Survey: Injuries and Bindings

[danbirch]

I'm sorry, but he attacked the water ski database first, and did so again in THIS THREAD. I have responded to him here for that reason. You say it's not ok for me to answer him? Maybe you need to re-read his post.

[Ed_Obermeier]

If you'll carefully reready the words that I wrote Dan you'll see that nothing I posted was aimed at you personally, it was a general call to use caution in how the question was answered.   You think this kind of info doesn't get used in lawsuits?  Lawsuits take time to surface, sometimes years.  Thou doth protest too much Dan which I find both humurous and curious.  That you saw fit to make it personal only calls your intentions into question even more. 

All that aside, why did you decide to make it personal Dan?  Your cheap shot at me and my "low tech slalom courses" not only makes you look childish but was actually a pretty good laugh for me (after all, slalom courses by their nature actually are pretty "low tech").  But more to the point it calls your original intentions even more into question.  I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my original post (reread my words again Dan), it was not aimed at you personally.  I was not the only person here who questioned your intentions, I was merely the first to throw the flag.

If you want to make it personal that's your problem. All you've really acomplished here (IMO of course) is to make people question those intentions even more.  Which only serves to justify the intent of MY original post.  All help sincerely appreciated.

Ed 

[danbirch]

ShaneH wrote: "If you wish to join this discussion, feel free. Please tell those who are in the discussion why you feel your db has merit."

 

I am happy to answer your question. While it is in no way a perfect survey, There were some interesting insights shed. Some major manufactures of bindings even were helped by the reports, which if we don't ask for injury reportings, then HOW WILL WE KNOW if we are advancing towards SAFER products? The information highway is a very valuable asset, if used. Other's just sit back and say, "you can't know anything, so don't even try". I'm just not one of those.

[danbirch]

Ed,

 

It was an accurate evaluation of the product. I am sorry if you found it offensive. Your claims that these "lawsuits" may take years to surface is ridiculous. There ARE NO lawsuits, and there will be NO lawsuits. What year do you want me to re-address this, to demonstrate that to you?

 

-Dan

[Marco]

Dan- you are traveling down a slippery slope.  Lawsuits DO take years to surface, and your "low tech" comment was intentionally stated as an insult.  Like I said earlier, either take this to the WSF where it will fit in in in it's current, unfortunate climate, or better yet, leave it alone.

[danbirch]

Thanks, Marco. You and Ed can accuse me of creating a simple Ski Injury Survey to assist some imaginary lawsuit, and it's NOT OK for me to defend my intentions? Please post ANY evidence of a pending lawsuit...ANY. There is none, and you guys are creating this whole thing. Again, I am answering both of you, not attacking you.

[Marco]

Dan-  I personally have no issue with your survey, and was one of the first to respond to it.  I have a somewhat vested interest because of my own binding related injury.  My point is that (IMO), it is acceptable to discuss differing opinions, but not to make personal attacks.  Ed, and others, have concerns relating to the (mis)use of unofficial data, and while I personally don't share those concerns, i completely support other's right to discuss the issue.  I also support your right to defend your position.  Keep it civil is all I am saying...

[Ed_Obermeier]

Danbirch wrote "Ed, It was an accurate evaluation of the product. I am sorry if you found it offensive. Your claims that these "lawsuits" may take years to surface is ridiculous. There ARE NO lawsuits, and there will be NO lawsuits. What year do you want me to re-address this, to demonstrate that to you? -Dan"  

No Dan, you're not sorry.  You're not very good at insults either but keep trying if you like.  Seasons over now and a little humor is always welcome here.

The last time I'll adress this.  No one has accused you personally Dan of attempting to forment some sort of lawsuit.  Although the amount of protesting you're doing here has got to now make anyone reading this wonder why you're so adamant about getting more information for your "database" if you're not trying to pull something.  I did not accuse you of that, no one has accused you of that.  Reread my words again and use a dictionary this time so you can accurately define what each word I wrote actually means.   

