Fin adjustment again!

[colo_skier]

Skied with various people at different sites this last week. Everyone with lots of skiing knowledge and experience. I was having the usual off side turn radius issue. I got 2 conflicting solution suggestions. One was to increase tip of the fin and one was to decrease? Can anybody point me to a good discussion on this? Not a how to adjust thread but more of a what is the normal expected response of changing fin settings. Also opinions on when you should start using a wing? If you are not into shortline is it really just a crutch to help address a different problem? This has probably been addressed a hundred times over so a pointer to the best place to read up on this would be nice.

[Jordan]

ummm...what is happening? Of course video would help a lot

[colo_skier]

@Jordan, Understand, however its not what is going on that I am really wondering about. Its more the issue of what do most people do for their off side turn ski not coming around at the same radius. ie trying to tighten up the turn radius of the off side (LFF) so that the ski completes better. There was a lot of changes being put into place all around with my skiing for other reasons. I was just wondering about this one since I actually got conflicting solution's suggested for this by people that ski a whole lot better than I do. Of course my skiing was so off that maybe taking up Wakeboarding would have been a valid suggestion.

 

[webbdawg99]

www.aquaskier.com/articles/ski%20tuning%20hints.pdf

[bigtex2011]

to a certain degree I run the fin longer until it starts to decelerate or pitch me at my offside. i know that will be my maximum length so i go a skoosh shorter than that #. also you may try to leave the fin alone and move only your front binder forward an 1/8" at a time..

 

i am no expert. but that is what i generally do

 

as with anything it is trial and error, good luck and be careful..

[Stevie Boy]

There are many ways to achieve, what you are asking, before changing the ski, have you thought about your setup, like getting up on the boat, if you are skiing narrow this will not help, think about your position, into the bouy or perhaps a little counter rotation, may move your weight onto the front of the ski a little more at 1,3 and 5

Fin adjustment may help or may even make things worse.

[colo_skier]

Agree with everything stated above. I guess I should re-phase the question. What do most people think increasing the fin tip depth ( longer fin length ) to make the offside turn tighter versus making the fin shorter and less tip. This is in regards to this being the only change tried for a lot of other reasons. These 2 solutions were proposed and they are in direct conflict of each other. Just looking for opinion on which one is the most agreed with. BTW I agree with all the above. Just trying to narrow what fin tip really effects.

[webbdawg99]

You are confusing 2 measurements. Will increasing length increase the depth? Yes. But when you increase the length, you'll also need to remeasured depth and set it back to its previous depth....while still maintaining the new length.

 

When you increase length, make sure you only do it be pulling down the front, or tip of the fin. And recheck that you have NOT also increased depth.

 

Length and depth are 2 different measurements. You can and should change one without changing the other.

 

Increased tip or increased length pull the front of the ski into the water in the offside turn. Less tip or length raises the tip of the ski out of the water.

[GOODESkier]

Dave Miller moved my bindings ahead 1/4 inch. Sure made my Nano One come alive and it sure put my off side turn in a better place! Worth a shot before fin changes.

[SkiJay]

@colo_skier There are a number of things that will make the off-side turn tighter including front binding forward, both bindings forward, front binding rotated toes out, longer fin, fin back, shallower fin, more wing angle (or install wing if it's off). Each of these changes affect other parts of the pass in different ways so all of our answers are out of context without seeing you ski in person or on video. Even a still photo of your average to poor off-side turn would help.

 

The most common fin suggestion for a tighter off-side turn you will get is to add more fin length, but understand that what this change does is make it easier for you to engage more of the ski's tip. It doesn't put more ski tip in the water for you. You still have to make the right moves to put more ski in the water. I mention this because I think @Stevie_Boy is on the right track. If your fin is at or close to stock, chances are good that the real issue is that you are not riding far enough forward on your ski during your off-side turns for it to work as designed.

 

Extra fin length will, however, make learning how to ride further forward on your ski riskier by making it too easy to engage too much of the ski's tip when you experiment with riding more centrally or forward on your ski during the off-side. Extra fin length (more than factory spec) increases the risk of breaking at the waist at the ball and going out the front while cutting. Because of this, adding more fin length can actually stunt your progress because you may learn to fear using the front of the ski which is really counterproductive. Less fin length, on the other hand, gives you a more stable, predictable, and forgiving ski which you will really appreciate as you experiment with weight-forward off-side turning techniques. A short fin means you will have to be more deliberate to engage the ski's tip during the off-side, but that's good for your technique. Short fins also deliver more width on both sides of the course.

 

Do try moving your front binding forward a hole with stock settings on the fin. As you learn to ski more centrally on the ski, if you start overloading the tip, move the boot back. If you are not using a wing, putting the wing on can also help get you up over your ski. But here again, in the long run, if you can learn to use the front of your ski without using a wing now, you'll be a better skier in the long run when you eventually need the wing as a brake (somewhere around 28 to 32 off).

 

I hope this is the kind of explanation you were looking for.

[Jordan]

You can also try a fuller front on the fin while maintaining length and depth.

[colo_skier]

Thank-you everyone for the information. The reason I asked this question was that I tried a new ski with a fin set-up and no wing on a new lake that was very different than the fin/wing set-up I was using on my own ski. The new setting where were a RFF skier had them. The ski worked really well like this when I tried it. 3 PB's passes on a shorter rope without me knowing the rope had been shortened. I then set the fin to match what I was used to skiing with a wing and the ski felt completely different and more shut down on the off side turn is the term I would use. I was bending at the waist as if i was expecting the ski to move faster around the buoy. It also seemed harder to get angle and cast the ski out. (15 off 34 MPH) I had been advised that the tip set-up for a RFF versus a LFF was different since you need more tip for a LFF(?) Looking at the numbers the major difference between the fin setting was the amount of tip on the fin. The next was the DFT and then the depth. I understand that this is all very vague and much more information is needed to really address what the issue with my skiing was. I was just really surprised by how much you can effect the characteristics of a ski with just fin adjustments and adding a wing with just 6 degrees. This made me wonder about how my fin/wing set-up may not be ideal to improve my skiing, since I would never have tried doing such a radical change on my original set-up.

[BCM]

I'm not one to adjust my fin regularly, I think the airline baggage handlers have adjusted my fin more than I have... so I am trying to gain a greater understanding of how to make skis work better... the airline got me into -35/36mph...

 

"I had been advised that the tip set-up for a RFF versus a LFF was different since you need more tip for a LFF(?)" - could someone explain this for me? I am not doubting or believing, just not sure why foot forward would matter.

[ForrestGump]

Whoever advised you that a LFF skier needs more tip and that the settings would be different for each doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

If the ski you borrowed felt good, then put those fin settings on yours and go ski. Go with what works.

[A_B]

If I ever jumped on a ski and ran 3 PB passes on it, I would weld the fin in place!

 

Have you ever seen fin settings specify RFF or LFF? Didnt think so... I have this bridge I have for sale at a good price.....

[OTF]

@AB it's only a right lane bridge..........right?

[colo_skier]

Ok, I get it and agree LFF versus RFF fin settings are good swamp land and bridge selling snake oil. I am going to put the fin back to how it was originally and take the wing off. Lets see if it works as good as before. Were's that dam welder?