Notice Of 2013 Program Changes - USAWS Drivers Rules

[east tx skier]

@MS re: Ambulance Chasers, I know a lot of lawyers (goes with the territory of going to law school). Of the ones you might qualify as ambulance chasers, a few are pretty nice people. Of course, they aren't the O'Quinn (handing out business cards in the swamp after the ValueJet crash) variety who literally chase ambulances. A very close friend of mind did some personal injury and represented a person who was killed in an explosion in the BP plant south of Houston. Suffice it to say that I believe that dead guy's family deserved some representation. But, then again, my friend, now a professional brewer and brewery owner (good recovery), did not chase them down. They (family friends) called him. I have never done personal injury and am, currently, a judicial appellate lawyer with the goal of making things fair for everyone that comes before our court.

 

I love lawyer jokes and despise the stereotypical ambulance chaser as much as anyone. But in my profession, it can be a fine line. I'm not sure exactly what everyone else on this forum does for a living. But I'm sure it's above reproach. That said, I reasonably certain I have been screwed over, in separate instances, by someone in every profession there is.

[XR6Hurricane]

@OB...gating and posting unfortunately no longer works. I live in a very well known lakeside town that was famous for its privately owned beaches where you could come and pay to picnic, swim, play in the sand, etc. It was the life of the town until the mid '80s. The owner of one of these beaches had a locked chain link fence around the property with a sign that said "no trespassing". A Puerto Rican lady, heavily intoxicated, climbed over the fence in the middle of the night, trespassed across the property, and waded out to a raft that was anchored in knee deep water with a sign on it that said "no diving". She dove off head first and broke her neck. The lawsuit brought about a huge judgment. The beach's insurance paid out, but then their premiums skyrocketed so they closed their doors. The neighboring beaches met the same fate as their insurance went through the roof. Anyhow, the basis for awarding the judgment was that the no trespassing and no diving signs were not in Spanish. So, unless you post signs in every language in the world including all 150 some versions of Swahili, you're on the hook. Even then someone who is illiterate will still win. It's a bunch of B.S., only in America. Like the lady who won the suit against Winnebago because she put it on cruise control and got up and went in back to make a sandwich and piled up.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight over the background checks for drivers, but have to say that it's sad to see the way things are going from an insurance standpoint in all of our beloved hobbies. It's equally disheartening to see things become so organized that they are no longer fun...Saturday morning on the river there are no rules...

[east tx skier]

@ZR6Hurricane, what state was that in?

[XR6Hurricane]

@east tx skier - Illinois

[east tx skier]

Interesting. Not sure how that would play out here. Again, as mentioned above, this is all state-to-state laws in play. But a cautionary tale to be sure. Particularly worrisome to us since we have courses on public lakes, which are open to injury incurred, well, by anyone.

 

/shiver

[XR6Hurricane]

LOL @OB.

[6balls]

If general liability is anything like medical liability in IL, I'm not surprised. Not sure how/why anyone practices medicine there.

[jdarwin]

@XR6Hurricane - as easttx stated, tort laws vary from state to state. Your example wouldn't make it to small claims court in Louisiana. We have sensible statutes that protect landowners against legal action from those who do not have implicit permission to access your property (trespassers).

[The_MS]

@east tex I dont think I would put your story into that category.

[XR6Hurricane]

@jdarwin - that's interesting about LA. I lived in Mandeville for about a year and it's a shame that while they're at it they don't get some sensible statutes in place to solve the car insurance situation there that's caused by the sue crazies. I'm glad at least some states are protecting land owners...my only reason for sharing that story was to give people a heads up. Anyone who owns private lake property should be sure to look into what applies in their state.

[east tx skier]

@MS, my story doesn't resemble any of that. I was a litigator in Houston for about a year and a half. I hated it. I got a job as a staff attorney at an intermediate appellate court and have been loving my job for the past eleven years and many years to come. So, yeah, I'm not in that category.

