O'Brien Siege vs. Connelly Concept

[jthomas]

Hi everybody,

I'm looking to buy a slalom ski and I have it narrowed down between a O'Brien Siege with Double Targa Bindings or a Connelly Concept with Double Stoker Plates. Both would be 68s.

I would say I am an intermediate skier. Weight 195 and stand 6'2". I have never used a double boot slalom ski before but from research it sounds like to get to the next level I should move to one. I have been using a basic slalom ski from a combo set so far. Which one of these skis do you guys recommend? What about the bindings? How do the O'Brien Targa Bindings compare to the Connelly Double Stoker Plates?

I found both skis at Overtons.com - the Siege is $250 and the Concept is $420 at Overtons.com.

$250 for the Siege seems like a really good deal. Is the Concept worth the extra money?

Or is there another ski I should consider?  I would like to keep the price under $450.

Thanks

[Dirt]

I have not ridden the Siege or Concept (not since the late 80s) but I know several people who have ridden the Radar Senate. I have not heard/read anything negative about the ski. It is high quality and inexpensive. Search Ball of Spray for Senate or Senate C (carbon version) and you can read for yourself what people have posted on here. Hopefully some others will post with specific information about the Siege and Concept for you. Good luck.

[Old MS Accout]

Stay away from both.

 Look on ski- it- again for some great deals on used skis that will be good for you.  

There are probably people on this site that will have some good stuff for you to buy.

[Horton]

I do not know about the current Connelly Concept. Connelly has made a good product since the 60s. I am Super Impressed with the Connelly V.

I do know that the Siege comes from the old Sixam II mold. That is a good shape and proven ski. Can not go wrong with that ski.

As Smart said: the Radar stuff is all great. Maybe the best complete mid / lower level ski line in the industry (not a bad ski in the catalog).  You would want the Theory model. It is a personal fav of mine for skiing below 32 mph.

MS is right about used gear at Ski-It-Again.

I would also suggest that you not go with double boots. For entry level boots I like Wiley or Radar. I do not have anything bad to say about the Connelly or the O'Brien - I just have not looked at them.

Below is me on the Connelly V. I tested it last year at 30 MPH & 34 MPH. The ski feels great at 30 but is a little hairy at 34  Review at http://www.ballofspray.com/gear-reviews/574-connelly-v-review

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_4-6ay9R-bLE/THAJ78dEAqI/AAAAAAAADoM/Rt47rPPZPbs/s400/DSC_4788.jpg

Welcome to BallOfSpray. Let us know what other questions you have. Remember, none of us listen to MS.

[Old MS Accout]

Horton,

Unless you know somthing I dont, the Siege was around long before the sixams.

My neighbor PJ will add some comments here about what a POS the Siege is and how it took years off of his progress.

The concept would not be bad but stay away from the Siege. If you want to go the OB route, try the syncro.  

[thager]

Looked at one earlier. Is definately from a Sixam mold but is softer.

[Old MS Accout]

The Siege is a streamlined ski designed for speed and stability. With a tunnel concave, edge changes are effortless and the ski turns on a dime. A softer flex and increased rocker make this ski feel stable right out of the box.

 

Features:

FLEX - Performance

FIN - A.R.C.

ROCKER PATTERN – Smooth transitions from edge to edge.

TUNNEL CONCAVE – Quick, easy edge changes and amazing tracking

BEVELS – a small, defined bevel means a faster, easier turning ski

 

The last time I rode a Sixam 2 it had no tunnel.  

[swc5150]

I had a Siege, and it was the worst ski I've ever ridden!  I got it free from Obrien, a sales incentive thing, and that's about all it was worth!  It's light years from a Sixam.

[Old MS Accout]

Thager has taken to many OTFs 

[jjackkrash]

I have very fond memories of my Concept. It took me from barely running 34 mph to running 32off@36mph in college. I thought it was very stable and predictable and a great intermediate ski. I am not sure how much they have changed since the early-mid 90s but I doubt they changed it very much.

 

If I ever find the crack head who stole it out of my garage with the rest of my equipment it won't be pretty.

[CsSkis]

The current 64.5/66/67.5/69 Siege does indeed come from the same (shape) mold as the Sixam 2.  It has a hyperbolic concave "tunnel", so the O'Brien ad copy is somewhat misleading.  The Sixam 2, as Horton and others have said, is a very good ski for speeds up to 34mph.  I have skied on it (Sixam 2) myself, and three of my ski buddies are currently riding them.  The main difference between the Siege and Sixam 2 is the flex and weight.  The Siege is softer and heavier than the Sixam 2 due to its fiberglass construction.

[PJ]

I rode a Siege for 3 seasons. (i didn't know any better at the time) i could finally muster a 36mph pass at 15 off with it. it is based on the old Mapple with a softer flex. The targa bindings are OK. they are slightly adjustable. you will probably want something a little more fitting after you get used to the boots. it won't take you too long to get used to double boots. take your combo out and practice getting up with both feet in if you aren't getting up that way already. you will enjoy much faster progress on some of the other skis mentioned above. anything is going to have more width (surface area) than the siege. you will definitely want that to hone your technique at the slower speeds.

[CsSkis]

The old Siege was indeed based on a "Mapple" shape.  The new Siege (for the past few years) is the Sixam 2 shape.

[CsSkis]

Overtons Item #13347 is the old style Siege.  Item #14733 is the current Siege with the Sixam 2 shape.

[thager]

Na-na-na MS!! Eat doo doo. Yes, I have taken too many OTF's!

[Horton]

Let my pull back the curtain on a common practice in sporting goods

Out dated  high end models get rebranded as low end models and are built with less expensive materials.

