Baller ToddL Posted July 24, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 @elr There are no known lightweight ropes manufactured with loops beyond -35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller elr Posted July 24, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 @ToddL - I'm sure it will NOT become available - not with 10/11 year old girls running currently running into -35, no, NOT going to happen. . .. I'm sure Brenda would NOT make one for me if I called. Pretty sure those girls could NOT hold up a standard line either. Two year old on tied together trick skis at Nationals - not in our life time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 24, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 So, if we had the rule that the skier was not allowed to use a lightweight rope unless the starting speed was at or below 23 MPH, are you still concerned, @elr? Let's see... let's assume that B2 skier even started at -15. Pass 1. 37 (23.0) -15 Pass 2. 40 (24.9) -15 Pass 3. 43 (26.7) -15 Pass 4. 46 (28.6) -15 Pass 5. 49 (30.4) -15 Pass 6. 52 (32.3) -15 Pass 7. 55 (34.2) -15 Pass 8. 55 (34.2) -22 Pass 9. 55 (34.2) -28 Pass 10. 55 (34.2) -32 Pass 11. 55 (34.2) -35 Pass 12. 55 (34.2) -38 Pass 13. 55 (34.2) -39.5 Yep... I see that happening all the time in tournaments. I wonder what the record for the most number of consecutive passes (no re-rides/run-offs, etc) in a single tournament set is? I've seen a junior start at 17 and make it to 26.7, but that's only 6 passes. I've seen an adult start at -22 and make it to -38. That is only 5 passes. Nine consecutive passes is really unlikely. Thirteen? Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller elr Posted July 24, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think you're still allowed to opt up - I really think a cap is a better solution for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted July 24, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 The entertainment value of starting at 23 mph and then opting up to 32 off would be pretty awesome!! That said, I think it's pretty clear that a super-stretchy rope is horrible for deep shortline. Elongation only occurs under tension, so as you try to get out to the buoy, that rope is getting shorter. You're not getting any inches when you most it, and instead you're being bungeed downcourse. So I just don't think that's a concern. At the least, it's unlikely enough that we can wait to see it actually happen before doing anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted July 24, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted July 24, 2012 If the issue is IWSF rules, the solution is very simple: let each kid choose which rope to use. I've seen split divisions, for example E vs L within the same division. Only the higher end kids skiing deep shortline will need to choose the standard rope and they won't be starting at long line to begin with. Setting the criteria at some speed like 23mph still penalizes many kids. The real problem is the rope dragging in the water - which happens with light kids and at long line. Still a major problem for the 70 lb kid starting at 32mph long line. But he won't be concerned with IWSF standings anyway. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted July 24, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 A streatchy rope is not an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 24, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 Just a reminder... The current AWSA rules allow this skier to use a light rope with no restrictions on line length or starting speed. But they do not let this skier use one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMac Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Nice pictures. Ruth would probably be the one to break the youth line if it could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted July 24, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 24, 2012 Maybe the skier on the bottom should start working out as much as the skier on top. As lmfao would say " I work out" All the olds who don't get it, ask you kids Sorry......... it was a joke. Am I banned for life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 25, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 I, I, I, I work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted July 25, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 Notice she does not have the lighter rope. A stretchy rope is not an advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 25, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 @Drago - correct. Per my points to AWSA - Advanced and Bigger B2/G2 will NOT exercise the option to use a light rope. Thus, the perceived risk is self-mitigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted July 25, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 ToddL: I agree with you. Thought I was enhancing your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller elr Posted July 25, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 So . . . its OK to provide an advantage to the smaller skier that is useless to the bigger/stronger skier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted July 25, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 @elr. Yes, that is OK. But as usual the "spin" is important. We could also say "appropriate gear for a smaller skier" which of course is not appropriate gear for a larger skier. A 62" ski could be described in exactly the same way: it is an advantage to a smaller skier, but would be useless to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 25, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 @Drago - yep, you were! I was re-iterating. Thanks for your support on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 25, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 BTW - I am glad that @elr is contributing to the discussion. His opinions are no more or less important than my own. He has caused me to think about my proposal and fill in some gaps and clarify some elements. Also note: this thread started as a Poll. Less than 25% of those responded are against making a change. So the overwhelming majority (75+%) agree that B2 should have the option. If AWSA represents its membership, then there should be sufficient pressure to make some soft of change to "allow for appropriate equipment for a smaller skier". (Thanks @Than) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted July 25, 2012 Baller Share Posted July 25, 2012 A lighter rope will likely stretch, let's say, 1-2 feet with a kid that weighs 70 lbs. a "heavy" rope will stretch, oh, say, 1-2 feet with a 140 lb skier. Certainly Russel could measure this in the shop. Why do you continue to think a stretchy rope is an advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted July 31, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted July 31, 2012 I had a nice call with @Richelle today. Really awesome lady! We are lucky to have her on AWSA committees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted August 1, 2012 Baller Share Posted August 1, 2012 @ToddL and what the Ms. Rules have to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted August 1, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted August 1, 2012 Ms. Rules is supportive of the change and has been for many years. She confirmed that Technical committee (all of them) also recommended the change to the rules. The executive board decided against it. As I have recently learned, there was someone who described a single B2 skier and suggested that such a rope would be unsafe for him. Further a lawyer made a comment about insufficient load data to move forward without risk. I find it interesting that in the complete absence of empirical data, G2 and W6+ are allowed the option of the light rope, but B2 is not due to lack of empirical data. It seems inconsistent to me. BTW - rumor is that a load gauge may be available at the fall boat tests to gather the necessary empirical data. We may need some B2, G2, and W6+ skiers for context and data. I'll put out an official call for skiers once I know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted August 10, 2012 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2012 My son, weighing in at 75 lbs,wanted to try the big boy's rope since his next tourney is in B2. Usually runs 30-15 in tourney, and ran 1@28 in practice a few days ago( with jr rope). After 4 egg-beater falls at 26 point whatever (his opener) I made him stop. If this were 6 months ago, he would've quit (has just started growing into a confident kid).I'm talking him through it and telling him he will adapt and be ok, but honestly I'm not real sure. He says it starts at the gate with slack and yanks him forward from there. It's painful and scarey to watch.As I stated previously, It's not just long line. It would be like us adults using a no-stretch Kevlar line for slalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller harddock Posted August 10, 2012 Baller Share Posted August 10, 2012 The division has a range of 65 to 150lbs. What works for a 135lbs 5'5 13 yo may be overwelming for a 70 lb 4'8 10 yo. This is a novice division for the most part and we should not try to discourage anyones progress. If it means add a rope or redsign the division then maybe it should be looked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted August 13, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted August 13, 2012 Per Joe Darwin who is at the AWSA Nationals: "B2 light rope rule just passed the board. After Nationals, B2 will be able to use the youth slalom line." WE DID IT!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted August 20, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted August 20, 2012 @MAD11 Remember those cows at Frameswitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.webp.0a50dd72563036feadeb1f5c10a9e658.webp)
.webp.f4829138fd6b14097643dc702deb09b6.webp)
.webp.a30f66e5f4553a0ea06e4fe12520951c.webp)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now