Erosion control - backwash prevention

[LeonL]

I'm looking for some suggestions for backwash prevention. We have an area that is inaccessible to equipment or dump trucks, so rock is not an option. Has anyone used construction fencing (you know, the orange poly stuff) or perhaps even used tires connected together?

[oldjeep]

Why is rock not an option? Most shore work I see done around here is from a huge pontoon full of rocks

[LeonL]

Due to the severity of the erosion it would probably take 80-100 tons of rock. How is the rock removed from the pontoon? The water is around three feet deep. It would take a lot of rock to taper out so as to get no backwash.

[Wayne]

What is the shore like? Would some type of water grass or cat-tails take hold and not be too invasive to the lake?

[LeonL]

Actually I think the water is too deep for any grass that would help, or cat tails to grow. Also I'm looking for quick fix.

[ski6jones]

Photo?

[E_T]

Would floating barrels be a option to slow down the wakes?

[Wish]

Snow fence... and it does not have to be bright orange. Not a perfect solution but quick and may work. Never used it though.

 

http://www.gemplers.com/product/G51920/Heavy-duty-Utility-Snow-Fence?gclid=CPzNrPnQ8L4CFVFp7AodMWAAfQ&sku=G51920&CID=25SEPLA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=G51920&ef_id=UwV4HgAABClcX13o20140611010650s

[LeonL]

I don't know if photos would give an accurate assessment, but I'll give it a try. Wouldn't floating barrels bounce wakes back as bad as the squared shorline?

[Wish]

I watched the tires used at Cyprus Gardens (Lego Land) during a ski show. From the lake you can literally drive your boat up on them and watch the show. The tires must be 15' deep sooooo LOOOOOOTS of tires. It did break the waves down a bit but most still made it through as the tires just went up and down with them.

[oldjeep]

The pontoons have a crane.

[MattP]

@ob

[BraceMaker]

Tires are just uggo - that's a scientific term.

 

Does the lake drop off sharply in this area?

[Wish]

Just to be clear, the mention of the tires was to eliminate the idea of using them as they did not do that much and I would assume any floating type solution would be similar.

[BraceMaker]

Snow fence could be interesting - might be something where you would position several rows - progressively higher in height so the first row was sub waterlevel, and the last was higher than the wakes hit.

 

A few layers set at an angle such that the fence leans towards shore allowing the waves to pass through more easily and the rebound less so.

 

[A_B]

We had some washed out areas and we filled first with clay and then rip rap on top. Saved a lot of stone.

Clay is abundantly available on our site, so free.

[gregy]

I googled erosion control tires for lakes and there was some info.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~rdutnell/Tire_Mattress_Final_Report_0323041.pdf

[thager]

We used snow fence on our course when I was a kid. Pound in two rows of stakes about 3 feet apart down length of problem area. Tie lakeside fence low under water. Tie shoreside above water to form about a 35-45 degree rise. Waves flow through gap in stake going to shore and receding wave is further busted up exiting to lake.

[walleye]

@LeonL We have used snow fence and it does work somewhat, It is a eye sore. Depending on how much you have to do. We had 1/4 mile x 2 to do on both side of the lake, so only one side got done so the rollers just bounced off the other side. I used PVC pipe for stakes with cable ties to secure, I also double rowed it still let some backwash thru.

 

My permanate fix was water lillies (justicia Americanna). They are highly recommened Kansas Wildlife and parks. They are using them most lakes in Kansas. The lilly will only grow to certain depths, they are very hardy and easy to plant. The lilly can take huge fluctuations in water depth and survive. The lillies will spread rapidly, each branch is a rhizon you just stick a branch in the mud or rock and it will grow. You will have to secure them at first if you are hitting them with boat wash. Once you get a plot started then you can harvest and plant them in other locations for quicker coverage. Find a lake that has them to harvest. You can pull them or cut them, keep em wet stick em in them mud. In about a week they will be secured. Make sure you are not harvesting from a lake that has zebra mussels. I have lots of them and lots of snow fence you can have but I am in Kansas.

 

Cat tails are very invasive and can take over your lake. They will not grow in muddy water and if you do not already have them chances are your lake will not grow them.

[Flyboy]

How much of the snow fence did you put above the water line.

[thager]

about 1.0 to 1.5 feet.

[LeonL]

The snow fencing (I first mentioned it calling it construction fence) seems to have merit. Would be much easier than tires. As far as eyesore, it's on the far side of the lake from where anyone is and would be. I purchased and installed 100' of green snow fence in the most troublesome area. I'll report back as to effectiveness.

