Safer Style of Buoy

[gregy]

Ok, so I read that Ward, Skidawg, got hurt from hitting a buoy. Its time we address this, there should be a way to make a buoy that is safe so that this type of injury is eliminated. @marcusbrown had some suggestion in a thread a few weeks ago about a flag or something. Bubble buoy, these seem high maintenance anyone using them. I think it was MB that suggested a foam tube rapped or dipped in rubber. I'm thinking sleeve that slides over a foam tube that a foot or so long. Low flotation that want lift you.

 

Suggestions? Has there been any real work on this.

 

I'm in this sport for health, fitness, and fun. If I'm hurt none of this is happening. I realize that I can get hurt, but if I'm not working the bills aren't getting paid, I need to be doing what I can to minimize the chances. I get some sick / disability but its not enough to cover my bills. At my work I do all types things to eliminate chances of injury. Other sports are evolving, football has changed the way tackles are made.

[Waternut]

Party balloons...done deal. If one breaks, the skier ran over it and the buoy doesn't count. Solves the gate issue too. Kinda high maintenance though. haha

[ral]

@gregy, bubble buoys are not high maintenance.

[klindy]

I'm a believer in the Wally Skier buoys too. And I'm sure they're low (no) maintenance.

[Brady]

For those of us who are still at the stage of wishing we had this type of accident, how exactly do you get wiped out by a buoy? Coming around the inside or even on the top, wouldn't you go through the buoy? And if you clipped it on the outside under the ball, wouldn't your ski simply release? I know I am wrong, but I am simply trying to understand more and more and more...

[klindy]

@Brady lets put it this way...you wouldn't want to hit a log floating just at the surface. It's similar to a typical buoy in that it will stand its ground pretty well while the ski either tries to stop or literally gets lifted out of the water.

 

If JT was running over a typical buoy in the pic above the next frame would show the ski in the same general place and his body would be approaching a superman pose. The problem is getting out if the bindings (or the bindings off the ski). Hitting it near the tip of the ski makes the tip rise up pretty quick. Ankles aren't made to flex that way.

[gregy]

@ob do you run bubble buoys at your site? If so how well do they hold up when left out?

 

But what if we thought outside the box here? MB was suggesting something like a flag, similar to snow skiing.

[gator1]

Safer buoy only fixes part of the problem. Skipping the tail or stuffing the tip or hitting the buoy all result in same problem. @klindy is right. Tip coming up in your face means ankles getting over flexed. Gator mod saved me again today. So far 42 sets on it. No pre-releases. 5 releases. One buoy strike. 1 tail skip (today)1 tip stuff. 2 lean locks. It's been to 4 @38 on my feet and my buddy's. don't know it's there till you need it.

[crashman]

@brady I'm here to prove running over a buoy can put the hurt on even at beginner speeds. One of the scariest falls I've had was when I first started on the course and came in narrow on 3 ball at 28 mph.

[A_B]

Our course is subject to some white caps on strong west or east winds. I was told that this would cause havoc with Bubble Buoys. True or False?

[sunperch]

@kindly, I agree with you on the Wally Skier bouy. We now have a complete set on both of our courses. I have run over them occasionally and hardly feel them under my ski. They are almost maintenance free, the algae rubs off with your hand, or if you let them dry in the sun, flakes off. We have had one set in the water for a year and no fading. Well worth the $$.

[skibug]

@OB, you are not entirely correct about your statement on the bubble buoy being the only buoy you can ski through. I have not skied on a bubble buoy course; but, I can say without a doubt, with hard objective evidence, that you can run over a Wally Skier buoys and keep going. See post from last year.

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/82119

[skibug]

I will add that even though the bubble buoy and the Wally Skier buoys seem to be a very good answers from a safety perspective......they are NOT 100% foolproof....nothing ever will be. They are just measures to reduce the risk. Any interuption to your intended course or the ski's engagement with the water is potential for disaster.

[Ed_Johnson]

Right now the only choice should be, do I use Walley or Bubble Buoys ?

 

I have had Bubble Buoys since they came out years a go..Numerous skiers have hit them, run through them, and not even a fall..All we do is occasionally "Burp" them so they stay soft...I repaint them every 6 months so they are bright orange and shiny.

 

It's a lot more maintenance going to the ER, rehab, etc.

[skidawg]

I put Wally bouys in sat, F'd up both ankles Sunday, ran over 1 ball; bubble bouys would have saved my season and a $6000 deductible for surgery!

[Ed_Obermeier]

So @skidawg if I read your post correctly it was a wally buoy you ran over?

[MrJones]

Yes it was. We put them on Saturday.

 

BTW. This should be in another thread, but if you (or a family member) are on dual lock for a release mechanism, get the hell off of it before you destroy you ankle/achilles.

[teammalibu]

I have said it before and i will say it again! What MrJones said!!

