Tuning

[Dano]

In reading about how to adjust bindings /fin most all of the info refers to tuning for turns, but there’s not much talk about how the ski moves/feels thru the wakes.    I like the way my ski turns with binding forward but I’ve found that if my front boot gets too far forward it becomes really heavy feeling at the wakes and takes a more direct path to the buoy.    Moving binding back,  the ski feels lighter, faster and creates more space.  It turns both sides well enough that I never really think about turning.    In reading on this site most people are pushing bindings forward.  This has never worked for me.  On multiple skis my favoured binding position has been 1/8 to 1/4 back of stock with stock fin settings. So I’m curious if I’m missing out on some magic.  I know it’s personal preference for each individual style I’m just looking to better understand things. 

[Drago]

55 minutes ago, Dano said:

 In reading on this site most people are pushing bindings forward.

I would double check that.

*It's important to know the level of the skier giving advice/measurements. If you're shooting for 35 off, advice from someone at -22 or someone at -39 might not be appropriate (unless the -39 guy is a coach and knows where you are and want to go)

[jjackkrash]

Spraymakers JUNE 21, 2021 "SKI SET UP" .   Lots of talk about boot setup.  

[Dano]

@jjackkrash  Somehow i missed that episode.  around the 15 minute mark explains pretty much exactly what I'm feeling.  Thanks for sharing.

[Horton]

Bindings forward is a funny thing. It FEELS like you turn better but often is not better. 

The ideal range front for binding placement is maybe 1/2" forward and backward from stock. It is often less.    

Bindings forward makes the tail slide less. You do not usually feel it but the ski is always sliding one way or another. The right amount of tail slide is smooth skiing. Not enough tail slide means less angle out of the ball ( as well as other bad things). Too much tail slide means uncontrolled turns ( as well as other bad things ).  

As for the wakes. That is an interesting subject that is not often talked about and is less understood. My guess is that what you are feeling with the bindings forward at the wakes is that you have more ski in the water than your technique can deal with. Having the ski flatter in the water should make it faster IF everything is balanced.   

@Drago  9 times out of 10 I am ready to listen to anyone who runs more balls than I do and unlikely to listen to anyone who runs less. The more balls ahead of me another skier is the more I listen. I guess a guy who runs 39 could give odd advice to a guy who runs 22 but what are the chances of a guy who runs 22 giving good advice to a guy who runs 39?

 

[Dano]

27 minutes ago, Horton said:

My guess is that what you are feeling with the bindings forward at the wakes is that you have more ski in the water than your technique can deal with. Having the ski flatter in the water should make it faster IF everything is balanced.   

 

@Horton  I think this is spot on.  I’m just trying dial in -32 with hopes to get deeper into-35.  Boot forward is breaking me and I’m seperated after CL.  It’s a little easier to manage with my boots back a little.

[Horton]

@Dano Most factory boot and fin settings are pretty darn good. 

[scoke]

A few brand of skis, one rule of thumb applies.

For every 8 degrees of water temperature change and a range move the boots about 1/16 or nearly 2/16.

Being April, if folks have been skiing, it's time to make the change.

 

Some brands of skis you want the boots far forward to the feeling of forebody plowing at 135 as a righty, then move them back 1/16.

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

@scoke

Do you think that is "a thing" mostly with guys who rode Goode Skis for years? I do not question the method I do not see a lot of skiers do it.  

[Dano]

I messed around a fair bit with this last year to try and get a feel for binding placement, mostly for my own reference.   I summarized it by how the ski felt thru the wakes.  From what I felt, too far forward the ski felt like it was a lot of work, was harder to maintain connection, it began to feel like I was hitting cement curbs crossing the wakes, and I just could not make space before the buoy.  I tried back and liked it.  For some reason I had it in my head that most skiers were going forward,  I  thought I must be doing something wrong. So I started this thread to discuss. 

[scoke]

That’s a valid point. 
 

yes most goode skiers who run real buoys have it down and don’t blink at moving the boots fwd/aft with water changes. I’ve seen a few D3 guys make the change too. 
 

maybe more skiers need to do the same? 
 

related note “why”. As the water warms or cools, the ski changes the way it sits in the water. We are losing our balance point like a teeter totter. We need to move  our connection point to be back of the balance point and all will be well. 
 

 

if you never think you are on the balance point, that’s the first step in the process. Jam them forward until to plows at 135!!! 

[Horton]

@scoke 

The other approach is to set up your ski for summer temps and then understand that skiing in cold water just sucks or is just different. 

Seriously - It does seem like some specific skis ( older Goodes ) are far more sensitive to temp changes than others. I view this as absolute voodoo. I know it is true but I do not believe anyone can explain it. 

With most skis, is 8 degrees of water temp a bigger factor than 8 mph wind? Or 6.0 ProStar vs 6.2 Nautique? Don't get me started about how big a factor different ropes are.

[BraceMaker]

Do you swim out and take the temps in the middle of the course after a few passes or right there by the dock?

[Horton]

@BraceMaker

it's just like calibrating zero off. You've got to take a temperature reading at the entry and exit gates and then average the temperatures.

[scoke]

40 minutes ago, BraceMaker said:

Do you swim out and take the temps in the middle of the course after a few passes or right there by the dock?

 

oh shoot. Forgot about that. 
 

oh no, I mixed 87 octane with 93 octane. 
my boots are in the wrong spot, no wonder I am squatting a pulling across the boat and a 4@32 off skier!!!

[Dano]

@scoke  Which way are are the boots going as the water warms? 

[scoke]

9 hours ago, Dano said:

@scoke  Which way are are the boots going as the water warms? 

For Goode brand skis and the southern states, as the water warms up move the boots back 1/16 and maybe 2/16 Depending on the skier. and vice versa.

For most of the Goodes, there is a sweet spot, 64-72: 72:82: 82+

 

So initial setup of your ski matters greatly as where you are standing on the ski in regards to the water temp.

 

 

[Dano]

@scoke thanks.  It’s good to have info like this as a reference.  
Our water is still in the 40’s here and it just doesn’t feel good right now. 

[scoke]

Saturday I was very sad.

Msscoke wanted to water ski at Okeeheelee so I loaded up the boat, checked the battery and made darn well I had a prier (props to teammalibu), whacker and yardstick to adjust my boots for the water temperature.

Before we left, I asked a skier what the water temperature was to make sure I could block off an hour moving my boots before I skied. Maybe even retaping my ski as I move my boots every set and then make fin changes between sets based on the dew point vs humidity vs octane and UV index.

 

The skier sent me this pic, i couldn't make heads or tails of it, the units baffled me. Then I checked my ski log as I couldn’t figure out what to do as I’ve never seen anything like that!! So we stayed home, ate a pizza and was semi-sad.