Baller Ed_Johnson Posted October 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2012 Word is here in Orlando that the 2013 AM33 will be produced by Radar with a PVC Core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Is it going to be made with "traditional" technology our the the "RTM" like process that AM was using? If RTM, can we look forward to a RTM Strada in 2014 or 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Inboardfix Posted October 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2012 Pretty sure the AM was not RTM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted October 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2012 I hope this is a positive for AM skis and Andy. Regardless, he can still boast that they have a lake right out their back door for R&D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 RTM might not be the right term. I was referring to the process of pulling in the resin with a vacuum on the mold. It is my assumption that is a more consistent process. Either way, sounds like an exciting relationship for both. I want to try the AM, but I've trying to get more consistent on my current ride first. Stradas are already great. It would be interesting if this would improve their existing process / performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotb35 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What was wrong with the hollow core? Why did Adam Cord leave? Where did he go? Was it RTM or not? why is it after all this time their website doesnt have any products? Why do Goode skis still dominate? Are they profiting from all those phone in orders that they're so busy with that they cant set up an online ordering form? They went independent to take things to another level. Is he going back to Radar to take things to another level again? Where's the level cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted October 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2012 @skiray From what I saw, the AM33 was a multi-piece composite. Top half and bottom half that were layed up seperately, then bonded together. Trick idea. There are big differences in vacuum bag compression molding and RTM. Keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 13, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted October 13, 2012 Wonder if the price will come down a bit? Those that baught a hollow ski really have one of the most unique ski products to come along in decades. I hold on to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 13, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2012 I was curious how they got the 3 bits to secure together accurately, must have had beautifully fitted edges to each peice to pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sullivan Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Is Adam no longer with Andy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 So they are saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 @shaneh - I appreciate the info. I didn't realize that was the design. I saw the pictures and made an incorrect assumption. I guess it's true what they say about assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @Brent details are out a while ago...some are just not privy to them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Rumor has it that Adam Cord is working with Adam Caldwell on potentially another ski project....so I hear. Interesting that the AM Ski is going away from the hollow core. So does that mean that AM Skis will not be manufacturing any skis out of Orlando. I guess they will just use that eqquipment to make proto types and test the design there and let Radar figure out the manufacturing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotb35 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 so now he's not doing a hollow core? Man, if there's one thing I've learned about this its to not get hyped and not assume that the greatest skier ever who has been designing skis for years can deliver me a ski until there is a ski in front of me. So are they taking it up another level, or are they deleveling? They took it to a new level here. Wow that gets more informational every time I watch it. Andy mapple explains every part of the ski, how it works and why its good as well as the manufactuging process. Although those HO vids are better presented this Elite video is by far the most informative. According to Chris Parrish its a different level; Adam Cord a whole nother level and Andy Mapple a whole new road. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_UuUISRpDU Im not sure what is happening or what happened at AM skis, all I know is that its been nearly a year and I still dont have a ski and few people do. They never really opened up. It seemed that they were more interested in levels, and roads and being recognized for that, instead of selling skis built from all their experience. Look, I was sold on the Elite since the first time I rode it and I was sold on this knowing the same people were behind it and they could test the ski nearby leading to a much faster product developement cycle. They never lost me as a consumer because I love their previous ski so much, they just failed to get my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 It is interesting that the pvc core flexes/recovers differently than the polyurethane core, so having no core suggests that core type isn't a major factor on performance? That doesn't make sense to me, but I am no mechanical/structural engineer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @AB - I don't think you can make that conclusion. PVC vs. PU is a matter of having a ski with dimensionally identical cores, with laminated fiber product and resin wrapping it. In the hollow skis, there is still something inside. In the case of AM I think what they were doing is assembling a ski rather like a boat is made. Your boat has an outer hull, inner webbing "stringers" and then a top deck. I think the AM ski is an outer lay up forming the bottom "hull", a "stringer" system instead of a core, this stringer provides the mechanical/structural element, and the design of the "stringer" gives you most of the mechanical properties of the ski, and then a top deck. A foam core you have the same system, but the "stringer" is the core, and you cannot modify the performance of a solid foam core that is machined in the same way that you could a matrix of carbon. That is atleast how I think he is building the ski, until someone mails me a hollow AM to cut in half on my bandsaw.... Also I think if you take a chunk out of any modern ski, you probably don't want to patch it up with some bondo and take it back on the lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have patched many skis from handle pops with MarineTex, that suffered chunks out of the side wall where it meets the top plate, and they have held up for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 A stringer system would be more rigid than a foam core of any type, wouldn't it? Take the Senate vs Strada, poly vs PVC. One costs quite a bit more and is supposed to provide more shape recovery after flexing. I wonder what the key attributes are of the stringer system? I'm not saying one is worse than the other, just saying I don't know, and would like to know. But, marketing sometimes causes confusion or contradictions. The issue with torsional flex has been 180 degrees with at least one manufacturer, more is better and now less is better. It boils down to try it and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Johnson Posted October 14, 2012 Author Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 I believe stringer is a little misleading...The two halves went together, with a small brace or bracket that went from side to side, in approximately the middle of the ski...Sort of like a rib in a wing...This also helped to hold the two halves together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 You guys eat any rumor up and take it to the extreme. It will all come to light soon enough trust me. Go ski or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 That's probably true @Ed Johnson I am not sure of the inside's structure, just figure there needs to be something to maintain the structure of the top deck and running surface in alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @Bracemaker I was referring to the whole AM and radar thing. I