Knees

[Stevie Boy]

Can anybody put me in touch with anybody who has had Partial or Complete Knee Replacement, that has continued to water ski and run the course on a short line of any length ?

I may have to consider my options at the end of this season.

[Razorskier1]

A friend had one this winter. I think he is skiing again.

[thager]

My option was physical therapy or knee replacement for severe arthithis. I chose therapy working hard all winter in the gym. So far so good. Was thinking Lucky Lowe but that was hip replacement I think.

[Stevie Boy]

Anybody know Leon Jones, he was planning a knee replacement back in 2009 ?

[6balls]

Have you exhausted non-surgical options...synvisc injection, cortico-steroid injection, PT, oral NSAID's, topical NSAID's, glucosamine chondroitin?

[Stevie Boy]

@6balls, I have already had microfracture surgery on the patella, my instincts tell me that I am not far away from bone on bone again, there are different options regarding, Partial or Total replacement, or though it is still recommended not to waterski, down to the cement cracking. There is talk of parts where the tissue/bone grows into the implant, doing away with the cement, I am sure there is someone who skis after one of these surgeries, at Okeehelee.

I can never run my opening pass, because it bites me, after one or two attempted passes it seems to settle down, no amount of stretching and exercising it before hand seems to help.

[Ed_Obermeier]

I'm in pretty much the same unfortunate situation as @ Stevie Boy. I eat glucosamine/chondroitin/msm/fish oil/NSAID's like candy (I can only imagine what all those NSAID's are doing to my liver...) and stretch extensively once a day if not more. It keeps me going, that and a full metal Breg knee brace on the right (rear foot) knee, but it isn't a permanent fix by any means. I've done the cortico-steroid injections (lasts 2 - 3 weeks tops then wears off completely), doing ongoing PT both with a trainer and on my own (probably helps more than anything else), try to keep my weight down etc. But I can tell the knee is slowly deteriorating and some day will reach that point.

 

My MD is also my main ski buddy and we've discussed all this in detail. If I understand what he's told me correctly Synvisc is basically just another temporary fix, long run it doesn't permanently solve anything and once it wears off it's no longer an option, so what's the point other than buying a little time I suppose? He does tell me though that we'd have to run through all the options before surgery can be discussed.

 

I'm trying to avoid surgery by any means possible but like Stevie I fear it's only a matter of time. I can't really say that getting old in and of itself sucks (it beats the alternative...) but the wear and tear of time and trying to remain athletic into advancing age sure does test ones resolve.

 

But I ain't quittin'!

[wskier]

Guys check out these products Beneflex or TRX flex. I just started Beneflex today will report back one way or the other.

[cragginshred]

The current partial knees are being done with robotic technology which provides exactness that no human eye allows. In the PT clinic we are seeing very fast rehab time due to the minimally invasive procedure . As to the return to ski and rope lengths each ortho Doc will likely tell you something slightly different. But it comes down to what your day to day functional use of the knee is and are you willing to ramp down your current line lengths to prolong the new joint? Pm me with any PT related questions,...glad to help!

[Stevie Boy]

Surgery options available.

Conformis full or partial, custom knees, miminal invasive surgery, less cutting of bone, you get to keep your ligaments, at the moment parts cemented in place.

 

Mc Minn, Birmingham knee replacement, designed by Mc Minn, but has much thicker plastic surface, he has a patient who does continue to waterski after the procedure, but not shortline.

http://whttp://www.mcminncentre.co.uk/blog/?p=34

www.mcminncentre.co.uk/colin-drew-birmingham-knee-replacement.html

 

 

My particular Knee Doc, was very specific and put across very strongly that, he was very good at knee replacement and I would not be waterskiing after surgery.

 

On the other hand a lady friend, had TKR and snow skis with absoutley, no discomfort at all.

 

@cragginsshred what is the issues / concerns regards waterskiing after Partial or full replacement, is it the shock, cracking cement or the risk of crashing, or just down to the wear factor.

 

[Stevie Boy]

More Info on the conformis knee

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2657986/Back-ski-knees-thanks-3D-printer-Bespoke-replacements-using-new-technology-reduces-recovery-time.html

[Razorskier1]

Doctors aren't going to tell you to ski with a knee or hip replacement. There is no benefit to them telling you to push the limits. I will assure you that I will rehab like a monster and ski like crazy someday when I have my knee replacements.

[Bulldog]

My old ski partner had both of his knees replaced and he still skied quite well afterwards...

