" Vapor at about that weight.  If I am reading the speeds right he is going fast enough to benefit from the Vapor.  (I'd also cut him to -22 and throw away the red loop, but not everyone agrees with me on this.).    

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@chrislandyyour son is in a really funky transition zone. Without watching him in person or video I would err agreeing with Horton (dammit) and keep him on the same ski. 
But…… it never hurts to try something else if you have the opportunity or can pick something up on SIA. If it doesn’t work, sell it back and break even.  The 63.5 vapor would be near the top of the list. 

another thing to consider is that he is in the range to move to a hard shell.  Not to add more variables but you could keep the same ski and have him try a reflex. Keep the rtp. 

you’re welcome for another way to spend $$ on kids gear😝

[chrislandy]

Spoke to his coach at the weekend and he reckons he has a good few more speeds in that ski.

 

He's on a hardshell & RTP already and has been for about a year now. Did this over the weekend 😆 very slow fall so didn't release but his rear foot was still in the loop so quick a soft but high show value OTF

[Downunder]

Went through this transition with my son 2 years ago. He was 11 years old and moved from a 63 TRA to a 65 Vapor when he was running into 49Kph regularly. In his first comp on the Vapor he ran 49Kph for the first time.... . 

We changed skis because my daughter wanted the TRA to herself and I found a 2018 vapor pro online going dirt cheap (a Demo).  He also moved to a hard shell binding pretty early on. 

I think it helped my son's progression getting on the Vapor sooner rather than later.  He found it very easy transitioning from the TRA to the Radar Vapor Pro so its probably worthwhile looking at a Vapor when you upgrade. 

Kids certainly get very excited, ski more, and expect to ski better when they get a new ski, which I think helps the progression and keeps it fun for them.  But I highly recommend waiting for as long as you can. This expensive sport becomes even more expensive when you kids start progressing...... . 

 

[ReallyGottaSki]

The pounds, inches, kph and meters just scrambled my brain

Edited June 27, 2023 by ReallyGottaSki

[chrislandy]

54 minutes ago, ReallyGottaSki said:

The pounds, inches, kph and meters just scrambled my brain

so does converting everything to ft off rather than rope length, half our clubs run on mph and the others on kph! then it gets really confusing!

[JimP]

On 6/9/2023 at 10:08 AM, Horton said:

I would stay on the TRA for while. It is a VERY good kids ski. 

With Buford Danger I have had the chance to move her around from ski to ski. She was on a cut down 65" Vapor for a year or so and it was clearly better than the TRA until she got to about 23 MPH & 80 lbs. Then the TRA is clearly better. 

You have to remember that TRA is a kids version of the Senate. It is a proven design.  

It was suggested to me that I consider chopping a ski shorter for my daughter (8).  She has a 62” Goode that is too narrow for her right now at 25kph and I was told that if I cut my wife’s old 65” Goode it would be an excellent ski for her at this time.  
 

did you literately chop the Vapor to 62-63”?  Was the back shape square or rounded to be a similar profile?  
 

Cheers

[Hallpass]

@JimP.  I'm sure someone will respond that this works great and tell you exactly how to do it. If it works, it works.

But, I'm just not sure why you would do it when it is really cheap to buy a ski.  You can currently buy a Radar TRA in 63 or 65 on wakehouse.com for $199.  Williams Ski and Sport has them for $219.  

Even if your child used the ski for two or three years (mine used her TRA three if I recall), and even if she beats up the aki (girls don't typically beat up their gear), you will still be able to sell the TRA for over $100.

While I have no idea what is your financial status.  However, I'm guessing that if you are riding Goode skis, and participating in this sport, you are probably doing ok.  Given that, I would not think it is worth your time to cut the ski, buy the materials to patch the carbon fiber on the tail, your time to repari the the tail, your time to properly place the bindings, tail, etc.  I  would think your time and materials are  worth WAY more than the $100 or so you might lose if you just buy a TRA.

My $.02.  Maybe I am wrong.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Hallpass
spelling.

[JimP]

1 hour ago, Hallpass said:

@JimP.  I'm sure someone will respond that this works great and tell you exactly how to do it. If it works, it works.

But, I'm just not sure why you would do it when it is really cheap to buy a ski.  You can currently buy a Radar TRA in 63 or 65 on wakehouse.com for $199.  Williams Ski and Sport has them for $219.  

Even if your child used the ski for two or three years (mine used her TRA three if I recall), and even if she beats up the aki (girls don't typically beat up their gear), you will still be able to sell the TRA for over $100.

While I have no idea what is your financial status.  However, I'm guessing that if you are riding Goode skis, and participating in this sport, you are probably doing ok.  Given that, I would not think it is worth your time to cut the ski, buy the materials to patch the carbon fiber on the tail, your time to repari the the tail, your time to properly place the bindings, tail, etc.  I  would think your time and materials are  worth WAY more than the $100 or so you might lose if you just buy a TRA.

My $.02.  Maybe I am wrong.

thanks for your advice.

Not a cost question but rather my daughter has two jr skis. (62” Goode and 63” Syncro)

 I’ve been told that some people put their kids on a cut down ski rather than a jr ski like a TRA.  I’m sure @Horton didn’t put his daughter on a cut down Vapor unless there was a reason why this was better than a TRA.

as such if it’s better for me to cut down a 65” Goode we have (that’s worth more than a TRA) then I’ll do it.  

