If the Ballers were to design a boat

[Horton]

I was talking to a well known water ski industry person today and he/she asked the question:

 

If the Ballers were to design a boat, what would it be like? What items are important and what items could be scaled back to keep the price down.

 

[Horton]

Sounds more expensive

[RichardDoane]

the feel and design of the steering wheel should always have input from a driver's perspective

[ktm300]

For so many skiers the only number that really matters is the price of the boat versus resale number. It has never cost me much to own boats. Buy them right and resell to a retail type buyer. For skiing purposes, they could cut out a lot of things but, some of those things would also reduce the resale number. So if it is going to cost you 1k or so to own a ski boat for a few years, why not own one that is tricked out with good stuff.

[The_MS]

Start building the 196 again. I dont need the link system. Key start, heater, Bimini and ZO is all I would need.

[Razorskier1]

Simplify. Agree with @MS, don't need the happy shit gauge panel and push button start. I would like a ski locker that actually fit a 68 inch long slalom ski.

[MattP]

1 speaker with a AUX jack.

[ntx]

Move the driver to the center of the boat.

[Kelvin]

@MattP That's exactly what I did. I picked up a base model 200 and added a marine amplifier and 2 speakers and an auxiliary plug for my iPhone. Works great.

 

Also, on keeping the cost down - when I toured the Nautique factory, they said it took about 13 hours for the seamstress to do all of the sewing for the motorbox cover. Yes, I like the vinyl covered motor boxes better than the bare fiberglass of yesteryear's barebones boats, but 13 hours of sewing is ridiculous.

[MattP]

@NtxAnd have everyone have to "relearn" to drive the course...

[jdarwin]

Make a lot of the "options" modular so the promo guy can buy a basic tractor but when it comes time to sell, he can add the items his buyer would like (padded motor box, coaming pads, bow cushion options, etc.). This would keep the price down for the promo guy while allowing him to protect the resale against more optioned boats.

[danspence]

I would like to see a better heater for those cold mornings in England, and also the whole of winter.

[tfriess]

Love what @ms said. I love my 196 but the thing that it is lacking is storage. IMO the 200 has A lot of storage space. That's what I would like to see because we bring a lot of gear and a lot of people when we go out and it becomes very cramped

[Wish]

Wakes of a 196

Tracking of a Gekko GTR

Interior room of an Infinity

Easy step over of an Infinity

Platform of a Carbon Pro

Front bow section of a Bu Sportster with hard tonneau cover

Seat hights of a 196

Usable side gunnel trunks similar to 200.

Current Bu windshield

Ipad dash display (removable). Apps for cruise control, and engine stats. done wireless

Rotating pylon like MC

Ultra-Ever Dry on all surfaces above the waterline

[Ham_Wallace]

Malibu TXI with 6.0 litre, Hard cover for the front playpen, Move the fuel tank to front ski locker, By moving the tank, you would get a huge ski locker in the rear that would hold at least 5 skis and gear up to 70". Cup holders, (lots of cup holders for brewskis after the tows, keys, cell phones and more.) at least 12 cup holders.

[Ham_Wallace]

P.S.- Some Ballers ski more than 1 event!

[addkerr]

@danspence yep one that blows hot air at the skier behind haha

[BraceMaker]

Swappable fuel cans like old outboards instead of mounted tanks - I cannot be the only person who hauls a bunch of 5 gallon cans to the gas station, then has to pour them into the boat. I would much rather have a hatch where you'd be able to lift the cover and plug in a new can of gas - Also for clubs everyone buys their own can and keeps it full.

 

Rigid bimini top. Light weight rigid material instead of fabric.

 

No glued carpets textured floor. Optional snap in carpet kits.

 

Fiberglass hatch lid, but with a removable cushioned top.

 

Swivel pylon w/ delrin insert.

 

Easy access hatch for steering cable/stuffing box maintainance.

 

No floor panel that is "screwed" down.

[The_MS]

The 196 has lots of storage but it lacks easy access to the under bow storage. If they had an opening from the front seat to the bow storage it would be great. Having to lift up the front seat to access it now is a bummer.

@Bracemaker You need to get one of those easy siphon hoses for the gas.

[BraceMaker]

I've tried it all with transfering gas to the boat. To use the siphon style I need to elevate my gas can on the dock higher than is readily done. And the fuel plate is opposite the dock, which makes that harder.

 

I make much less mess with a short flexible rubber hose on a barbed fitting instead of those segmented nonsense ones the cans come with.

 

But its still not great - if we're talking a private lake slalom tug I see no reason the boat needs to have 30 gallons of fuel in it at a time. And would much rather swap cans (so long as there is no oil mixing to do.)

[skiray]

Yes, this could bring out the panda....

 

I should admit I have a TXI with several options. Only because the base boat cost much more than I cared to spend for a base boat. If your going to be in a boat for that kind of money you should have something to show for it.

