BraceMaker

@MichaelWiebe and correct me if I'm wrong but isnt this the first 41 on a Radar?

12 hours ago, Mateo_Vargas said:

How will it hold up in salt water?

How do the clamp bolts on your current fin box hold up?  Probably the same as that.  Potentially the adjustment knobs will hold up better because I don't see provisions to lock the knobs themselves from moving regularly but those torqued down clamp bolts soaked in salt water will do the exact same thing.

@SportSki I would.  Just get a Wileys and call it done if you're adventurous buy a couple overlays at the same time and keep them in a drawer out of the sunlight for a lifetime supply.

Its where you wonder does it make more sense to have the thing sit level constantly with some sort of gimbal mount or to correct prior to the shot.

I would think due to the way this is mounted in the sightline that you really don't want it to be bulky so you would probably want to use some sort of linear actuator to position the shot as opposed to having a large mechanism but then again if you redesign it to work off a bimini or a tower you'd reduce some of the constraints.  Also from my life I think I'd rather have a unit mounted into a Bimini than on my window no offense to the design but I really don't think having that on my boat is going to fly when we pass the sheriff but that could easily be tucked up into the bimini frame.

7 hours ago, Drago said:

It's pretty easy to pull the safety switch out, or reach up to the back of the switch, and tie the two wires together .

yes but again if you hear the pump then pull the lanyard and dont hear the pump then replace the lanyard and again hear the pump which is a test that takes seconds then you can jump right past troubleshooting both the kill switch and ignition switch.

1 hour ago, jpwhit said:

Lanyard cuts power to the ignition system, not the fuel pump. 

People say that but turn your key to on and listen.  Then pull your lanyard and repeat.  Report back.  

It cuts both on most of these boats since the 12V run wire goes through it to the engine.  So pull lanyard it will crank it won't have spark and it won't run the fuel pump.  If you hear fuel pump that circuit is OK but the spark is still dead then you need to go down another rabbit hole.

Hearing the fuel pump should indicate the lanyard is working typically that's inline with the fuel system's relays so probably that's already eliminating one bit.

RTP-1 is probably a MEFI-5 so https://www.bakesonline.com/media/resourcelibrary/Indmar_MEFI5-5Amanual.pdf

@The_MS oh rich.  What of the "why would anyone think an open bow ski boat is a fully safe open bow boat and people should know better and take personal reasonability to not operate the boat incorrectly"

Here's the thing no one is selling jump ramps to the general public and installing them on public lakes between 1 and 3 ball.  Its a controlled environment it is precisely the type of controlled environment in which things that are relatively not safe are permissible because of the controlled environment. 

But you better 100% believe that Malibu's lawsuit was appropriate based on that comment because we're talking about the same guy.

1 hour ago, Drago said:

@Scott RussellWell, the 91-94 prostar did have  a great wake, but also a tremendous amount of "spray " ( I’m looking for a word that describes golfball-sized spray)

 

Pelting.

@Mastercrafter did the Ilmor swap on one I know he had it up for sale I'm not sure if he moved it or not.  

Trailer shops exist for fixing this sort of stuff, they'll probably cut that whole section out and put in a new rail.

30 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Jody_Seal I don't know maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. when I was a kid whenever we got a new boat the first thing we did was remove a little c clip off of a post on the side of the carburetor. then we would slide the connected arm off that post. the result was the secondaries wouldn't kick in slalom. we would of course reconnect it for a jump. My memory is clear. my description may suck.

The secondary thing was more about how they closed vs. how they opened.  

@Scott Russell I mean do it but remember there have already been lawsuits and settlements so if you're doing it commercially best of luck!

@DW issue with that is the best time to install an EFI is right after you make sure its running perfectly on a carb, not when you're having running concerns.

If you cannot make your boat run on its carb its not going to run well on aftermarket EFI.

3 minutes ago, Scott Russell said:

So is does work precisely the same as stand alone EFI systems. Thank you, that is excellent news. 

I think what he stated is that it works opposite of stand alone systems?  

I'm just trying to be clear with expectations because I personally agree if you could take a late 80s early1990s era boat and drop a throttle body on it and plug in a ZO head unit and be off to the races I think that would be something a lot of us vintage ski boat owners would but I think Zero Off purposefully designed their system to make that difficult to impossible. 

Could that be due to the PP/ZO agreement?  Sure but I doubt it, I don't think PP could complain if you could buy a sniper EFI from Holley and a ZO head unit retail plug em together and run it.  I think this has more to do with ZO driving a market on new boats and the difficulty in retroing that back.

@Horton ski great yes.  Live in a ski community with other boat owners and pull an event?

@Scott Russell

I think you basically are putting the cart before the horse.

The tournament regulation sort of allows you to use a vintage boat but practically speaking doesn't you basically would need to have a recent late model boat to pull anything that people are going to want.

