Razorskier1

@fu_man I think keeping gate width and shoulder direction is a fallacy. As noted earlier in the thread, I got exactly the opposite advice from Rossi, and it fixed my width, fixed my balance, fixed my gate load issues all at the same time. Said differently, ONLY if you are so immobile that the direction of your shoulders causes your ski to turn inward, should this imact your width. Conversely, suppose I put my shoulders square to the ski tip in the glide. All else equal, I could argue that posture will pull you narrow (if you don't carry enough speed to stay wide). Staying wide is a function of your speed vs. the boat, not the position of your shoulders. When I point my chest to the pylon I get wider, and stay wider, with no pull from the boat dragging me back in. Why? Because I carry more speed and am riding on the front of my ski. Try something. Stand in your living room feet side by side, shoulders back. Your weight will be in your heels, particularly if you are holding weight (like dumbbells), which emulates the load of the line. Now keep the dumbbells and put your left shoulder slightly ahead of yourself and leave your right shoulder in place (because in skiing your right shoulder won't go behind you due to the pull of the boat). Now your weight will be in the balls of your feet. I believe that for the average skier, like me, all of the advice about flex this, bend that, etc, to try to get weight on the front of the ski is too complicated and it isn't my natural body posture, thus making it diffficult to replicate or maintain. However, if all I do is think about where my chest is pointing (at the pylon on pull out and glide, then quarter way toward the boat (rather than directly in direction of travel) the rest of the time, weight distribution takes care of itself. Simpler is better for me. So, rather than tell you to flex your ankle, bend your knees, get your hips up, etc, I'm going to say stand like you would on solid ground, and let your shoulders "slightly" toward the boat. All those other problems go away.

@dgarland10 I believe too much coaching is built around either squaring your shoulders to the ski or skiing with your shoulders "open". Why do I think the advice of having the center of your chest toward the pylon works? At the gate glide suppose you glide with your shoulders square to the direction of the ski. When you turn in, if you want to keep them square, you need to rotate your shoulders 90 degrees (along with your ski) in order to do your gate. Now, suppose instead that your chest is already pointed at the pylon (which by the way IS the next direction of travel!). Now all you do is keep your shoulders in the same position and ski forward into the handle. Under the first scenario, you will tend to twist and put most of the load on your back shoulder. Under my scenario, you will not twist at all, and you will balance the load better between your two hands. This is a more balanced position on your ski. Second, if you want to see how this works, try this drill when pulling out for your gates. First, try pulling out by squaring your shoulders to the tip and leaning out/forward. What you will find is that it feels like work to get up on the boat. This is because for most of us, this move puts too much weight in our heels/back on the ski. Now, try the same move out for your gate by first looking toward the pylon and letting your chest point at the pylon as you move out/up. You will find that you literally 'zoom' up the side of the boat to width with almost no effort. To get people to do this the first time I've often told them to look back at the wake and then pull out. This over-emphasizes the move, but helps you understand it. Why does this work??? Because when you let your shoulders be slightly offset from the direction of the ski, it moves your weight forward naturally because it moves the load. Think about it. If I pull out for the gate and keep my left shoulder back, my weight is back. If instead I let my left shoulder move forward (chest to pylon), it automatically moves my weight forward, moves the load forward, and makes the ski go. Similarly, then when you turn in for your gate your right shoulder is already where you want it to be. At that point instead of letting your shoulders become overly open, you literally just hold them where they are and point your ski across the course. I've always believed less movement is better, and this achieves that objective. Why less movement? If you twist to keep your back shoulder away from the boat, I believe the natural outcome is to overload the back shoulder, creating excessive line pressure. As that pressure builds it then causes you to be pulled up and inside the handle path after center line, and you are back on your ski. Some people can ski this way and be very effective. I know I can't. So . . . In short, I'm using shoulder position to balance the load, minimize movement, and keep me more forward on my bindings. It is far easier (for me) to let the boat make all of these things happen than to try to maintain some perfect position on the ski through other means.

But I love my 2016 Vapor!