[skistrom]

I am scheduled to have my right knee replace in August. Thought I could make it thru the summer, but for whatever reason, the knee quickly took a turn for the worse. FYI, I had a cortisone shot as a last option, it didn't help. Unfortunately, this is now delaying my surgery because the cortisone has to be completely out of my system before they'll operate. I think it's a 3 month timeline.

We've got several skiers around that have had replacements, one had a knee and one had a hip. Both are skiing and the one that had the knee (Ron Warman) said his knee feels great!

Not fun getting old!

[Bubski]

I had my left knee replaced March of 2012 and had a good 2013 season running mid 35's and I had my right knee replaced in Feb. of this year and have just started back skiing and I think it is going to work fine. My doctor said that I could go back skiing after 12 weeks. It's not like the knee the good lord gave me but it is much better that the bone on bone pain I had before. I'm 62 and hope to be back strong by end of this season.

[A_B]

My wife just had both knees replaced and on the final checkup last week, I asked her doc if someone could waterski afterwards, and he said "if someone already knew how to ski, I would say yes go ahead, but if they were trying to learn something new, maybe not so much". He also said snow skiing is fine. He is a prominent Cleveland Clinic guy who is a snow skier.

[racerdjs]

March of 2012, I had a total knee replacement. First ski run 57 days later. I had the worst bone on bone that the surgeon had ever seen. I chose the Biomet Signature knee where they did an MRI and built the cutting jigs and the replacement knee was designed just for me. Preplanned pins where the surgeon did no measuring and the accuracy was 0.1 mm. I am not a short line skier maybe 28off 3-4 times a season but at least I'm skiing again with no pain. 13 physical therapy where they knew I wanted to ski and soon. I hope this helps and I can provide more information.

[racerdjs]

I was 58 when the surgery was done.

[Stevie Boy]

My surgeon is adamant I will not ski with a replacement knee, but is willing to give a Partial Replacement a go, I am only looking to raid my bank account once, looks like I will have to speak to other surgeons, I cannot get to the bottom of why he is so sure it would not be possible to ski, it seems like there are several people who continue to ski after knee replacement.

[racerdjs]

Stevie, I can not tell you how much anxiety I had after the 57 days on the first deep water start. I did not know how it would feel, whether it would break somehow or twist and snap. Nothing but a smooth out and no feeling of stress or pain. It's been that way for over two years. One thing I can warn you on: while pulling off my dry suit and stepping on the suit pulling the new knee joint apart, I pulled too hard and the knee came out of its resting area. I was upset but just sat down and gently pushed it back into the socket. I will not ever pull the knee in this matter again. No harmful lasting damage was done. Then while talking to another knee replacement patient, he said he was not able to fly fish with waders. If you think about it, when your are in unstable bottom conditions, you are pulling your knee apart in the same matter. After two seasons of waterskiing and riding a road bicycle 5000 miles per year, my active life is back again.

[racerdjs]

My wife just reminded my that I showed my doctor a typical run. While he was at a knee replacement seminar, it was showed this to other doctors and they all stated that it should be fine. Open water skiing with rough water and rollers might have a different result with different stresses. Besides draining your bank account, you do not want to go thru the operation again.

[crashman]

My (former) ski partner is in this same situation- in need of a knee replacement and told he should never ski again. The not skiing /inactivity is literally killing him.

[A_B]

 

[cragginshred]

At sonora regional medical center where I work in PT the new addition to the total joint dept is the 'Mako plasty'. A computer guided rig that allows the orthos to do the partials or 'Uni's' with an exactness that was never available before. Faster rehab times and much less invasive! On some occasions the procedure turns into a total due to not being 100% going in but it is a good option!

 

[Dee Jim Yeager]

I had a total knee replacement at the end of March and was skiing again by the end of June. My doctor - Tom King (ironically) at Portsmouth Regional Hospital, Portsmouth, NH is a slalom skier himself and said there wouldn't be a problem with skiing after doing the proper PT. He gave me the green light to go after only 12 weeks. I took it easy at first, but the knee feels great and the skiing doesn't seem to bother it at all. I would highly recommend Dr. King and his staff at PRH. They know knees and they know water skiing.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Time to revive this thread. It's official - had a MRI and x-rays last week that confirm that I need a total knee replacement on my right knee. There is no rehab, no exercise, no shots I can take that will make any difference. All 3 compartments have significant damage so a partial isn't an option. No surprise, this has been coming on for a lot of years now - been wearing a full metal knee brace to ski for 5+ years now, been working with an excellent trainer last 2+ years who focuses me on strengthening my knees/hips/core etc - but it's kind of sobering to actually be told it's gotta happen. Not planning on having it done until October so one more summer with the knee brace and ibuprofen.