I will ask you this though - how do YOU know this info WON'T be used by someone in that manner, whether that is your intent or not?  Where is YOUR proof, where is your evidence of that?  That was my only intent in  suggesting caution, nothing more.  That you took it as a personal attack on you by me strikes me as just weird.  Whatever you've been trying to accomplish, your childish personal attacks and your endless protesting have likely effectively ended any additional input you were ever hoping to get here.  Protest away. 

Ed

[dski]

Well, I just sprained my ankle pretty good over the weekend in my new Strada's. After repeated warnings of 'Don't tighten them too much...' I did just that. Front foot only came out about half way. Ouch. Dang it.

[GAJ0004]

I have never had more than a sprained ankle. It was usually happened on old traditional rubber bindings(7-8 seasons old). I am on the D3 leverage double boots. They are a little stiffer than what I used to use, but I still can bend my ankles. With traditional bindings I would use the same ski and binding manufacturer. I used to use the front boot and rear toe plate, but switched to the double boot a few years back. I would never go back to the rear toe plate. You don't want to fall where one foot comes out, and the other does'nt. I have never tried hardshell bindings. I am almost afraid to.

[danbirch]

Brent,

 

Are you the same "Brent" on the WSF who bragged about trying to foil my injury database survey by submitting several bogus survey's?

[thager]

YAWN!! This is really boring. It's not paranoia if it's true. Got lithium? Electroshock?

[ForrestGump]

Dan, give it a rest. The fact that someone could submit bogus ones goes a long way to showing why Ed brought up what he did. I, too, see issues with the survey.  Raw data, without weighting, is somewhat meaningless out of context. For one thing, you have to weight the data against production data of the individual binding systems.  So if you have one system with far more injuries, is it really unsafe? Or did that mfr just produce more which statistically should show a higher number of injuries. But without that weighting, how is someone to know how to interpret the data?  And what if someone purchased a system based on your database because it showed fewer injuries and then injured themselves? Only to find out later that if the data had been weighted against production data that it would have shown a far higher injury rate per unit sold. 

[h2odawg79]

These kind of threads are what make Lurkers... Not members, -just lurkers...http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-frown.gif

[danbirch]

Brent, I guess your answer is YES. That was what I thought.

 

If you really hate WSF, why to you and your friends all visit it? We welcome everyone, including you. Neither you or ShaneH sound very "civil" in you last posts. I asked a simple yes/no question, and you go off on me....Whatever.

[ForrestGump]

How was my post not civil? I thought I did a pretty good job of detailing why I thought there were issues, without being derogatory.

[HO 410]

Posts south of October 7 disappear in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.........

[danbirch]

ShaneH,

 

You asked me to give it a rest. I am happy to. Do you want me to answer your questions, or to give it a rest?

[Stevie Boy]

Bindings are a Individual thing, they all have their Pros & Cons, the correct fitment is probably the most important thing ( I see People heaving on that lace to get it just a bit tighter ) and that is down to the indvidual who is using it. Had a couple of skiing buddies break their ankles in the last six weeks, both were bounced off the bouy, much the same as OTF if you are not in the right place or in good shape "GIVE IT UP ! " the most you are going to gain  is maybe 1 1/2 bouys before its over anyway, I used to take the hits but as I got older ,I got wiser, there are "Bold Skiers" and "Old Skiers" but no "Bold Old Skiers"

[Stevie Boy]

Final comment from me, I agree with Richarddoane waterskiing is a dangerous sport and the warnings are clearly stated when purchasing equipment.

Boat, Bouys, Ropes, Handles, Skis, Bindings and Human Error.

 If you do not want to get hurt  "STAY ON THE DOCK"

 Oh! and by the way, the "DOCK IS FOR PUSSIES"  

[Horton]

I am on vacation and do not have the time to read all this so i am going to just lock this thread down.

I want this forum to be used for open and free debate but if some of you are going to get too worked up, I have to send you all to a safe corner.

[Horton]

I finally read most of this. (in a bar - on my phone) I firmly believe that 9 out of 10th of these arguments would not happen in person. Posts do not carry the tone of the message. This thread may have had value but as soon as you guys get grumpy I have to lock it down.