But from a ZO perspective from what I can tell they've put part of their control software into the head unit and part of it into the ECU so that neither aspect stands alone their engine management certainly isn't just taking a potentiometer input from the head unit.

15 minutes ago, jpwhit said:

This is my understanding of the situation. They did at one time, but the patent suit settlement between Perfect Pass and Zero Off divided the market between ZO covering all DBW applications and Perfect Pass covering all Mechanical throttle applications. Basically PP had patents on mechanical throttle and ZO had patents on DBW. So PP discontinued their DBW support. 

That but also even if you get a DBW module, which they are for sale from time to time including on great lakes skipper its not like there is a standard for it to communicate with Sniper EFI.

The wiring pin out for them is; RQST is the request line, when the PP module engages that's the signal from PP to the ECM, the ECM when it detects the request then the STAT line gets voltage and the PP display beeps to confirm engagement, and then from there the VGOV is the RPM level return.

How you would get Sniper to communicate with it?  I have no clue that'd be an entire extra layer of programming.  I'm sure it has some input/output for cruise control maybe?

57 minutes ago, Scott Russell said:

I didn't realize perfect pass was cable operated. Good to know. I've only looked at ZERO Off so far. 

PP is a slackening device when the servo pulls tight your throttle cable works 100% like factory.  but as the servo feeds out slack the throttle arm on the carb (or throttle body or potentiometer) goes towards idle pulled by the return spring. so you just swap out the brass fitting on the end of the throttle cable and install the servo unit then install the dash and computer box and click in the wiring.  couple splices for power and tach and done.

@Scott Russell as mastercraft inserted its not that ZO only works with throttle by wire boats its that Zero Off is a product of E Controls Technologies and E Controls Technologies is the maker of the engine management software used by all the boats.

I've opinioned that E-Controls needs to come up with their own throttle body system to repower these old boats but that isn't their market.

Holley etc. don't run E-Controls so no shortcut to ZO there.  There should be one but sadly no.

@Beezer Instructions to people always need to be relative to what they're doing which is the struggle about things in slalom waterskiing because what you're trying to do is steer people towards an outcome.

I personally DO push on my feet, I push on my feet alot.  But I also ride a trick ski around if you've never learned to get up on a trick ski you should.  So for me I basically get in my ball, back heel in my butt, Arms straight, Head up, and as I feel the need to hold onto the handle that's right where I have enough pressure on the ski to essentially stand up.  Which is no different than doing a "submarine" start on a trick ski.  Say hit it, ball down on the ski underwater, feel the handle go tight and you can basically just stand up.  IF the ski is under you not in front of you.  And the "back foot butt" thing is just about figuring out how to make sure the ski is more under you than between you and the boat.  / vs | otherwise if you "push" on your feet you stand the ski up in the water column and then when the throttle comes on you get collapsed.

On 9/27/2023 at 3:15 PM, Wish said:

Wish the 1997 196 mold was laying around for someone to do the same with. 👍

Molds for these hulls don't just last for ever there they require upkeep, service, repair, and replacement.  So even if someone had the mold you're going to need to make new molds every so often so even if the first mold was free it won't be for long.

@buechsr the funny thing is a TON of people buy stripped down boats they just don't buy them from Mastercraft, or Nautique, or even sanger.

The seadoo switch pontoon comes in with the 2.3L turbo indmar ecoboost at 45K.

Start ignoring "pretending" that the boat is a stripped down ski boat and make it a budget conscious multisport boat with that engine and you sell them though a brand like seadoo and you sell 10,000 of them a year and that's how you make a stripped down ski boat and reach the intended audience and then if that boat happens to be good enough for a few people here?  Maybe a handful don't buy the used ski boat.

Have to change the conditions first - can you get a fan in there anything to prevent the dew point from causing condensation?

1 hour ago, DW said:

@BraceMaker - a category not included in above post:   BOS members, slalom addicts, pro skiers, etc. 

Yes those people were purposefully excluded are any of them going to buy this Sanger for 70++ instead of __________________ buying a used MC/SN/Malibu?

Look you want to sell a bunch of boats? Look at the boats that are selling like hotcakes by everyone who isn't those three, we know what they are selling and that's wake barges and a handful of ski boats.  My local marina sells several hundred 19-24' I/O boats a year the other several marinas around me same thing Cobalts Four Winns etc.  They sell a metric ton of pontoon boats.  

Unless you think you're creating a market for a new buyer (this boat doesn't) then you need to be targeting someone to buy it.  The vast majority of new boat sales in the US are like I just mentioned the 19'-24' run about or bass boats and if you can blend a ski boat into that market you can create a market that IMO doesn't exist buyers like myself if that boat exists are replacing several boats with a single boat - if you can make it.  Again this is not that boat to me this is like what would I do if I wanted to have my same 1990s boat but have it cost 60K more.