 

If anyone has knowledge or experience with a specific type or brand of replacement knee, specific type of surgical technique, any questions I should be asking a surgeon etc I would sincerely welcome the information. The more knowledge I can go into this with the better. Traveling outside the Kansas City area for a specific surgeon or hospital is probably out of the realm of possibility due to insurance considerations but there seem to be plenty of well qualified ortho's here that can handle the job. I'd just like to be able to get as specific in questioning them as possible and at least attempt to get the best knee/surgical technique/surgeon etc available.

 

I intend to continue skiing for a long time. If I gotta do it I wanna get it right the first try. Been digging through all the info I can find on the Web but info from skiers who have life experience with this is worth a lot more to me. Appreciate the input.

[Stevie Boy]

Hi Ed , sry to here that you have reached the stage where you are facing knee replacement, like every thing I think there is good and bad and difficult choices to be made, I am not a surgeon but I think they remove the ligaments, there is the Mc Minn Birmingham Knee which has more material and is supposed to move in a way that mimics the normal knee, but other replacement knees are said to be pretty good these days, after discussing the knee replacement, it comes down to how it is done, a lot of people are saying the robotic surgery is good.

If I remember there was an article posted on this forum about Nicos, a greek champion waterskier who got through 11 metres, he had knee problems went to see some guy in New York who carried out robotic surgery on him, he is now back skiing competively after short rehab.

 

https://backinthegame.hss.edu/story/nicos-frangistas/

Read this link:

[kstateskier]

@Ed_Obermeier Sorry to hear this news buddy. Guess we better get lots in this summer before you go under the knife. I'll get you in touch with Tim - he not only has had knee surgery but is a pro PT so he would no doubt have good advice for you. I'll call ya.

 

BTW skiing friday, holler!

[The_MS]

@Ed_Obermeier Sorry to hear the news.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Really appreciate the kind thoughts guys, thank you. I don't really see this as being any sort of disaster or big negative, it's just kind of one of those things life throws at you that you just have to deal with head on. I kind of did this to myself I suppose (ignorance of youth) and in a way I'm a victim of my own self imposed circumstances. If only I hadn't thought taking up distance running at age 25 (on top of playing basketball since I was a kid) was a good idea... Just wasn't built to be a runner I guess. I enjoyed running, but my knees and hips didn't.

 

In a somewhat perverse way I'm kinda looking forward to getting it done. Certainly not looking forward to surgery and rehab but I AM looking forward to having more function and less discomfort than I've been dealing with for a lot of years now. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to be fearful of getting it done; got 6 months to think about that though. But I'm not gonna let it keep me from continuing a sport I thoroughly enjoy. Haven't spoken to a single person yet, skier or otherwise, who regrets having it done.

 

Thanks again to all for the messages and kind thoughts. Keep the info coming please.

[34mph]

There should be no reason you guys can't get back to sking ! Go for it . This comes from a PT and a Owner for many years of A PT clinic. Good luck

[Dusty]

I had a total knee replacement in 2005. I'm not really a shortline skier (3@-32 tournament pb), but have been able to waterski, snow ski and maintain all of my normal activities. My TKR was due to a motorcycle wreck in '81, eventually leaving no meniscus, and bone on bone. Rehab was not light entertainment and certainly not pain free, but overall I still feel it was worth it. If I can do it, anyone can!

[DanE]

@Dusty How old are you if I may ask?

Do you feel that the artificial knee is holding you back?

What kind of tkr was it, a new joint or “refurbishing“ joint surfaces?

[waterskicorey]

@Ed_Obermeier I am going in for total hip replacement on May 27th and I can't wait, I have been dealing with the pain for about 5 years and enough is enough as I'm sure you know. You will be fine, and back skiing sooner than you think, I know some guys with new knees and they are back skiing, they say it is that it is as good as new. Make sure you get a great surgeon who says that you will be back skiing. The first one I saw said that he could only get me back walking and that I should look for a desk job ( I am a firefighter, and I work with 6 other guys that have had a hip replacement). HE IS NOT DOING MY SURGERY. The one that is doing mine told me that if I do the rehab, get it strong, that I will have no limitations what so ever, it will be as good as new, but no skiing for 6 months, so I am skiing as much as I can till I have the surgery. :-) I can't walk very good for a day or so but it is worth it. Keep working out and keep it strong as the stronger it is before the surgery the quicker you recover. Good luck

[Bulldog]

My old ski partner from a few years ago skied very successfully with both knees replaced. He did not run deep shortline but truly enjoyed being out on the water.