[gregy]

@OB was the incident at your site due to boat drive error? If so what was the drivers experience and would a driver rating and background check kept the incident from happening?

[Waternut]

I'm not a competitor or a volunteer for competitions so I consider myself to be looking from the sidelines on this. I don't see the actual cost of $12.50 being the problem. It's totally the principle. You either get paid to work or you volunteer. You don't pay to volunteer.

 

If a friend wants me to help him/her out with boat work, dock work, yard work, or moving, I'm happy to help friends in need. I don't really think of it as work, I think of it as a social get together with friends. Now if the same friend wants me to help out and also wants me to go out of my way to help and then pay them $10-$15 on top of giving up my Saturday or Sunday....well then I've got a very large bag a sand they can pound...

[jdarwin]

It's not the $12.50. The $12.50 has simply opened up the entire organization to scrutiny. Now, members are beginning to better analyze the value they receive from USAWS. I knew this would happen. As long as membership renewals just flowed along like they always had, no one would raise any flags. But, throw in a new cost/requirement and members take a step back and take a closer look. And, now that members have opened the package, they don't like what they see.

[ToddL]

Just curious... Has USAWS specified a statute of limitations on DWI/DUI MVR history? For example, if a person was stupid in college but is now in his or her 50's, would this person be ineligible?

 

What other activity would cause someone to "fail" and thus lose or prevent a USAWS driver rating? Is that published somewhere?

 

As stated earlier, lack of MVR history is not assurance of safe future driving. However, I can see how removing all drivers with risky history would reduce risk to USAWS. That's really what is at play.

[Jody_Seal]

What is here at play is that USAWS have no knowledge of how to run a real business! When Global came back and told them that the one glove fits all and that they were going to have to comply they failed to take the information to the sport divisions and membership for approval and recommendations..... Such as does the glove really fit all? Are their alternatives for each sport division? membership have any ideas? And why was Global the only choice? their are other insurance company's in the world that would love to take our money!

 

[TylerR]

@jody_seal as a former insurance agent in college who sold p&c I don't understand where the liability is in such a large membership pool as 3 event skiing. I insured during my time several motocross tracks where they would average 5 or 6 major $50000 + injury events a year and we still just required a valid drivers license for the pertecipants.

[wski1831]

@jdarwin is right it is the principle. USAWS has a lot of rules, requirements, and fees to help or put on a tournament. Personally I don't care if the driver has had a DUI, i know there is enough scrutiny at a tournament that there will not be drunk driving at a tournament.

[gregy]

@toddL I was wonder the same thing. Is it subjective or is there a set of rules.

 

I talked my friend that coaches kids bowling. He has a criminal back ground check every two years. It cost him $23. He does this in conjuction with a local organization that is governed by USBC which is a national organization. He pays it out of his own pocket, after he passes the local association pays him back.

 

So maybe a temporary solution is for local clubs to help out the volunteers.

 

@wski1831 I'm with you, can't see someone allowed to drive in a tournament while intoxicated. But I don't even know if that's the only thing there looking at. Probably in the rule books somewhere.

[ForrestGump]

@gregy @ToddL It's a 3 year ban. It's any major infraction. DUI, Leaving the scene of an accident, Open container violation, etc.

[Waternut]

I still don't understand the background check though. Make the driver sign something affirming that he/she hasn't had a DUI or major driving infraction in the last ? years. If they lie and hurt someone I don't understand how USAWS could be responsible. Its not like waiving your rights, you are making a statement just like you do for a job or on your taxes.

[Roger]

Got to watch those internet reported stories though, the Winnebago story is fake:truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/onlyinamerica.htm

[Horton]

@ShaneH I know I would NEVER drink a beer while pulling the last ride or two of the day. Shit maybe I should not be honest about this. What I mean to say is YOU would never ...

[Dusty]

The Driver Records provided will go back 3 years- a common car insurance standard nationwide. No DUI's, vehicle assaults, or OPEN CONTAINER tickets allowed...