have seen one cut open the way the rib system was designed I remember seeing it was fully supported. If you have a 66 and want to get rid of it let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 RTM I,m not so sure, there were some good ski,s produced before RTM, ski,s that broke records, D3 still produce a good quality product, with good consistency, surely the consistency has to come down to, personnel, facilities, and good procedures, in any industry if I pay low money to personnel, in a low tech enviroment, and expect them to bang out a certain number of skis a week, the chances of producing a consistent, quality product are going to be low, other manufacturers are producing good ski,s, for me the RTM ski,s, always feel different, under foot, they are really hard on my feet, I prefer the non RTM ski, for some reason they do not hurt my feet. Please Note: Only My Opinion, No Offence To Any Ski Manafacturer, Intended. I Understand People Have To Make Profit To Exist And Continue R&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Steveie Boy the only RTM skis ever produced in waterskiing were the Fisher/Razor and Elite/Quatro. Everything else is compression molded. Warp/AM 33 were vacuum bagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @Brent I will tell you that is a very bad idea. I have had 3 Elites and not a single problem with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 To be fair RTM just means you assembled the dry parts in an expensive mold and pressed resin into the mold. Does it make a consistent product? Surely. Is it a cheap method? Nope. Will you want to retool every year for ski updates or make one ski for years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted October 14, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted October 14, 2012 @johncox - Andy will stand behind every ski he sells, contact him and he'll take care of you if there's an issue with that ski, or he may want you to trade it back for the new and improved version he's selling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 14, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2012 @JohnCox just call Andy. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Delted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks @Brent. I did not quite understand that. I apologize for upsetting folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dirt Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have to say that I cannot stand the censorship. We used to be able to post whatever opinion we wanted on this site as long as we didn't name call or attack other people personally. I think it is terrible what is happening. Example You post something that someone else does not like or agree with. They email, call or text Horton. If it is a sponsor. You get nasty email from Horton. Post deleted. End result is people don't want to share their opinions here. Sometimes you will be wrong. Others may change your opinion after you read theirs. It is a discussion. You should not have to apologize for your opinion. If they enlighten you and you change your opinion, that is great. CENSORSHIP IS BAD Just my opinion. Don't worry I won't get angry or upset if you don't agree with me. Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @Dirt I agree...our opinions as consumers help nurture and shape industry, shared opinions open people's minds to others views or change ones own views, all aspects of society have grown from this, we would still be in the dark ages if thoughts and opinions were stifled...@JohnCox you have no reason to apologize in my opinion, a legit concern, spending good money on a product you may not get warranty if the need arises, in reality from a business perspective, no one should have to call Andy and find out if warranty will be honored, as a businessman he needs to step up and reassure potential consumers and those that have supported him about the product and the future of his company, open communication goes a lot farther than silence, one definitive paragraph of honesty on their website would be all it would take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 14, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2012 I did not censor or delete any thing. Waiting for apology. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 ...this post perhaps, but I think he is speaking in generalities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 14, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2012 I censor very little. If this is still too much a suggest SkiFly. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 I would never complain or ask for a post to be deleted. If you post stuff and don't like others opinions about it, then you know what they say about the kitchen... Even when people are irritating, like guys who have been banned, they add something or another perspective to discussions that I might not normally consider. The personal attacks are somewhat fruitless and gutless, just arrange to meet a guy in a parking lot and figure it out...and when they are relentless in personal attacks, then that is when I feel the moderator should step in, which Horton has. Not sure about the deleted posts. I don't remember what they were. In the grand scheme of things, probably dosn't matter so much anyway. It won't help me lose 50 pounds, which is my biggest challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Nah ! No "Ski Fly" for me, I like "Ball Of Spray" good bunch of Guy,s & Gals, with lots of knowledge to share, and willing to do so, can't get better than that. Horton does a great job, the amount of hours he must put in, must be on a least 1 dollar an hour, ask yourself, would you work for that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 nobody did anything wrong or not ethical at am skis i'm sure but i can see how a early customer would be unhappy if a different company took over construction after he bought one of the first ones off the line. it maybe hard to sell later on or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 @mwetskier if anyone has a 66 they will sell I will gladly make an offer on it today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Yes, getting warranty work on a defunct ski might be quite a bit different than a quality defunct boat company. Take Toyota inboard, they stashed away a bunch of parts, including entire engines when they stopped production. I know, my old company handled the Dealer fulfillment and stored the parts. I would think that AM would still fix problems to maintain a good reputation if they were still trying to sell product though. If they are completely out of the market, that may be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 14, 2012 Baller_ Share Posted October 14, 2012 Not sure why the Down side talk of production being moved to another manufacture. I read somewhere on here that several ski manufactures produce their ski in the same factory side by side . Can't remember which ones but HO and Connelly comes to mind. I would have no prob owning an early run AM ski. Most likely the man himself will lay hands on what ever needs to be fixed with them. 2013 runs in the RadaR factory may get sent back there for repairs/replace. Also a good thing i would think considering rave reviews on their costomer service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JohnCox Posted October 14, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2012 Sorry guys. I deleted my own posts. Should have stated that. Andy is an honorable guy and will stand behind it I am sure. I should have just kept my thoughts to myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Steven_Haines Posted October 15, 2012 Baller Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've owned a couple of early run Mapple skis and also the production version of the same ski. I liked both skis, but liked the original better! John, you have a unique ski! I don't know Andy but it seems to me that he'd stand behind his product/labor of love. If you want to sell it, I'll out bid Matt! Sorry Matt! (Just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck_Dickey Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 BOS is the best and John will make sure it stays that way. His site, his rules, stay or go away your choice. Keep it up John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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