[Dusty]

for @DanE- I am 63 now. I was 54 when he did the TKR- titanium, plastic, stainless, the whole deal. Doc looked at the remains of the joint and said I was young for the TKR but he had nothing else for me. I don't think it's holding me back- being 63 might :-) but the knee has been pretty pain free, has better range, and I do all the stuff I did before a little better, in spite of the age. I have even made a few more sky dives, which I gave up after the wreck. I don't go crazy stupid on the mountain and icy days are not my thing at all, but overall it's mo better.

[A_B]

Ed, my wife had both knees replaced last summer at the same time. She was not a water skier but I asked a lot of questions to her Doc and he said if you did a sport before surgery there wouldn't be a major problem doing it after surgery. He just warned about picking up a new sport like snow skiing if you never did it before. His rationale was that you tend to take more falls out of control and are higher risk. I specifically asked about water skiing, because my right knee seems to be headed down that path, and he said water skiing shouldn't be a problem, particularly because in slalom your legs are together on a ski.

 

My wife has no second thoughts about getting it done. It was about down to do you want to walk or not for her.

[Stathis Ventouris]

Nick Fragistas, I believe there was an article on him on waterski mag March or April issue (if not mistaken), there is wall post of him at La Guardia airport in NY. He skied his first competition after 121 days from surgery and went deep into 35 off.

[Stathis Ventouris]

at 62

 

[6balls]

Pretty sure Lucky Lowe has had hip replacement and continued deep shortline.

[MISkier]

One of the guys in our club had his hip replaced last year. He is 57 or 58. Last week, he ran 2 32s and 6 35s in one set. Seems to be OK.

[ForrestGump]

One thing I've found for me is that orthopedic surgeons who are themselves athletes seem to be able to make me feel better about having a procedure done. Because they understand not only the physiology of being an athlete, but also the drive.

[Than_Bogan]

Also, we all have to be careful when asking "can I waterski?" because unless your doctor has gone out the front at 50mph, it's unlikely he/she actually understands what that question means.

 

"Sure, you can stand there and hold out your hands"...

[Patmaster]

Nick Frangistas did it at Hospital for Special Surgery in NY. I saw him last summer qualifying for a head to head with Andy Mapple in France.

[Deke]

I'd like to know more about what the doctors think the risks are. The pulling out of the drysuit story above is sort of telltale. But what are the doctors really afraid of? Cement cracking, no ligaments holding things together, bone breakage, dislocation? My doctor said the same thing that @A_B relayed... if you already do the sport you can go back, but taking on something new you need to watch it.

 

I had both of my hips replaced a bit more than a year ago and was skiing again 12 weeks after the second one. I am not a shortline skier but I have a far better chance to improve now than I did prior to surgery. Aside from strength, there were no issues, no pain and holy cow my range of motion may be better than ever. On another note, I was ice skating only 5 weeks after each surgery and playing hockey again after six months, and snow skiing after 9 months. My doctors only real concern is a broken femur.

 

I admit that it has been a lot of work and I am still working out the muscular tweaks and rebuilding stuff that I lost long before surgery, but the benefits far outweigh where I was coming from. Oh, and I'm 58.

[Stevie Boy]

I spent two weeks skiing in the states, when I came back to the UK the weather was so bad ,I only got two sets in, then I had other commitments which kept me off the water for two weeks, I skied today, basically had four passes and failed to turn one ball on every attempt, the pain was much stronger than ever before I had to stop, see a knee guy in a weeks time, hoping he will tell me a DURALINE injection will help me out if not I do not know what I am going to do.

The only other thing I can come up with is where they kill your nerves in your knee to take the pain away, it lasts for six months before the nerves come back to life again.

 

Link: http://ioverahealth.com./index.php

[LLUSA]

Make sure if it's your hip, opt for a surgeon that will do the anterior approach. Lucky's had one anterior and one posterior he will tell you the truth. Anterior, no muscle cutting, smaller incision, less rehab, quicker recovery.

 

[Stevie Boy]

So what do you do if, you can walk around and do your everyday chores with relatively little discomfort, but going to the Gym and Water Skiing, gives you a whole lot of discomfort and pain, do you give the water skiing a miss or do you opt for a partial knee, which means there is no going back and you are going to have metal and plastic in your knee with no guarantees.

 

What would be your call ?

[Cayman2]

Try stem cells. Regenex in Denver.

[Stevie Boy]

So if you wanted to show a surgeon/consultant a video of slalom skiing, with a view of wanting to slalom after a knee replacement, what sort of video would you show him to try and get across that you are not a Pro but there are some forces at work, bearing in mind that you want him to support your return to slalom water skiing.