Baller G_Harry_Stine Posted February 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2012 Greetings, class. Let us start today’s lesson with 2 statements that have proven the test of time: Truth #1. The unexamined life is not worth living. Truth #2. Practicing failure nearly always results in failure. The first is a tad heavy, and you may be wondering where I can possibly go with it in relation to skiing. Stick with me. The second is rather self-evident, but can still make so little difference in behavior for so many skiers, even veterans. I have spent over 30 years of Springs, and no few Winters, watching so many skiers completely defy these two timeless truths that I start to question their sanity. I am talking about extremely smart people in the workplace, very successful in all phases of their life, but they are completely insane when it comes to skiing. If a definition for insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly, yet expecting a different result, then the two skiers in the following examples have their picture in the dictionary. The Professor skied with some friends last Spring who are running slalom at 90%, or greater, FAILURE rate. I’m talking veterans, decades of slalom skiing, who never consider Truth #1 and, therefore, are a victim of Truth #2. Let’s take a look at some real numbers from some real people. Skier A loves to Winter ski, which is quite easy in _____, his home. He even agrees that Winter skiing, averaging once a week, should involve running passes and staying dry. Falling is to be avoided. So what does he do? From October through March, he runs about 40 sets, at least 6 passes per set. He has completed, actually run, no more than 15 passes, some sets not making a single pass. He has either trailed, or fallen, over 220 passes. That is over a 90% failure rate according to my slide rule. Plus, he refuses to slow the boat or lengthen the rope. Class, this is insanity; his approach to skiing goes without examination (Truth #1) and, therefore, he does nothing but practice failure (Truth #2). Skier B does no Winter skiing, but comes out in March to begin the season. He steps right out of his vehicle, onto the dock, puts his ski on, and starts with his usual opener. No warmup, no free skiing, no shadowing, just automatically resuming everything from 5 months ago, October, when he last skied. He does not run a pass the first set (6 tries), runs a very shaky pass the second set, and immediately shortens the rope. Shall we guess the results? So the first day back after at least 5 months of no skiing, skier B is 1 for 12. In case you are keeping score at home, that, too, is over 90% failure. Unfortunately for Skier B, this is repeated about 10 days later, his second time back. Now he is still sore from the first time and figures he needs to ski to get back in shape. But instead of skiing, he practices falling. No warmups to get the juices flowing. No slowing the boat to actually run some passes. No lengthening the rope to actually build up some rhythm. No shadowing to actually ski the length of the lake to build a little stamina. In other words, he approaches his skiing UNLIKE any other phase of his life -- totally unexamined, and (let’s say it together) spends his time practicing failure. Class, I would say this is insanity, but I would be repeating myself. The Professor has been with skier B the 10 sets he attempted this last Spring. Our skier is 4 for 60, yet the next time he skis, he will repeat the same process. In fact, skier B is beyond upset that things are not like they were just 5 short months ago and he is beginning to think that skiing is just not that much fun anymore. Class, if the fun in slalom is going around the balls, then I can understand our two skier’s frustrations. They are always trailing or falling, and how much fun is that? Of course skiing is supposed to be fun! But, it is an athletic event that takes some real attention to detail. Could we, by chance, learn a little something from the people who do this skiing thing for a living? There is not a professional skier in the world who does not do some kind of warmup activity. I’m not talking about the Winter months of weights or gym or cycling (hit a sore spot, anybody?). I’m talking about 10 minutes before their turn to ski. Hopping out of your vehicle and onto the water just makes no sense. Would our skiers approach any other sport this way? (Well, bowling, perhaps, but don't distract The Professor.) I know, class, that you have read countless articles on returning to the water after a long Winter of no skiing. They all encourage slowing the boat, lengthening the line, shadowing the balls the first few sets, establishing some rhythm. But when is the last time you saw that employed? Certainly not from our examples above, and remember, skiers A and B are veterans of decades of skiing. They should know better than anyone. In addition, do you ever see the professionals (or Big Dawgs) ski one pass before their most difficult pass? No! They usually run at least three, if not four passes, before their money pass. How do our pros approach training? They run passes! A big part of their sessions are what we call muscle memory sets. They run the same pass, at least two or three below their money pass, until they are blue in the face. Then they run it some more until they are sick of it, only they never get sick of it because they are building confidence and training muscles with repetition. Going around the balls has never been known to make one sick. Class, I hope you get my point. Examine what you are doing. Don’t practice failure. Don’t reinforce bad habits. Do whatever it takes to go around those balls. Run a ton of passes before that next loop. Reinforce success. Practice good technique, consistently. You will be glad you did, and when you cruise around 6 ball and out the gate, you will always be reminded of why our sport is so great and so much fun. A Good Ski Season To All, The Professor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted February 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2012 I don't think the prof is dispensing bad advice. I know some skiers feel similarly, but still get carried away chasing PB's from time to time. It never hurts to be reminded of things we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2012 I know some guys who resemble those described, but to a lesser extent