In the case of the Siege.

 I think at one time it was made from the KD Lithium mold that was previously the KD 3000.  

The current Siege is the old Sixam 2.0

Point is that from year to year a specific model may or may not be the same design as the previous year.

I suspect that the current Connelly Concept is not relation to the ski from the late 1980s – not sure.

MS,

Remember that year you came to Bako for Nationals and skied like a little girl. I beat the pants off you on a Sixam 2.0. It is a super forgiving ski.

[Horton]

jthomas,

Call H2oProShop. Tell them I sent you. You will get good info and free shipping.

[Horton]

This is by far the most posts ever about a mid range ski!

[Dirt]

I personally like double boots but many skiers that are far better than me (which is not saying much) prefer a rear toe plate. I think an actual slalom ski (as opposed to one of the combo skis) will take you to the next level and then some. You may or may not like double boots. Coaching and/or videos on correct technique will help you improve. You have probably picked up bad habits from the combo ski. 

[Jody_Seal]

I have been skiing on the Sixam 2Point now for three years and wish Obrien would continue to build the ski. I am told that the current seige skis very similar to the 2 Point but as some one else pointed out it is a glass ski and heavier. I have seen the Seige on Evil-Pay for under $200.00 .

I am currently on the search for a 66" Blue top Sixam 2 Point if any one has one with very little ride time or new and wants to get rid of it I am a player.

[Old MS Accout]

The Sixam 2 Rocks. It is a great ski and I ran some big scores on it at the tests.

The Seige would make a great bench seat.

Horton,

That was the worst Nats ever. I bought a brand new Monza within 2 hours of that exibition.

Thager,

Get to work.     

 

[swc5150]

Hey MS,
Aren't you supposed to be working the show right now!  See you in two hours...

[Old MS Accout]

I am not there until Sat. If anyone is going to the MPLS boat show on Saturday, stop by the Son watersports booth. 

[jthomas]

Thanks for all the replies!!! I forget this forum didn't have email notifications on replies so I didn't think anybody replied. Boy was I wrong.

 

Anyway I currently start with both feet in the ski. All deep water starts. I'll probably get crap for admitting this but I use a deep-V (cheater rope). That is what I learned on and I have been using it since.

 

I need to do some more reading about Radar I am not familiar with that brand. I looked at Ski-It-Again but I didn't recognize hardly any of the brands. Looks like I have more reading to do.

 

What about shaped skis? Should I consider one or stick to a performance ski?

 

Also do you guys have any videos you recommend for improving slalom skills? I'm in Iowa and there is not a ski school anywhere close so I figured a good video would at least help until I could possibly make a trip to a school.

[Horton]

Sorry about the lack of email notices. That is part of the fabled and floundering BOS 2.0 project. Some day… I will get that going

As for a shaped ski, the O’Brien Synchro is one of the best designed mid/low level skis ever. The bad news is O’Brien had to recut the mold last year so I have not ridden the latest version. Adam, the engineer at O’Brien swears it is even better than the original version. (We like and trust Adam)

As for other shaped skis, they tend to be easy to get up on and ski around on but when you want to refine your skills they are a mess. Hell! I have a few in my ski room. If you want something cheap to ride…. I will take your money but I do not think it is a good long term good move if you want to progress as a skier. Those skis are great if you ski a few times a year.

 As for beginner videos, I do not think so. Not that I know of. The Innertube (internet) has more bad information than good. Crap like this is funny but totally wrong. http://www.ehow.com/video_4989940_hard-cut-slalom-water-skiing.html 

Please pepper the Ballers with your questions. Please feel free to use this forum to better understand the sport we all love. There are not dumb questions and there is no shame in the deep V. We all started somewhere. (I started when I was 3 but that is another story)

[Horton]

almost forgot... lets make this harder.... I love love love all the HO Skis in the Triumph line....

[jthomas]

The Radar Theory looks promising. None of the Radar skis are shaped correct? Sounds like I should stay away from shaped skis.

 

What are you thoughts on the Theory? I don't have a course available to ski on so all of my skiing will be free riding.

[MCskiFreak]

The first ski that I learned to run a course on was a triumph, and now I'm skiing on a Radar Senate. Both are excellent skis, I do some free skiing and both will suit your needs I would think. The Triumph is a little more forgiving, and easy to get up on with a wider foot print than the senate...the triumph is what I've been using to teach friends to slalom ski on. Either way you cant go wrong.

[Chef23]

The Theory would be an excellent ski to learn to run the course on. I would definitely look at one of the newer designs. I did run the course on a shaped HO into 28 off at 34 mph when I first got back into skiing so the skis are capable of running the course. My little guy has run 30 mph at 15 off on a smaller HO shaped ski. I haven't skied the triumph though

[jthomas]

Funny how this thread has evolved and changed what I was originally thinking. I looked at the HO Triumph and that looks like a great ski as well. Currently it looks like it is between the Radar Theory and HO Truimph. From my understanding they are both course capable skis but are a bit wider to make them more forgiving and easier to get up on and geared toward free riding.

 

What about bindings? What do I need to know in that department. I think I want to go the double boot route.

[Horton]

Crazy. It is almost like the Ballers where helpfull and gave good info. That does not happen every day. :- )

[MCskiFreak]

I am a big fan of the radar bindings, cant speak to double boots, tried those for a season and couldn't get comfortable with them. When I was using the Triumph I HO venom bindings and they were not comfortable to be in for long periods. The Radars on the other hand are much better for being in for an extended period of time.

[jthomas]

Everybody has been very helpful!!!