So this post is some funny things, and some helpful things. What have you all heard from coaches that made you laugh or made you better? Lucky: When I tried to do what he told me to -- "did I tell you to try?" Jodi: After I ran 35 - "on a scale of 1-10, how hard do you think you were pulling?" Me: "eh, maybe 5" Jodi: that was like an 11! You don't need to pull that hard!" Jodi: and this is real advice. "square your hips to the direction of travel." Me, what about my shoulders? Jodi: "when you are ready to turn in and are crossing the wakes, your chest should start out pointing at the pylon, and stay there. Put another way, the center of your chest should be quartering between the direction of the ski and the boat". Rossi: "I like your skiing. One change. In your gate glide, point your chest at the pylon, and then when you turn in just follow your chest across the wakes." (by the way, this has helped me enormously, and I think I can explain why if you want a long post!) Chet: "stay on top of your ski. Two hands on the handle, outside the buoy line, on top of your ski" Chet: "why are you trying so hard to make your ski go after the turn? You can't make your ski go, only the pull of the boat can. Connect to the pull of the boat and let the boat do the work." Wade: Wade made me switch my grip to the way it should be. I had been reluctant to try it given some shoulder issues. Best thing ever! Andy: "as soon as you know your ski will clear the buoy, move your eyes to the platform of the boat." Some of these were just funny at the time, most of the others have actually been EXTREMELY simple and very helpful to my skiing.

water filled buoys

Check your ground wire.

Any one tip, given without proper context, is a bad tip. Most of what we want to do better in the course comes from something we do right or wrong two steps prior. For example, "where should I turn in for my gate?" Heck if I know, how high are you on the boat? Or "you just need to keep your handle longer". Well, good luck with that if you aren't in the right position on your ski with the correct amount of line tension. I could go on and on and on. Point is, when someone tells me to fix something they see from the boat, I always rewind 2 steps to figure out what I really need to fix to resolve the problem.

@MS - so do I. At a graduation party a week ago I had a 70 year old lady (mother of a friend) tell me I look a little like one of those guys! I told her I wasn't planning to leave the country - not sure I'd get back in!

you need to pull harder, like you are trying to get to shore

um, he's just better than us! Seriously, he is. For example, for the last few seasons I've been about 50% at 38 off, but close to 100% at 35 off. Why? Because even when I screw up at 35, I feel confident that I know what I need to do to get where I need to be to turn the next ball. At 38, I can get away with some mistakes too, but they are more difficult for me to recover from (mostly because I don't believe it!). Anyway, point is for Nate that confident line length is 41 off. All of us have a line where we are confident, and the next one not so much. Nate is just way better than me, so his confident line is 41, not 35.

seems like a pretty high end ski for someone who isn't running full speed yet.

sometimes when I ski too much I start falling off the top of the ski (leaning too hard) because that's easier than balancing correctly. Then my grip and back and shoulders give in. While it sounds like you are training a lot, I'd try to lean less, stay on top of the ski more, and see if that helps.

I love my 2015 Prostar! Best pull of any boat I ski behind, and the dynamics of the interior space with the ski racks on both sides are fabulous!

I like to get wide and turn in while still wide and carrying speed. The more speed I carry st turn in the less tempted I am to load the line too much later. It's all about speed.

Nice! Now for a BOS event!

@Booze -- are you having fun? Then I say test away!

I've tried it a few times just to see if I can get up. I can, but boy it doesn't feel good. My advice - do yoga for a few months before trying two-feet in!

You have to do what you can on the offside. I think of it as letting the boat bring my back shoulder forward a little, rather than, as @matthewbrown said, twisting away. You don't need to be completely open in order to have a fairly even load between both arms/shoulders. Having all the load in one shoulder is, for me, sub-optimal.

great to see you on the right side of recovery @Chef23

I hope to be there in early September

After edge change I am just trying to be a weight at the end of the line, using my direction and speed to keep the line tight. I think sometimes people talk about keeping handle pressure and they think they need to PULL after the center line. No. After center line you should feel the pull of the boat, and keep your handle close, but you should not be actively pulling.

@6balls - I'm afraid of your 68 inch ski after what it did to you!

@horton - winner winner chicken dinner!

Go back to the handle path. You can either (a) pull on the handle, (b) let the line go loose, or © you can let the boat pull you. If you make sure you keep the boat pulling you, then you have handle pressure, you will be wide and early, and your line will be tight.

@skiboyny While you are generically correct, you miss the point. Prior to cancer I could run two sets of 12 passes including 10 35s and a couple of 38s and still be fresh. It was quality AND quantity. Now I have to cut back quantity and it sucks.