and thus a lesser failure rate. These guys finally scramble out of a pass they have been working on and shorten up only to fall a bunch on a pass they have no hope of making. Personally, I hate falling. I typically will start the spring at my 28 opener, but I will make it. Then I'll run a bunch more of them and call it a set. Probably won't see 32 off for 10 sets or so then will run a pile of those before I start looking at 35 and need to be smoking those before looking at 38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jedgell Posted February 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 12, 2012 I know someone that has more than a 90% failure rate, regardless of the time of year. Unwilling to slow the boat down so he can run the passes. I dont understand it, but his choice. This will be my first season starting in M3. I usually start at 34 and stay there for several at least a month before bumping it to 36. This year maybe I'll start at 32 for a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Marco Posted February 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not sure that I needed a lecture, but I always start my season a line length longer than my usual opener (-28). After a few sets, I'll start running 28's and stay there until comfortable, then onto 32, 35 etc. It usually takes me 2 months before I get back to where I left off the season before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 13, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 13, 2012 @g_harry_stine I find no AWSA records for you, who's going to listen to a professor that's not credible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller T-fromTO Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't mind that Harry isn't a pro skier and I found the "Professor" schtick made the post more entertaining. He's not trying to put forth any new radical theories (one would need some credibility for that), he's just reiterating some common sense. I can relate to the post because there are guys like skier A and B at my ski club. Their egos are too big to allow them to slow down or use longer line lengths and they are so stuck in their ways that they wouldn't listen if someone tried to change their sets. And they never improve, year after year they ski the same. I don't get it, but there really are people out there who don't seem to want to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 it's about having a good time, so if your definition of fun is blowing passes, then more power to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller danbirch Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 It's a personal decision. Many like the enjoyment of improving. Others may feel there is added risk (of injury) with pushing the envelope, so prefer to just have fun instead. It's a lot of fun either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 Shoot! For me just doing a deep water start is pushing the envelope! When I get out of the water it is an improvement and pulling out for the gates is risk of Injury!!! However it is pure Enjoyment and Good time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 @OB, I'm with you on the point that a full pass at any speed/line length is better than a missed pass, but some people just want to ski their own way. "the professor" is absolutely correct in his comments about reinforcing good habits is the way to improve, not just repeating the same mistakes. I used to ski with a guy years ago who would miss his -22 opener, shorten and run most of -28, shorten again and then miss a bunch of -32's. But if you asked him later, "how'd you ski today?", his answer would be, "great, I got 4 @ -32". It's just a matter of perspective, as @danbirch said, as long as it's making you smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 It's not fun when they act surprised or upset about the fact that they are blowing passes we know they can't make time after time, set after set, day after day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 How does Ginger feel. I mean feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 maryann was hotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Lieutenant Dan Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 "MahryAhn isn't MaryAhn anymore because MahryAhn is Gjunga" Thurston B. Howell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 And you guy's were giving me grief about Morgan Fairchild! look at ya! pervin on the Mary Ann And Ginger. Wait till I get recent photos of them for yall!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted February 15, 2012 Administrators Share Posted February 15, 2012 Please No. I just got the joke... please no pictures of pre historic TV stars Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 http://static.cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/70/3005bc72019f4f7dc09ad6fd0e47e4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller G_Harry_Stine Posted February 15, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 Greetings from The Professor, my friends. I see my musings from the previous post have stirred a few comments and that is always good. The Professor, wishing to remain (mostly) anonymous, does wish to protect the guilty parties he described from any further self-inflicted abuse. He (She?) can also assure you of sterling, if not sparkling credentials from the all too distant past. So, examine the message and don't focus on the messenger. That being said, most of the replies were right on the money; skiers, just like any other sport, MUST pay attention to training methods in order to improve. And those training methods MUST facilitate and encourage correct, repetitive movements that ensure success, not failure. And we know too many skiers who ignore reality. If some of you have not run into these folks who refuse to check their egos at the dock, you just haven't skied long enough. Several of you had stories of just such people and, sadly, they are doomed to never improving. Now, The Professor agrees that fun can be achieved in different ways on the same ski, but we are limiting our discussion to tourney skiers who are diligently searching for that next PB. Class, let me repeat my theme about practicing failure; STOP IT!! Let's look at the pros in other sports and take note how they practice to get better at their chosen game. They do it by repeating