non cat engine platforms.

[Jody_Seal]

  thought I would pass on some information I recieved from Pleasurecraft marine national sales manager yesterday. 

those of you that thought you would repower your older non catalytic boats will not be able to do so as PCM has ceased production of the 6.0 repower platform. was notified that the 6.0 engines are alloted for oem builders In a catalytic exhaust format. 

The H5 and H6 can be procured for a repower but be advised a lot of moving bilge items around will be necessary as will In many cases engine box modifications.

cost to repower with the H series engines will nearly double the cost of the non cat platforms.

 

[Mastercrafter]

I had a feeling something like this would happen when Correct Craft acquired PCM. 

Non-Cat ZR409 6.0L was something like 13K last I checked. What's the cost now for a cat engine, and are they even available or only for OEMs?

[Jody_Seal]

I am not sure as the acquisition had a whole lot to do with the decision as more the availability of the platform.

Quote from pleasure craft management: "As of right now we do not have any engines for this application that we can offer as we have exhausted all of our 6.0L for Repower engine builds and GM is no longer producing them."                                                                                                                  Bet a dollar  that the base engine for all PCM oem builders will be the H5 series in the real near future. wonder what Ilmor and Malibu will do or how many 6.0 engines did they rat hole?

Keep in mind this happened to the small block Chevy about 10 years ago. most everything one can imagine on that  platform can still be had in a aftermarket vendor. Now same with the 6.0 there will be availability in the aftermarket..

[DW]

If you still want one (6.0) you will need access to alternative fuels:

https://poweredsolutions.gm.com/products/6l-lc8/

As Jody notes, the mfg's (boat) do rat hole stuff when things are discontinued or regulation changes are imminent.  With any GM V8 power unit there tends to be a large aftermarket supplier base.  One can ground up build a Gen 1 SBC from aftermarket parts in almost an infinite number of power and displacement levels.

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal what about the stories of warehouses full of remanufactured motors at Indmar? is that Urban legend?

[Jody_Seal]

20 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Jody_Seal what about the stories of warehouses full of remanufactured motors at Indmar? is that Urban legend?

I personally seen it about 10 years ago. what has happened to it In  the last 10 years or at least since Correct Craft acquired it I don't know.  if I know Correct Craft it quite possibly all gone to scrap..

[MDB1056]

Another reason to LOVE old boats....... This is nuts 

[Mastercrafter]

Ah, oops..  that makes sense as the 6.0 is obsolete in the automotive world. Wonder how long it'll be an option in the Prostar. Malibu is only 5.3 and 6.2 GDI as of now, no 6.0 available. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jody_Seal said:

I am not sure as the acquisition had a whole lot to do with the decision as more the availability of the platform.

Quote from pleasure craft management: "As of right now we do not have any engines for this application that we can offer as we have exhausted all of our 6.0L for Repower engine builds and GM is no longer producing them."                                                                                                                  Bet a dollar  that the base engine for all PCM oem builders will be the H5 series in the real near future. wonder what Ilmor and Malibu will do or how many 6.0 engines did they rat hole?

Keep in mind this happened to the small block Chevy about 10 years ago. most everything one can imagine on that  platform can still be had in a aftermarket vendor. Now same with the 6.0 there will be availability in the aftermarket..

 

[jjackkrash]

It seems like the GM Gas 6.6 used in the HD trucks would be another viable option.  It looks like a workhorse that runs on 87.

 

https://poweredsolutions.gm.com/products/l8t-engine/

[ALPJr]

Sounds like good news for PP Zbox

[The_MS]

Dont worry, we will be all electric soon. 

[Horton]

@The_MS there is a lot of BS around the electric vehicle industry but when you look at the performance of Tesla and other electric cars I have to say I am looking forward to electric ski boats - once the bugs are worked out ( cost, charge times, battery fires, electrocution and such )

[Jody_Seal]

13 minutes ago, Horton said:

@The_MS there is a lot of BS around the electric vehicle industry but when you look at the performance of Tesla and other electric cars I have to say I am looking forward to electric ski boats - once the bugs are worked out ( cost, charge times, battery fires, electrocution and such )

@Horton you should write yourself a panda on that one. 

@The_MS safe one!