[The_MS]

I think that it should be the whole point of this thread. No release after hitting nothing and going OTF will mess you up.

[waterskicorey]

Bubble buoy's work, we have had them in our lake for 3 years now and no one has been hurt hitting them and they are not much more work in maintaining them.

[Horton]

You guys know I do my best to never endorse any product but seriously . . . Strada boots.

[skidawg]

I use 1 strip of clear 250 on each side and 1 strip of 400 on plate, I have never had issues with hitting bouys, releasing, etc. I have always been pretty indestructible concerning slalom crashes, but I strongly recommend everyone putting on 6 Goode bouys for the turn balls $180 is very cheap compared to my situation!!! No other bouy is safe

 

No-I did not release

 

This could b u

[ForrestGump]

Damn, Dawg. You got monkey toes. You could probably grip a banana with those things. ;)

[MrJones]

Chipman. You are wrong.

 

In a straight OTF fall the pull comes from the front ankle. This is in the middle of the plate (where the most dual loc is) and does not effectively peal it off the back which is how it releases. This is not debateable. This is how it is.

 

Todd Kuydendall, John Tate, Jonathon Fox, Jay Leach, Mike Baldwin, Brian Mathis, Ward Mclain, and myself. Broken ankles or torn achilles in the past 4 years. Those are just the people I personally know (and I am probably forgetting some) that have been hurt using this release set up on double boots.

 

There is no perfectly safe set up, but this is the worst. Again. Get off of them.

[Than_Bogan]

We've recently installed bubble buoys on our course. Logic suggests they must be safer than regular buoys, but they are certainly not a panacea. So far I've only smashed into one once, and it didn't give at all -- most likely because my ski got outside it and then my binding drove into the side of the ball. It seems to me it's possible that this type of crash is even worse into a bubble buoy because in total the bubble buoy has a lot more mass.

 

I stopped dead and ejected out of my T-Factors. No serious harm done, but definitely a sore ankle.

 

Point being: As good as Bubble Buoys are, I think we'd be wrong to quash discussions of trying to find something even safer.

[gator1]

This is making me nuts. Anybody out there skiing on a fogman, dual loc, HO exo, Stealth, or any other "releasing" double boot binding who wants to try a gatormod, contact me.

[The_MS]

How do you properly set up dual lock for each skier and each situation? I am not sure I want to go through that trial and error.

[ral]

@gregy, I have them as well in my lake. Maintenance is needed usually only when skiers run over them laterally from the inside when trying to get an extra 1/4.

 

 

[Marco]

Here is the result of me hitting 2 ball at short line a few years back. I really wish Bubble Buoys were around then. They came out the following year.

[Wish]

Standard air filled= suck

Water filled= suck less

Walley= better

BB= best....so far

 

Let's hear some other options. Lots of engineers on here as well as crafty do it yourself guys (like gator1).... Oh and then there's @eleeski

[jipster43]

@MrJones you left Dave Goode off that list!

 

I broke my ankle on my first set of the season using my Stradas. It was totally my fault. My back boot was too tight, but I was too anxious to ski and figured I'd be taking it easy and it wouldn't matter. Nothing is more demoralizing than when your own brain betrays you.

 

I'm hoping to get the green light to ski this week (8 weeks later) and I'm going to be ordering some Bubble Buoys for our lake and to take with me to tournaments. At 46 I'm too old to give up two months of my ski season ever again.

 

Good luck with the recovery Ward! I'm sure it will be made easier knowing your injury wasn't the result of your stupidity.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

I believe it was @eleeski who had the original idea of projected, virtual buoys. Can't do much better than nothing there at all!

 

This is actually somewhat possible, and I could swear somebody claimed to have made some underwater lights and actually done something along these lines. Maybe I'll use the new search functionality to find a link.

[AggieSkier]

@skidawg Sorry to hear about the injury. Many people forget to file a ski accident claim against their boat insurance policy. Look at your Boater's policy and you will see an often overlooked line of Medical insurance of around $5,000 with no deductible. My Boat US policy paid 100% of the bills after @Lydiaski broke her foot hitting 5 ball. The coverage we have pays up to $25,000 for a family member or $5,000 for a non-family member. You should call your insurance company ASAP to advise them of the injury accident.

 

Jay

 

I put Wally buoys in sat, F'd up both ankles Sunday, ran over 1 ball; bubble buoys would have saved my season and a $6000 deductible for surgery!

[klindy]

My understanding is that blind skiers use basically a rope positioning system to "know" the skier made it out past a 'virtual' buoy. Therefore no buoys necessary. Guess that would eliminate a lot of judges too! Not sure what it does for making the event more enjoyable to watch however.

[skibug]

What if there were two lines projected down the course (much like the first down marker on the TV during NFL games; but you would be able to see it) and all you had to do was break that plane 3 times on each side of the couse. It would take some getting used to...but.....no buoy to contend with.

