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@Chef23‌ - my son put his knee on the rope just past the v of the bridle and did B and F. Learned it as a B1. Yes the knee does go over the rope first. We found that holding RB was easiest learned way out in the flats where the boat doesn't pull you out - not easy. Cory/Joel/Herman/Storm all used rope release when coaching toes. That was one of the YouTube videos I remember watching.

@chef23 if you mean LB LF my son learned by resting his leg on the rope and doing B or F. I have forgotten where I read/heard that. If you are talking about Ski Line tricks you start out by pulling to advance on the boat and then doing a B over the rope as it is lying in the water. It looks like the article cited above disagrees with this as the way to start out. Joel Wing's video may have a section on Ski Lines and there are a couple Youtube videos. Of course its best to get coaching.

The 3000 pt no flip runs that I've seen (look at videos of B1, G1, B2, G2 and W3+, M4/5+ nationals) all seem to have WLB LF LB WLF and TO RTB and TBB RTBB. The line tricks and RTB and progeny seem be the key.

Take a look at "military landing mats" - 18" x 12' - $45 (150#s)

@MrJones‌ - younger son is 12.5 and in largest Reflex shell but 16 yo 6 feet tall 130 lbs so likely to get bigger. Older son is 13 wide and can't do Reflex.

@mmosley899‌ - Thanks!

@mmosley899‌ will the release work for the size 12+ guys provided they can find a boot? I have son who's foot is too large for Reflex.

For car topping 90" jumpers one thing I've heard of is cutting the wheels off of a Sport-tube bottom and using two tops. Not inexpensive as you need two Sport-tubes. But, Sport-tube may sell you just the top.

I did about the same thing with the Indian Guides about 15 yrs ago. I would not even think about "teach[ing] to ski." What worked for me was getting a "Ski Skimmer", starting the kids in 2 inches of water and driving the boat at 5 mph away from shore. 9 out of 10 "skied" behind the boat the first time - four sets each over a weekend

So a class C is no longer a reasonable practice tourney for a regionals/nationals junior skier . . . A lot like video v shore trick judging. Extremely discouraging to the kids when they don't score as well in important events.

I think that flips are overvalued vis-a-vis other tricks. For instance I think that T5F (350) TWLBB (480)/TWLO (480)/SL5s (550) are substantially more difficult to perform than BFL (500). I think I would work on values and scoring reverses rather then more limits.

@tfriess - What actually causes a skier and their ski to rotate is the momentum initiated by the pull of the arms (or leg in toe tricks). Some call it advancing on the boat or loading the ski. My son needed to get stronger to start landing his 5s.

If you can't get onto the water - which is by far the best - here are two dryland devices (both homemade) that helped my son: 1) 16 Inch circle of 1/2 plywood with a tennis ball attached (I used a PVC cap) to the bottom center - stand on it with your ski leg and keep the edges from hitting the ground (crazy difficult). 2) 2 trick ski sized pieces of 1/2 inch plywood connected at the the center with a lazy susan swivel - practice your tricks with a handle attached to a pole.

This link http://www.genedavisfamily.com/trickvideos/2013Nationalstrick.html is the best resource I've seen for seeing different trick runs at different levels - the best part about it is that it has the score sheets at the end. Unbelievable resource - thanks Gene! @Chef23 - I would take a look at Ryan Gay's (B2) handle pass for ideas on how to make things quicker - its like coaching from @mlusa.

Learning T5F and safety release after making it the first time . . .

I think the Conflict of Interest Rule, course survey, towers on both sides, and video from boat for tricks (I know this is not currently required for Class E but scores are consistently lower) should be the minimum requirements for Regional Records. So maybe revise Class E standards? I also think it would be great if Class E & L could be run to the same "looser" standard.

@eleeski - partial credit for tricks does nothing to address jury selection, it just adds another subjective element . . .

@eleeski - very enviable list of new tricks. Also extremely difficult and time consuming to get scoring. Toe turns have a lot of potential stopping points - so lots of potential lesser included tricks. Ski lines need the line to be out of the water. W7B needs a lot of rotation. Good luck!

@eleeski said "The format for judging provides a barrier to new tricks in the run." How? And, how does adding an extra layer of subjectivity in judging help?

@eleeski said: "Many of the established trickers have spent a lot of time making their tricks perfect. Perhaps at the expense of learning some of the bigger but more judging exposed tricks." That in my opinion is the beauty of trick skiing - it is extremely difficult and the skier decides the level of risk they want to take based on established trick values - yes different then wakeboarding. In my experience well executed tricks do not get cut. Tricks that are not properly executed get zeroed - it really is binary. The trick values provide the "fuzzy" aspect and spectator appeal. If you want to put "spectators and judges on the same page" eliminate reconciling scores - separate the judges so they can't hear one another and average the 3 or 5 scores. Don't make things more difficult by adding a additional subjective factor.

How do you switch between trick and slalom if you are out on the water?

I too am a bit surprised that trick wakes/table appear to be an after thought in the design process (I hope I'm wrong - we train behind a 196 but trick behind MC in tourneys) . . . definitely a strong point for the PS190/197.

"My" skiing happens during when I can get some time during the work day or away from commitments on the weekends. When the family is with me at the lake its predominantly about them skiing. Its amazing how efficient your lunch time can become.

@Mrjones - this is what I've been told as may son has progressed: hard edge = hands, rubber edge = toes, if only one ski honeycomb rubber edge (which is what we settled on). Toe tricks are very important early on. Now that my son is working on hands 5's, SL's etc. he is wanting to try a hard edge for hands. Also, as the skier progresses different lengths for toe and hand skis becomes more prevalent. We were also told not to go too small at the beginning - he is still using a 42 inch D3 that we got when he was <5' and about 65 pounds. He is now 5'10" and 125 and may want a longer hands ski.

How about "point your knees at the ball" - it has worked for some of the folks I have coached.