[Jody_Seal]

1 hour ago, MDB1056 said:

Another reason to LOVE old boats....... This is nuts 

just reached out to PCM for a 2012 engine harness.... they giggled..

[ReallyGottaSki]

We will long for the days when an engine could operate with just one purple wire

[rawly]

2 hours ago, ReallyGottaSki said:

We will long for the days when an engine could operate with just one purple wire

All it needed was gas and a spark 🤣

[JackQ]

@ Horton, You forgot one other attribute that needs to be worked out before an electric ski boat will be practical, Weight!  The motor will be much lighter than a V8 lump, but a 1,000- 1,750 pound battery pack will have a significant impact to wake quality. 

[thager]

Not to mention if a battery cell goes bad. Oops, we don't fix individual cells. Fork over 23K please.....

[UWSkier]

12 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

It seems like the GM Gas 6.6 used in the HD trucks would be another viable option.  It looks like a workhorse that runs on 87.

 

https://poweredsolutions.gm.com/products/l8t-engine/

If people love the 6.2 for its torque and response, they'll REALLY love the 6.6L.  It's basically a punched out 6.2 but with an iron block like the 6.0L so weight is probably similar.  I really like that engine in my Silverado HD!

Probably a better wake boat engine though with its much stronger internals.

[Ufda]

7 hours ago, JackQ said:

@ Horton, You forgot one other attribute that needs to be worked out before an electric ski boat will be practical, Weight!  The motor will be much lighter than a V8 lump, but a 1,000- 1,750 pound battery pack will have a significant impact to wake quality. 

I don’t think that’s clear. One interesting thing about battery weight is that it could be spread out in the hull. Gas engines have two small heavy weights: engine and fuel tank. It’s possible that different arrangements of battery weight could improve the wake. 
 

That being said, battery capacity and charge time are still unsolved problems, without easy solutions. 

[The_MS]

Cant wait until 1/2 the ballers are running combustion and 1/2 electric. There will be some interesting threads

[chrislandy]

19 minutes ago, The_MS said:

Cant wait until 1/2 the ballers are running combustion and 1/2 electric. There will be some interesting threads

you can tell it's the end of the season can't you! 

ZO would have to make their control algorithms semi public to allow the ESC development... bonus 🙂

[BraceMaker]

@chrislandy I disagree about their control system being public, ZO patents are aging I've been watching but so far haven't seen anything that clearly indicates that an ESC version would be covered by their patents either.

PP might be sitting on versions of their product that would run a mechanical motor potentiometer.  

The AWSA boat rules also don't specify ZO, if any of the big 3 boat manufacturers had been running a mechanical throttle boat in 2008 PP could have kept equipping boats for tournaments it was only that all the current boats were DBW equipped that squeezed PP.

So atleast as I see it right now if there was a tournament hull electric boat running stargazer it could pass the boat test and be an AWSA towboat.  Would be good for the sport IMHO to have a competitor.

[tjs1295]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:44 AM, MDB1056 said:

Another reason to LOVE old boats....... This is nuts 

I might be confused, but isn't this really bad news for old boats? I'll use my 2007 5.7 as as example. If that motor blows up now, it can be replaced with a 6.0 non-cat engine, correct? Or maybe a rebuilt 5.7? But, in the near future I would have to replace it with the 5.3 or 6.2 at a much higher cost???? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but it confuses the hell out of me. 

[DW]

@tjs1295 - perhaps direct from GM supply may diminish although currently there is a huge aftermarket supply base to provide any SBC variant.  In the case of repowering old boats, the hot rod industry could be the savior as that demand is high and keeps the crate engine business going.

[tjs1295]

@DW OK, thanks. That makes sense. 

[MDB1056]

@tjs1295 My main message was older boats with our older 5.7 GM and Fords don't have to worry about this motor market wrinkle as for the most part we're just skiing the heck out of these great old slalom tractors and are more than happy to simply rebuild them back to stock after a zillion hours or a simple crate motor install. Yes this is the PP/Zbox crowd too that also doesn't feel we're missing a huge part of the modern world without Zero Off  and Surepath as most of our crowd are not competing at levels where those are essential.  Life is much less expensive, and simpler in this space.