rfa

@Kindly Just shipped (UPS) a sport tube and a ML roller bag to FL. In the Sport Tube I packed my slalom ski, my two sons' trick skis, vests, ropes, tools. The UPS option while quite more expensive, avoids the TSA step which could never repack it as i did.

@Kindly Just shipped (UPS) a sport tube and a ML roller bag to FL. In the Sport Tube I packed my slalom ski, my two sons' trick skis, vests, ropes, tools. The UPS option while quite more expensive, avoids the TSA step which could never repack it as i did.

I was always intrigued by the development of these guards but did not get one until a friend in NY passed away from such a skiing accident. That event changed my perspective from "analyzing" all the pros and cons of a guard, to an immediate "my children will never again ski without one"...we had a guard for our very next ski set... I now have a guard for each handle and have since ordered handles and ropes with custom, larger loops, to avoid the issue of getting the handle on/off the rope (the segmented design shown above accomplishes the same thing). For me, the guard did not have any impact on my skiing or required an adjustment period beyond the first couple of sets with it...my two boys did not even comment on it from the very first time. We use 12in handles.

Thank you Jam Man...spoke to Joe last night...we may get together if/when i get out there...many thanks!

Thank you again!!! i will try to find someone out there and see if i can get a pull...I live in MA, so have not seen water since October...Any water would be a treat!

Thank you! If i can make it work, it'll make this meeting all that much more 'productive'...

Possible meeting in Phoenix end of January...any sites/opportunities to ski while there? Many thanks!

U-shaped system w/ lift in the midle...aliminum frames and composite decking...roll-in by hand in the spring, pull up with hand winch in the Fall. www.shoresidedocks.com

from a previous post on this subject... I have been on Fogmans for about 8 years...first the blue ultra-wheels, now the red diablos...100% satisfaction to date! No pre-releases and zero "no-releases" when needed. (I think i posted once before that in all my realeases i did not even realize the ski was gone until lookin down at my feet). Yes, I keep hardware lubricated and check release spring tension (position) from time to time. I suspect (but have no experience) that all hardshells are comparable in confort and may be skiability...for me, the fogmans release system is the key factor, only because I "understand it" mechanically, whereas i don't velcro (nothing negative about velcro, just not for me) Lastly, i have had fogman release units screwed directly into the ski (eight new holes on the ski - "mean" thing to do to a new ski...), as well as with an adapter plate, which screws into the standard inserts. I cannot tell the difference from a skiability perspective (but then, i am not good enough to detect subtle changes) ...since that post, i did have a significant fall (but no injury) due to a "pre-release". Upon inspection of the system, it was clear that the release units had moved "away" about 1/8 inch (this could only occur because of my adapter plates; not the fogman system itself). So i can only praise the performance and reliability of the fogman system. (only get into 35off/34mph on lucky days...experience limited to this level)

@EdObermeier - Thanks, this is helpful, as I have been trying to help a friend with SG. Just to clarify, I assume you meant times were within 0.02 sec, since 0.2sec would be out of tolerance.

regarding the huge (wide) ski cut in half, if the huge (wide) is over the 30% aspect ratio rule then it is an "illegal" single ski; so unless or until there is a rule addressing two skis being connected, i don't see the problem being two skis I assume that the scores for this (beautiful) little girl were based on two skis (which I understand are about half the points of single ski tricks); as long as they were it all seems good to me.

I am not a lawyer...ski judge...much less a trick skier...hence, not well qualified to comment. However, based only on the info presented above this seems reasonably simple: it should be legal as long as the tricks are credited based on 2-ski trick values. 1) It cannot be not a single ski because it violates the the aspect ratio rule; it should be considered 2 skis since (from the rules posted above), nothing excludes two skis from being attached as per the photo.

Thanks! With your answers I am confortable that the boat/ZO are OK and I will try to determine the length of the course either through Google earth or side-by-side with a PP boat (yes we still have the magnets in place...)

Thank you both very much! Thompjs - Have not checked google earth...will do. Roger - That's exactly what it does...it beeps before reaching the end gate (sometimes on the return pass it beeps AFTER the entrance gates and then beeps pretty much on top of the exit gates...)... So my "preferred" scenario seems correct; ZO controls speed accurately and my course is too long (d@#%, I should run more bouys...) thanks again!

My apologies in advance if this has been thoroughly discussed in the past…I did a brief search (non-exhaustive by any stretch) but did not find the “answers” I have skied behind PP for the past 10 years at home (public lake) and behind ZO at tournaments in the recent years. Just got a new (to me) boat with ZO and in the process of mapping our home course coordinates and using it, I have come up with some questions. The brief background is as follows • I have a floating slalom (6-7 years old) course that I cannot survey for accuracy • I successfully mapped it with my new ZO GPS • I get 16.93 to 16.95 at 34.2 mph consistently, which suggests that the course is quite accurate regarding its length • However, I have done several stopwatch tests and I consistently get 17.30 -17.35 sec. • This means that If the boat is actually going at 34.2 mph then my course is about 17 feet too long • I called the folks that make the floating course and they tell me “no way” the main line could have stretched 17 feet… • I have done these runs multiple times , so I am certain about the ZO and stopwatch times • The ZO folks tell me that it monitors/controls speed very accurately, but “position” less so I also did another test …mapped the course twice; once I pushed the SEL button as soon as the end gate continuous beep started; second time waited for the beep to go on a little bit (probably moved another 8-10ft) before pushing the SEL button. Both approaches were mapped successfully. I get the same exact times (16.93 – 16.95) with both mappings. At the accurate 34.2mph speed, 10 ft would equate to a 0.2 seconds time difference. (e.g. 16.75 – 17.15) Given this experience, I (want to) believe that ZO truly controls boat speed accurately (hence my course is truly about 17 ft too long). If this is true, then the conclusion I have to draw is that the course time numbers we get are “reassuring” in properly surveyed courses but “meaningless” in the sense that it is a “calculated” number based on poor position (or course length) information. In other words, what we get is a display that says 16.95, but should say 34.2mph… The less attractive scenario would be that my course is actually sized properly and the boat is only going at 33.5mph… I assume this has been “put to rest” a long time ago (e.g. they did lots of stopwatch tests on surveyed courses and got 16.95's), but this is my first experience with actually mapping a course and I am curious… Any answers or suggestions on where to find them would be appreciated rfa