fundamentals, pretty much on a daily basis. Do Dirk Nowitzski or LeBron James just play basketball every day of practice? Of course not. They run drills that reinforce success and train muscles to “memorize” certain movements. Do Derek Jeter or Josh Hamilton just play baseball every single day of practice? No. For crying out loud, you can see them hitting off of a tee, a drill I daresay some of our ski buddies would liken to lengthening the rope or slowing the boat. Heaven Forbid! Who are known to be two of the hardest working golfers on the driving range, sometimes going days without playing a single hole of golf? That would be Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. Reckon they know a thing or two about consistent, muscle memory practice? My friends, constantly skiing for a PB every set is anathema to improving your skiing. The Professor is into real people and real numbers, so let's look at some successful skiers. Understanding not all excellent skiers train the same way, you can bet the rent they do not seek a PB every set on the water. Skier A is a reigning National Champ and if anyone ever upset your boat concerning practice, it would be him. He loves to run a set of nothing but spins. Six passes to improve his strength, he says, never sitting down on either end. Or starting 1 pass below his opener and running 6 passes with both hands on the handle. Yep, BOTH hands on the handle at all times. Or a set of free skiing at the balls (he calls it pre-shadowing) while working on his most difficult loop. He figures he skis a tourney set about every third, maybe fourth set, but is always thinking correct technique. Skier B is a former National and World champion. She could never be confused for associating slalom with muscle strength. Barely tipping the scales at 120 lbs, her entire practice regimen was to ensure correct technique, then to hone that technique through repetition. She recognized that slalom is one of the most tiring sports one can engage, being pretty much an isometric exercise. Therefore, her practice sessions rarely involved more than 6 passes per set, and never more than two sets per day, never more than 3 days a week. Those sessions included running the loop 2 cuts below her money pass the entire set. In fact, the week of a tourney she NEVER ran a tourney set. Only technique enhancing, muscle memory, fundamental enforcing, successful mindset practices for this champion. As you might tell, The Professor can be rather loquacious about this subject, but passion rules and I want to see all of you good people improve in the sport we love so much. Heaven knows, you are free to ignore The Professor, but do so at your own peril. With improvement, the fun increases, and more fun is what our beloved sport is all about, so Cheers, The Professor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted February 15, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 15, 2012 In that pic, Ginger's hotter. I like The Professor stick but ya gotta stop saying "My friends". All I can see in my head is John McCain hunched over explaining all this. And I like JM. Just not telling me about skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hey Professor you sound a lot like Schnitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Marco Posted February 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 15, 2012 My thoughts exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller baja Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 The real G. Harry Stine was hailed as the father of model rocketry and has been dead for about 15 years. It seems safe to assume that our self appointed Professor is bored with winter and living in a snow bound climate in his mother's basement. He does have a keen grasp of the obvious in his writings which generally indicates that he is not an immediate danger to those around him. I really just wanted to vote for Ginger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 I seem to recall years ago s'one asked Andy what he was running in practice, wondering if he was running 41. He said he almost never practices 41 because it was more important in terms of winning tourneys to be able to go through 39 every time in a variety of conditions than to be able to crack off a 41 here and there. Seems that must have been 20 years ago in WSM, but stretching my memory there. I also vote for Ginger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted February 16, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 16, 2012 It is Schnitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 Wasn't Gertrude Stine Alice B Toklas's pothead friend? Any relation? Seriously, I cannot disagree more with what the professor says. If you push the envelope, failures are inevitable. How you deal with the failures determines the eventual outcome. If you fear failure, you can never succeed. Go ahead, cut that rope! The geometry is different for every harder pass. Rerunning your opener doesn't give you an understanding of the differences. It just wastes gas. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I like what the professor is saying and I think he would agree with you Eric, there is a time for cutting the rope. However, when I have worked with a pro and recieved lessons they had me run pass after pass at my longer line lengths. Once again this is because we are focusing on technique and there is no way you can do this properly at your shorter line lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essvar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Lurker here... but as a long time coach I must say the professor used a lot of words to state what I say on a daily basis. Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanence. And I am +1 for Ginger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted February 16, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted February 16, 2012 @Essvar - welcome to the BOS, congratulations on losing your "lurker" status ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted February 16, 2012 Supporting Member Share Posted February 16, 2012 @Essvar Welcome, indeed! Personally, I always say I get the most out of my easiest pass (-28) and my hardest pass (-38). -28 is where I really have the time to think and try to ski better. But -38 is fundamentally different even from -35 in some respects, and so it must be practiced to learn the geometry. I even find value in some -39 runs, even though it is nearly certain I will never run that in my life. So basically I agree with both Eric and some-guy-who-does-sound-a-lot-like-Schnitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted February 16, 2012 Supporting Member Share Posted February 16, 2012 Side story that I can't resist sharing: When I was about 17, I was on a summer trip with a lot of fellow track athletes from all around NJ. (I used to compete in the high jump.) Most of these folks were from very urban background. They found my way of speaking quite unusual, and within hours I had my permanent nickname for the next three weeks: Professor. Even the coaches called me that. I'm pretty sure it was meant to be midly insulting, but I actually really liked it! By the time I returned, it briefly seemed a little weird when people called me Than... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 I have a feeling I know who the Professor is. If I'm correct he's someone who gets paid to ski and coach and is highly regarded among most, if not all, on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 @jipster...I have a feeling I know what the winning lotto numbers are, but I'm wasting space not telling you what they are. Who you think it is? This cracks me up! Just get to point already huh OB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 I know what the last draw's lotto numbers are! Not mine though. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/dawn-wells-gilligans-island_n_1279792.html?ref=tv-replay&ncid=webmail5 "Practicing failure nearly always results in failure."?? How many unsuccessful light bulbs did Edison make before he got one to work? Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 Okay. At the risk of spoiling the game, my womanly intuition tells me it's Brooks Wilson, but I'm not a betting man. And again, did I mention I'm the worst skier on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 Okay. At the risk of spoiling the game, my womanly intuition tells me it's Brooks Wilson, but I'm not a betting man. And again, did I mention I'm the worst skier on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 What do most of us resort to when we are behind? "Bad habits" in the scramble. What if we create good habits thru repetition such that we are more likely to ski properly even if late? It's good to take some shots at the pass you cannot make at present to know what to work on at the longer line, but it doesn't pay to practice it extensively and reinforce bad habits in a scramble. I suppose if you like to find yourself again and again frustrated, neck deep in the water. Maybe I dislike being neck deep mid-course more than most. Cox told us his most frequently run pass has always been 32 off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 16, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 16, 2012 What do most of us resort to when we are behind? "Bad habits" in the scramble. What if we create good habits thru repetition such that we are more likely to ski properly even if late? It's good to take some shots at the pass you cannot make at present to know what to work on at the longer line, but it doesn't pay to practice it extensively and reinforce bad habits in a scramble. I suppose if you like to find yourself again and again frustrated, neck deep in the water. Maybe I dislike being neck deep mid-course more than most. Cox told us his most frequently run pass has always been 32 off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 My scrambles are some of my best skiing. In slalom competition, you ski until you fall or miss. Maybe an OCD skier can't train like that but it's a messy reality. And as an old guy with limited passes left in my body, training a tournament simulation is the most efficient way to get better - or at least minimize the aging losses. Didn't Than just admit to being the Professor? Or was that just because he really wanted MaryAnne? Or was he holding out his lottery numbers. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 My scrambles are some of my best skiing. In slalom competition, you ski until you fall or miss. Maybe an OCD skier can't train like that but it's a messy reality. And as an old guy with limited passes left in my body, training a tournament simulation is the most efficient way to get better - or at least minimize the aging losses. Didn't Than just admit to being the Professor? Or was that just because he really wanted MaryAnne? Or was he holding out his lottery numbers. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted February 17, 2012 Supporting Member Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ha, no. I am not THE professor. I am certainly known for long-winded pontification, but I'm a lot less presumptuous than this particular professor in telling someone how to have fun. I've never quite gotten the "Ginger or MaryAnne" thing. I guess if these were the last two women left on earth, I have to go with MaryAnne. But neither one does a thing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted February 17, 2012 Supporting Member Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ha, no. I am not THE professor. I am certainly known for long-winded pontification, but I'm a lot less presumptuous than this particular professor in telling someone how to have fun. I've never quite gotten the "Ginger or MaryAnne" thing. I guess if these were the last two women left on earth, I have to go with MaryAnne. But neither one does a thing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypresskier Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I still go by the words of the great Ken White. Whitey always said, "practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypresskier Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I still go by the words of the great Ken White. Whitey always said, "practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ginger is hotter than Marianne, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ginger is hotter than Marianne, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 The Professor-Robert Marking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted February 17, 2012 Baller Share Posted February 17, 2012 The Professor-Robert Marking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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