[Flyboy]

Thanks, I'm anxious to hear your report on its effectiveness. We re-excavated part of our lake and planted trees and bermuda grass for erosion control. I'm hearing it takes at least 3 years for the roots to form for shoreline protection. I hoping the snow fence idea can get us on the lake quicker.

[addkerr]

@scotchipman‌ if it as good as it looks, maybe a great addition to my big lake as a spit.

[lpskier]

Snow fencing is a waste of time. We just had reasonably good success using 4" dia. corrugated pipe along each side of the slalom course. The perforated pipe is a lot easier to work with than the solid pipe. For floatation, use swim noodles. If you are using a 50' or 100' roll, you'll need to make a slightly longer ramrod from 1/2" PVC to string the pipe with the ropes and floats. The system isn't perfect, but it helps. $66.00 per 100' at Lowes. Noodles are $1.00 at the Dollar Store and $3 at Walmart. The best solution is tires or phone poles floating on the surface, the more the merrier, but that is a lot of work and expense.

[Jody_Seal]

Olando Watersports park utilizes a refuse tire set up. it is tight and really does not look that obtrusive.

at about 26 sec in you can see this tire barrier/back wash ab-ater

[Than_Bogan]

That video of the Whispr Wave is absolutely remarkable. Assuming it's not an ingenious digital edit, that seems like a potential gamechanger. As slalomers we are concerned about reflection, which means the wake passes through there twice. 10% through each time nets to 1% and thats if you had perfectly reflective walls as the shoreline. If the shoreline damps anything the net effect could be amazing.

 

That said, we have a concern about reflection off the barrier itself. Hard to see if that is happening or not.

 

Probably crazy expensive?

[ntx]

I have worked with (manufacturer and designed) a product that is very similar to this on a smaller scale that is used in competetive swimming pools. The problem is that it works in reverse of what we want in sking. This deflects the waves or rollers back to the source. (back into the course) We need something that allows the rollers thru the barrier, onto the shore, and does not allow them back thru the barrier into the course. Think in lines of a one way flapper. Opens to allow waves thru and closes so that they can't come back. I have worked on several prototypes to accomplish that. None of them can be produced at a price point that would make it affordable.

[LeonL]

To report back on the poly fencing I put up back in July, it has some merit. The key is the amount of open vs closed arear of the fencing. The stuff you get at Lowes or Home Depot is about 85% open, the stuff I got is 55% open. It does make a difference for our application. Others say it's no good, but it helps us.

I'm sure the stuff @scotchipman‌ mentioned is far beyond our budget, but it looks like it works well.

[Than_Bogan]

Holy Sticker Shock, Batman!

 

The waveeater is advertising how "cheap" it is at $150 per lineal foot. I figure any course applications needs a minimum of 1200' on each side, or 2400'. That's $360,000...

[wski1831]

We put up cyclone fence with the plastic slats in it. Then brought in clumps of tules and tied them to it in the shallower areas to try and get them to grow. Isn't a cure all,but helps, and been pretty durable.

[LeonL]

@Than_Bogan‌, I figure I can get by with 900' and only on one side, so it'll only cost me $135,000.00. Where do I order from and how soon can I get it?

I could get a lot of heavy equipment work done for 100K.

[Edbrazil]

 

I have sure seen riprap rock work surprisingly well on steep banks at a couple of Pro Tour stops.

These were at St. Paul and at the "Precedent" in Indianapolis. Banks that were nearly 45

degrees steep. Maybe something that could be done with transporting by pontoon boat, or

even by truck in the Winter if you get ice there. Rocks ranging fist size to head size.

 

Something I've theorized on but not tried would be PVC pipe capped so water doesn't get in.

Maybe 4 inch size. Set floating a few feet off shore, but not floating freely, and restrained so

that it makes waves break over it. Think artificial reef. I've got a diagram somewhere in my

files It should be EZ to make a test design that's a short distance, just a few pipe sections.

 

Snow fence and similar types don't really do much in my experience. Tire barriers: yes, but

they are massive and unsightly. They had one at Cypress Gardens. Think it's based on some

work by the U. of Rhode Island.

[Wish]

Cypress Gardens....Now Lego Land still has them in the lake and they still do a waterski show. You can still watch it from the lake side by running your boat up in the tires a bit. I payed close attention to the wave action as this has been discussed before. The number of tires used is insane. Lets call it a floating island of them. It's hundreds of yards long and easily 20+ feet wide. Which is why you can park half or better of a boat on it. Now place the tires standing up in that amount of space all tied together in a brick pattern. Crazy amount of tires needed. Waves get knocked down but by no means eliminated. Tires go up and down with boat waves. They do come out on the other side just more of a role and much lower. Don't think they would work to isolate a course on a big lake like that. Would not expect decent skiable conditions but would be affective along a shore for backwash.