My ratings will expire at the end of 2013 unless something changes- or sooner if I choose not to renew membership. One less Senior slalom driver, and judge, is not going to affect the course of the organization. I get that.

My issues are not and have not been the $12.50. It is the way this change was communicated and the 'done deal' blind side. AWSA has a laudable record of tournament safety. Some of the other disciplines apparently do not. We fund the lion's share of operations for USAWS. Instead of creating a tiered system or 'policing' the disciplines in need of it- they sold out everyone. The Trained Driver requirements apparently ARE going to be the end of some long-standing clubs around the country. All for some 'supplemental' insurance benefit? What I see is a common tactic wherein giving away something you don't have or don't value is pretty easy, and easily justified. I still tend to suspect additional motives behind the decisions made- either parochial or financial...

 

[The_MS]

This is an Ambulance Chaser.

http://news.yahoo.com/claim-seeks-100-million-child-survivor-connecticut-school-003646074.html

 

"As a consequence, the ... child has sustained emotional and psychological trauma and injury, the nature and extent of which are yet to be determined," the claim said.

Pinsky's claim said that the state Board of Education, Department of Education and Education Commissioner had failed to take appropriate steps to protect children from "foreseeable harm."

 

It said they had failed to provide a "safe school setting" or design "an effective student safety emergency response plan and protocol.

 

 

Maybe the parents ought to check on these Safe School Settings before you send your kid there.

[Drago]

Way inappropriate for a water ski site discussing a $12 background check

[ForrestGump]

Why is it inappropriate?

 

[skibug]

It is not inappropriate. I don't believe it is the dollar amount that everyone is upset about, rather the principle behind it.

[ForrestGump]

Drago, this directly effects EVERYONE on this site in the US. Not only from a tournament perspective, but also a club perspective. Clubs will shut down because of it and there is going to be a loss of quality drivers for reasons that baffle even people who are close to the situation. That makes it very appropriate to discuss.

[Horton]

@ms please connect the dots. What does the shooting survivors lawsuit have to do with this?

[Horton]

@ShaneH tell us again why clubs really need the USAWS insurance. Why not just get other insurance?

[ForrestGump]

Honestly, they don't in a lot of cases. But I've seen a lot of lake leases and/or use agreements, in their current form, that require AWSA/USAWS insurance. Leases and use agreements would have to be revised or renegotiated.

[Drago]

The school shootings of 20+ 6 year olds has any f-ing resemblance to us poor unfortunate tournament waterskiers having to pay an extra 12 bucks so we can complain about rollers on our million dollar lakes? Really guys?

[ForrestGump]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. It's not about the money.

[Drago]

Did you read ms post??

[RichardDoane]

@drago - look back to my post about waivers/ambulance chasing attorneys from December 20, I think that's where @ms 's comment came from

[bherder]

Stupid question, but does the statement in bold below apply to everyday practice? Say a noon ski set during lunch? Or does it just apply to practice right before the tournament (Friday afternoon).

 

SANCTIONING CHANGES: Effective 1/1/2013, all boat drivers who tow skiers in USA Water Ski-sanctioned events must be current USA Water Ski Trained Boat Drivers or sport discipline-rated drivers. This includes USA Water Ski-sanctioned practices and exhibitions sanctioned through the club's "Members-Only" section of USA Water Ski's Web site and those sanctioned in conjunction with a tournament.

[MattP]

@bherder most clubs sanction everyday of the season as practice so that they are always covered with an extra layer of insurance. I know my club does this.

[ForrestGump]

I don't know that I'd say most clubs. The two places I ski don't sanction any practices.

[The_MS]

My post was about how our costs for everything go up when a scumbag lawyer comes up with bogus lawsuits. Our insurance and costs go up due to this crap.

 

Those quotes were all out of the article.

[bherder]

@MattP Thanks. I'm not sure if my club does that. I will find out.

[clemsondave]

You can do a blanket sanction for practices. I sanction March - November; 7am - 9pm all in one sanction.