[Klundell]

My question is how many of you that run double power shells remove the spring assembly on the back boot? I think the majority of people remove the spring assembly because they don't like that much movement in the back foot but it also requires them to put on a ton more dual lock because of the increased leverage the rear boot puts on the plate. I've released 3 times this week from my double power shells all appropriate releases. And I know without a doubt dual lock saved by body in this crash when the rope actually wrapped around by ski.

[eleeski]

I have played with a few buoy designs that offer enhanced safety. The bubble buoy is as good as anything I made. But I still have some ideas to try.

 

The holographic buoy is beyond my capabilities - but it would be nice.

 

I did injure my ankle on a bubble buoy course. But I'm not sure the experimental triple fin didn't have more to do with it than the design of the buoys. Oops...

 

Eric

[The_MS]

@OB is correct. It is up to each skier to ID their own safety risk.

[Ed_Johnson]

Just this morning after my post, went skiing, and my ski partner ran right through the middle of 2 ball at 38 and kept on going....Asked me at the end of the Lake if it counted since he kept running the pass...Said he didn't expect the ski to turn in that fast..Without those Bubble Buoys there is a good chance we would have been headed to the ER, and not his only worry being, did the pass still count.

[klindy]

@Klundell nice video! Do you generally have a camera operator on the shore for practice video? The quality of the shot would really make this a great analytical tool. And you're right, the rope took that ski right off the plate. Looks like you can even see the puzzle piece flying towards the centerline.

 

Back on topic, I had a run-in with buoy #4 this last week. Regular buoy - nothing special. The ski/plate separated as expected (Powershells). What wasn't expected was the ski chasing me down and smacking me just above my upper lip. Fortunately little blood and only a slight bruise. Ankles and knees are just fine.

[Brady]

Okay, I am not a great skier, but i have been thinking about this issue for quite a while, and here are my thoughts:

 

It would be very easy to design a buoy system that would be guaranteed to not cause ANY injury due to hitting the ball. Imagine having the buoy set 18-24 inches below the surface of the water. Out of the top of the buoy, have a 2.5 foot rod made out of the same material giant slalom skiers use. At the top of the rod, you could mount a very small round buoy, maybe 2 or 3 inches in diameter. When the skier came around the ball, he would in essence slap the rod, similar to snow skiing and would never run into the rod directly, as it would move to one side or the other. It would be easy to judge and the rods would stay in place because of the tension the buoy has on them. If the rod didn't go straight vertical, you could put 3 buoys under the water and have the rod go up in between the three. You would need to have the rod break the surface at the outer edge of where the current balls are. bottom line, the skier would never be on anything other than water. I believe this would also be minimal on maintenance. If the skier came just inside the rod, the water displacement would most likely push the rod out of the way of receiving damage from the hull of the ski or of the fin. The key would be in creating enough buoyancy with the under-water buoy to keep the rod pointing straight up. I will insert a crude drawing trying to explain it in more detail. This idea may totally suck, but I am thinking outside of the box and if this helps make the sport safer, then good on all of us.

[Brady]

Sorry, it came out sideways.

 

[ronski]

We used to set up a pvc pipe/string course in lake powell and used red painted Styrofoam toilet bowl floats for balls that were like 4" in dia. If you hit them square nothing happened to you like if they were regulation turn balls.

[ral]

@Brady, after hitting a GS gate with an unprotected part of my body, I do not think I would like to hit that with my shin...

[Klundell]

@klindy ha ha ha yeah the film crew is just part of my entourage. No they were there filming a promo video for ski buddy's company and I got to be the test monkey. Just happened to catch the weird crash on film with a high speed camera.

[klindy]

Sweet!

[jimbrake]

@klundell - did that wreck your ski? I did the exact same thing two weeks ago. I felt the handle just nick the end of my big toe. The rope/handle ripped off the foot pad that sticks out of the front of my front binding, and crushed one sidewall of my A2. Fixed the ski and the pad. So lucky it didn't hit the top of my foot or toes. Really weird fall.

[DooSPX]

Klundell , Holy S**t man, That looked scary! I might have had to get a new suit after that. about 6 years ago, I hit the turn ball at -15 @ 34 and stuck it hard, and tore my knee up pretty good. I remember think it would be nice to have bouys that give under pressure like the BB.

[Klundell]

@jimbrake destroyed the rope of the handle but the ski was fine. I'm still skiing on it. My back took a little jerk before the dual lock released but other then that I was fine. It happened so fast I would have had no idea what happened without the high speed camera.

[Brady]

@ral It would be easy to cover it with some type of foam or similar product that would not hurt at all hitting it. You could also design the underwater buoy to make sure the rod came up at the edge of where the regular balls are--that way, you wouldn't have to change the set up of all the existing courses. You could also shorten the out-of-water part of the system to only stick up 6 to 8 inches.

 

@Klundell That was friggin awesome video! I was awestruck watching you come out of the first ball on the video