[Killer]

Paige Rini started on a cut down radar MPD.   Rini has been known to do this, but also has a larger quiver of free skis most of us don't have..

200 for a TRA sounds pretty damn good but it's not the same construction and it's a senate shape.  There's a reason the TRA is $349 MSRP vs $1899 for the vapor pro. 

Also only comes in 63 and 65.  There may be some advantage to a wider tail for kids and "pro" ski construction like a more advanced core and layup, and a smaller ski.

https://youtu.be/1Zh7hm1gkkQ?si=6cYX5m_eonyDbSfw

[JimP]

9 minutes ago, Killer said:

Paige Rini started on a cut down radar MPD.   Rini has been known to do this, but also has a larger quiver of free skis most of us don't have..

200 for a TRA sounds pretty damn good but it's not the same construction and it's a senate shape.  There's a reason the TRA is $349 MSRP vs $1899 for the vapor pro. 

Also only comes in 63 and 65.  There may be some advantage to a wider tail for kids and "pro" ski construction like a more advanced core and layup, and a smaller ski.

https://youtu.be/1Zh7hm1gkkQ?si=6cYX5m_eonyDbSfw

Thanks K.  Looks like I’m chopping a few skis haha

[Drago]

Im not a betting man, but I'll bet that a majority of elite skiers had their kids on a cut ski

[Hallpass]

@JimP. Fair enough. If you have the time, money, and skill, and believe that is best solution for your child, then that’s the perfect solution. Hope she kills it. 

[Horton]

The chop tail ski is fantastic for a phase of kids skiing but that is a short phase.  Buford loved it for a season and then needed to go to a traditional shape ski. I am saying that a chopped ski is not a magic bullet.  

[jjackkrash]

63.5" Vapor.  No chopping required.  

[buechsr]

7 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

63.5" Vapor.  No chopping required.  

Respectfully, I would disagree that an 80 pound 28 mph 15 off kid is best served by a ferrari-esque shape and construction.  He doesn't weigh near enough or create the forces needed to to let that ski do its thing.  A 63" Vapor is not necessarily a "kids" ski just because its short.  I understand that your son picked up a pass, but that's as much a function of length as it was shape.  Look if it works for OP's kid, great, but a softer, shorter ski than a 65 would be my vote, not a stiff-riding ferrari with very little forgiveness at 28/15.

Would suggest a call to Brooks Wilson, who may well disagree.

[jjackkrash]

15 minutes ago, buechsr said:

Respectfully, I would disagree that an 80 pound 28 mph 15 off kid is best served by a ferrari-esque shape and construction.  He doesn't weigh near enough or create the forces needed to to let that ski do its thing.  A 63" Vapor is not necessarily a "kids" ski just because its short.  I understand that your son picked up a pass, but that's as much a function of length as it was shape.  Look if it works for OP's kid, great, but a softer, shorter ski than a 65 would be my vote, not a stiff-riding ferrari with very little forgiveness at 28/15.

Would suggest a call to Brooks Wilson, who may well disagree.

Aren't they talking about taking a high end ski and cutting it down?  I'm not sure how that's gonna be softer than an uncut high end ski.  And we just put a 90 pound boy a one of those 63.5" skis and he's doing great on it at 22/23 mph (I have had 5 kids now have good success on the little vapor at those speeds now just starting out).   I just don't see the advantage of cutting a ski over a TRA or Vapor, but looking at Howley's binding set up for example, I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Edited September 1, 2023 by jjackkrash

[Horton]

@buechsr

I have put a LOT of lower level skiers on Vapors with great success. The idea that a child or less skilled skiers should not ride one is simply a misunderstanding of the ski. Maybe a TRA is a better choice and maybe not. The TRA is certainly a great kids ski. Remember a TRA is a kids Senate and a Senate is a slightly wide Vapor. 

The Vapor is not some crazy finicky ski that should be reserved for 41 off skiers. Furthermore a narrower ski ( generally) means better wake crossings but there are other factors as well. 

Buford Danger is 85 lbs and has a PB of 1/2 ball at 30. That is on a TRA. Her next ski will likely be a 63.5" Vapor.

[Hallpass]

@Horton. If I recall, Buford’s “chop” ski was a 59” sent from the factory that way, right?  You were not out there with a skill saw, cutting off the tail, Patching the cut, slotting the fin, etc. ?

[Horton]

@Hallpass yes it was a Radar test ski.

[buechsr]

On 9/1/2023 at 2:02 PM, jjackkrash said:

Aren't they talking about taking a high end ski and cutting it down?  I'm not sure how that's gonna be softer than an uncut high end ski.  And we just put a 90 pound boy a one of those 63.5" skis and he's doing great on it at 22/23 mph (I have had 5 kids now have good success on the little vapor at those speeds now just starting out).   I just don't see the advantage of cutting a ski over a TRA or Vapor, but looking at Howley's binding set up for example, I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Because the difference is, by cutting it down at the tail, the “new” tail has way more support (from width), than a simply shorter ski.  Yes, construction and stiffness may still remain, but the ski rides higher.  

Apparently kids skis are like politics, lol.

In my “opinion”, there’s a difference between lower level skiers, and an 80# kid at 28 mph at 15 off, but I would never disagree with someone with more experience than I.  

  Lots of good opinions here OP.

There isn’t a magic pill except boat gas.  Enjoy the journey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by buechsr