 

Option 1:

1. Needs capability to add options after initial sale at or near original option price. Ship me the additional interior/stuff, I will install. I agree with @jdarwin

2. Limited electronics. ZO, fuel, temp, pressure, hrs. 

3. No dash for increased visibility. No need do to reduced electronics. Key start.

4. Open bow with step over dash but with a solid deck.  Basically, I want to "snap in" cushions if needed. Otherwise, elevated textured floor. Basically, it's my LXI with the center cushion in, only with a solid fiberglass floor no storage. This would allow for ski storage under the bow(under the seats), access behind observer seat like closed bow. not sure if that makes sense...

5. Nice driver's seat and observer seat. One color. 

6. Maximize ski locker/trunk.

6. Other than above, no other vinyl require. 

7. Solid motor

8. Minimal fuel tank. Max 15 gallons.

9. Solid color boat. Mine would be white and wrapped upon delivery. 

10. Malibu type pylon

11. Bimini top

12. Durable but light platform.  There's got to be a better material than fiberglass.

13. No carpet. Just give me something that has texture.

14. $35k. One catch, limited production run for manufacture. This boat is in production Nov/Dec only.

 

Option 2:

1. Needs capability to add options after initial sale at or near original option price. 

2. Traditional dash. Key start.

3. Carbon composite hull.

4. Closed bow, size around a 196, 190 or sportster.

5. Nice driver's seat, basic observer'seat.

6. Maximize ski locker/trunk, carbon lid.

6. Other than above, no other vinyl require. 

7. Turbo 6 reduce weight.

8. Minimal fuel tank. Max 15 gallons.

9. Malibu type pylon

10. Bimini top

11. Carbon motor cover and platform. 

12. Light weight carpet.

 

[gregy]

How much of the boat weight is really the engine. A cast iron gm 5.7 is around 500lbs. You might save a few hundred lbs by going to a v6. I like simplicity and a gm v8 is simply easy to get parts for. There are aluminum head and block option for gm v8 that could save weight as well. Storage and keep it simple. Open bow cause its a family boat also.

 

I like the step over to the bow on my response LX cause of the extra storage it allows behind the observer seat.

 

I like the idea of easy add-on options.

 

Trunk storage is nice.

 

I like the idea of the utilitarian style of interior like the Carbon Pro.

 

Smoother ride cause my old back doesn't like harsh wake crossings.

+1 on lots of cup holders. Good solid quality so it last a long time.

[BraceMaker]

If you really wanted a smooth ride, they could fairly easily add an air cushioned seat, and the steering and throttle could be linked onto it so they all rode with you.

[h2oski]

Height adjustment on the drivers seat.

[Steven_Haines]

It sounds like (to me) people are asking for an older boat with current technology with better storage. You pretty much have that in the 196! Or do some do some refining on an older Response hull.

[Brady]

I would go back to the 1992 Prostar 190 hull. IMO, the best wake on the water. Put the ZO and a heater with modern electronics with that hull. That would be nirvanna.

 

If that is not possible, give me a boat with Andy Mapple as an upgrade and a built-in keg I could use as ballast to soothe my ego when I fall short of my goal for the day.

[BraceMaker]

@skibrain - the Infinity had the V drive and the engine in a different spot.

 

Did this for you:

 

http://features.boats.com/boat-content/files/2001/12/img6084.jpg

[BraceMaker]

http://waterskimag.com/files/2009/09/wpid-7-1-7-14912-seq9985bg.jpg

 

Obviously the jump seat is kind of neat, its over the transmission, prop shaft is different. Pylon position is somewhat fixed to keep tracking, and also I believe height is important for approval.

[Dacon62]

Lots of good ideas here.

@wish pretty much nailed it.

Take the ideas and create a poll to narrow it down to the core items.

 

[gregy]

@bracemaker I like the suspension seat idea.

 

Infinity had some great innovations and design. I set in one before but never skied behind them. If a manufacture took some of there ideas with a more current hull design it would be a really nice boat.

[boarditup]

Flat-6 or flat 4 motor completely under the floorboards - no motor box. Multiple speed transmission for quick starts. Motor turns in the lower part of torque curve at 34-mph.

[6balls]

I like today's boats though they have too many frills. I like yesterday's 196. What I don't like is the cost. Any frills adding to cost without meaningfully adding to experience should be dumped.

[BraceMaker]

@skibrain.

 

Lots of V-Drives have removable pylons. Many of the "ills" of the inboard could be addressed easily by having the pylon draw down tight into a deck plate, and have another deck plate behind the engine box.

 

Compromises some tracking, but would be fully usable for open water, or when you wanted to tug knee boarders and the like, with out resorting to the full back of the boat tow eye method.

[Horton]

I love that all mftrs will read this and no one will ever guess who asked me to start this thread.