Of course I remember you Mike! Good luck with the ankle and choosing the bindings  Hope to see you again this summer  rui

PT Mike????  Mike who/where? yes Rui here...like LPskier (JW), I too, have been on Fogmans for about 8 years...first the blue ultra-wheels, now the red diablos...100% satisfaction to date! No pre-releases and zero "no-releases" when needed. (I think i posted once before that in all my realeases i did not even realize the ski was gone until lookin down at my feet)  Yes, I keep hardware lubricated and check release spring tension (position) from time to time. I suspect (but have no experience) that all hardshells are comparable in confort and may be skiability...for me, the fogmans release system is the key factor, only because I "understand it" mechanically, whereas i don't velcro (nothing negative about velcro, just not for me) lastly, i have had fogmans screwed directly into the ski (eight new holes on the ski - "mean" thing to do to anew ski...), and with an adapter plate, which screws into the standard inserts. I cannot tell the difference from a skiability perspective (but then, i am not good enough to detect subtlel changes) Most important (which I should have said up front) best of luck with your injury! rui

LPskier=John Wilkins!...nice surprise! Lpskier and Chef 23 drop me a note with your email addresses  rui at townisp.com

Interesting discussion! At first I assumed the original graph depicted “performance†in terms of “skier performance†(e.g. buoy count, or simply how the skier “felt†he skis in those different temperatures).  And while I am not able to quantify anything other than buoy count, I was not surprised by the shape of the graph, especially once Scoke added the “time at each temperature†info. I drew the same conclusion (qualitatively) that H2OSKI1326 did (quantitatively) with his much more elegant analyses. But it seems that the question being asked was strictly about the ski and how it is impacted by water temperature. This is of course, very difficult to quantify, but likely a non-issue if we were to focus strictly on the ski itself…material property things like thermal expansion, elasticity, etc. are likely minute in the narrow temperature range we are interested in (that which one can get in the water to ski…). (Has anyone tested a ski’s flex at 50 F vs. 90F? I suspect very little difference but have not bothered to go look up carbon properties…) However, there is a performance impact that Scoke and about everybody else has felt…it comes from the interaction between ski (no change) and water (primarily viscosity change as already shown, neglecting other non-temperature driven water properties for simplicity). This is the same impact everyone feels when driving the same set of tires on dry vs. wet vs.  iced pavement. The point is yes there are some tire (rubber) property changes between say 10F vs. 90F, but they are negligible compared to the interaction between tire and pavement surface conditions. “Performance†such as stopping distances or skidpad can be tested and/or calculated, but it is (for the same tire) primarily driven by pavement conditions, NOT tire (rubber) changes. So, could we test or model a ski’s performance at different water temperatures?  Yes in terms of practical things like how deep does the ski ride, or more “academic†things like friction forces, etc. But these “performance’ attributes are due to the fact that one of the two things involved here (the water, not the ski) has changed with temperature. To translate this to actual skier performance, you need a test skier way better than me… one who could truly ski exactly the same way in 40F as in 90F water…the same way that to measure the tire vs. pavement performance you need a driver capable of driving exactly the same way in dry pavement as in ice. Sorry for the long “blurbâ€â€¦full disclosure I also have graduate degree in Thermo/fluids, (30+ years ago), so unlike H2OSKI1326, I don’t remember anything anymore, but I have enjoyed this conversation (as I do most others in here!)

Ali I am in Shrewsbury (next to Worcester, MA) and live on lake Quinsigamond referenced above. I am "sort of" the slalom course "manager" and we have a group of skiers that numbers about 10 - 12. It is a public lake so no guaranted conditions, but you are welcome to come and ski. "Chef23" and "Than" ski in Natick as far as I know and they may have some info about lake Cochituate there. Feel free to contact me if you wish.  rui at townisp dot com regards Rui  Â

I was there, saw his arm bruises and indeed very lucky not to have significant injury...and yes, an amazing young skier who had a great tournamernt...and so did his Dad! good to see you Chef  rfa

Thank you! Radar MPD, 65". (I am M5, about 5' 7", 145 lbs). This will be my 3rd year on that stick, so may be time to try out other options... ÂÂ

i get through 32off/34 on a lucky day, so my experience is limited to this level of skiing. i am on my second set of Fogmans (first the original blue boots for about 5 years and now into my third year on red diablos - got both throught TRS1). One possible pre-release fall (still not sure)  and a fair number of other falls. so far the release has been PERFECT...never feel even a tweak on my ankles, actually don't even know the ski is gone until i look for it at the end of my legs... i was on rubber bindings before the fogmans so i have no experience with other hard shells...but i can only say good things about the fogmans. And yes, they are comfortable! (my first post ever, but have enjoyed reading the forum for awhile)