[MattP]

That's what you think

[Jody_Seal]

Their is a magic formula for a great boat. a boat will not track well pulling a slalom skier if it is to light. A boat will not perform well if it is under powered. a lot depends on shaft angle and rudder design. Back ground knowledge and light on what you are trying to build is crucial. Building a pure slalom boat or a boat that will pull the 6 year old at long line with out launching them all the way up to a world class trick,jump overall boat. Ideology with in the target market is another guiding influence, so sad but the sport's idealism has changed drastically. As a three event enthusiast I doubt we will ever see many pure three event boats on the market anytime soon. the towboat market is resale driven. what seems funny to me is all these open bow boats on private ski lakes that have never had someone in the bow!!!

[BlueSki]

Deck ornaments. They should come standard. Any of the examples Horton posted here would be fine: http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/7395/it-cant-all-be-about-waterskiing-this-post-is-pg-13-ish

 

[BraceMaker]

@jody_seal - where as on public water I cannot stand the OB as it gets so wet!

[6balls]

If the hull is the same, who cares if open vs. closed bow? Easier to wipe the boat down from inside teh boat when it's open bow an gives a little people flexibility in the rare occasion it's needed.

I get that it serves virtually no purpose on a tourney lake, but someday you might want to sell it to a population that includes non-tourney lake people who want the open bow.

[Dacon62]

I would guess that the open bow on a private lake is all about resale after the year is over.

[Chef23]

I like the open bow because we ski on public water and when the kids have friends over I frequently use the open bow. It also makes it much easier to cover my boat at the dock when I can do it from inside the boat. Personally I don't need a lot of fancy stuff. I am fine with old style gauges, ZO, air/water temp, depth. I don't have a radio but I wouldn't mind one. I waffle on the heat issue. I don't have it but don't mind it when we are in @rayn's boat which has it.

 

I like the simplicity of the current engine options. They are bulletproof and easy to maintain. I would like better efficiency though particularly with gas pushing $4 per gallon.

 

I can do without carpet and am intrigued by the rubber flooring in the Centurion. My carpet has started to look like crap and it is hard to clean down by the dock.

 

I am not a fan of the teak platform because if you leave the boat in the water it always looks bad. I haven't used a glass platform though so I am not sure how they compare and I worry that they would be more fragile than teak. If teak gets dinged up it doesn't look too bad I don't expect that would be the case with a glass platform.

 

I don't want a bigger boat something with a 91" beam is as big as I want to go. For me a Response LX sized boat with a walk through and a jump seat would be a killer boat. The MC 197 with improved slalom wakes but the same trick wakes would be a perfect size for me also.

[bogboy]

21' hobie inspired displacement cat, 3.0 gm proven direct drive, hot water shower, swim step, closed bow, 3 person spotter seat, zero off, no wake, low operating cost. Btw, sun valley is awesome snow skiing now.

[Broussard]

Closed Bow

Storage

Carpet

3 event

padded engine box

racks under observer's seat for counter weight (dumbbells)

Driver remote for stereo with good

cupholders and a spot for the driver to put their phone!

Drop in ice chest by observer's seat

Nice wake for tricks

flat wake for slalom

power for jump

TEAK.

[thager]

Just bring back the 02 196 and equip it with ZO.

[6balls]

Wonder how low the price point could be driven on a revival of a 196 given r/d costs already recovered so really just cost of production vs. sale price ie) could it undercut the carbon pro closed bow with higher quality construction? Further question as to how much it would dig into big brother 200 sales. Maybe 200 is open bow only with 196 baby brother closed bow? Could CC grab the closed bow, private lake crowd by continuing the 196?

As an aside, I'm a doc who is now in MBA school (2 classes from done) and running a massive business simulation where there are huge advantages to running multiple products within the same segment. Even if there is some cannibalization of sales from one line, if two lines take up more segment sales combined than one by itself, it can pay off and make it very difficult for competitors. Hmm.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Good one @6balls. Probably the most realistically doable idea I've seen suggested on this thread.

[E_T]

Yall talk about loosing weight and want to drop to a V-6? Where i come from V-6 is well unexceptionable in anything why not go for an aluminum block LS3? more HP better fuel economy than a 6.0 with DOD and save fuel when at idle. Me i would go for a LSA and just sawp it boat to boat as i got a new one

[BraceMaker]

Does anyone else remember the simpson's episode where homer design's an "everyman's car"

[BraceMaker]

@6balls - One problem is that there is a fierce regional loyalty to certain brands, sort of like with Trucks, you have a local established dealer which gives you good service, and the resale is high geographically for what you own, so you stick to it, even if another company has an arguably better product.

[6balls]

@bracemaker this is true. So as an exec at one of these firms you can accept that and not dare compete in that market, or try to do something about it. Clearly a business risk...on one hand happy to have what you've got and concede other markets to competitors who may be selling inferior product...on another hand saying "we have the best products at the best price points, and therefore we are going into our competitors markets".

I don't mean to minimize any of this...it's a big deal when it's your own firms $$.