Reflex binding too close for safety?

[GaryWilkinson]

Just bought Mapple version front binding and am installing it on Vapor 67.

Put the front at rini's setting 29.875" and if I put my rear foot in the r-style, I can't tip or pivot the release barrel back far enough to get my boot in the front binding. I have to put the front in first, pivot and lock the barrel upright then put my rear foot in.

 

This concerns me in that in an OTF fall that barrel has to pivot backwards freely to enable a quick and safe release, this is after all why I spent the $ to get more safe releases. If I move the rear further back:

= wider stance! wider than I'm used to

= weight further back maybe producing more weight on tail, trying to avoid this.

= harder pulls due to less ski in water,.... And so on.

 

Anyone else have this?

Is the only fix to move that bad foot further back and quit whining?

 

What do you all think?

 

Thanks

[GaryWilkinson]

As you can see, my rear binding is as far as it can go already so the only solution is to move the front forward at least 3/4" !? Not a good option, it would then be almost 30.75 from tail!!

[Than_Bogan]

OB4 :)

[thager]

You could move the rear binding back on the rear plate thus not affecting the front position. Should be room and would only require a drill, drill bit and countersink

[bhs]

I had a similar issue but in an OTF it always released. I just leave the boot in and get in and out using the liner. The only time the boot comes off is in an OTF. Your other issue maybe that liner which is very thick. I went back to the thin Reflex liner.

As they say no binding system is perfect, but my R style worked every time in OTF

[GaryWilkinson]

After 2+ hours of tinkering, adjusting and putting on and off I'm able to get it on and off and simulate a release without the barrel being impeded by the rear liner and toe but I'm not able to get to Rini's setting of 29.875".

 

Hopefully will try it out tomorrow.

 

Thanks @Thager @bhs

[Marco]

I had the same issue when I tried the Reflex front with a Strada rear. My options were to cut the top of the strada off to gain room (exposing my toes), or sticking with my open toe'd D3 rear Leverage binding. I opted to stick with the leverage...

[skialex]

Cut the front of the shell some more to where the arms of the Silvretta touch it.

Good luck,

Alex

[bkreis]

in the photo, the release is locked although not clamped to boot, unlock then clip it tight without your leg in boot, this how i have to use mine w r style. lock in front boot then step into boots and buckle. pm me if you a ?, i've used this system for 3 years and love it.

[Deanoski]

Ronni setting on a 67 is 30.25. Rossi is 29 7/8

[skier2788]

@GaryWilkinson‌ my size 12 reflex front is so big I can't put my front boot in going straight down. I have to bring the heel in from the side. It is a lot tighter than that against my r style. I have never had a release issue.

[jayski]

I leave the boot locked on the ski, as far as release goes in a OTF your back foot is going to come out well enough before the front releases, two such events to justify it this year...

[OKSkier]

I have a strada as my rear and is jammed up way more with no problem you need to unlock it and then it will easily fit over

[Waternut]

As said by others a typical OTF will have your back foot releasing before the front. However, if you blow the tail and manage to release, your back foot may stay in the binding. This isn't a concern for releasing as the boot will find a way to get out but it may really hurt your toes on your back foot if the release bar hits your toes... I've had that happen a couple times and it's not a pleasant feeling.

[GaryWilkinson]

Thanks so much for the input.

 

I'm just worried about the front rattling around in the binding even with the release barrel down and back against the toe of the rear.

 

I'll try some changes tomorrow.

[Chuck_Dickey]

Trimmed the front plastic shell of the R-Style. I have to put the tie of the front shell in the horseshoe and slid the heel block in from the side. Releases fine

[GaryWilkinson]

I'll give that a go thanks

[rockdog]

I have the same setup @GaryWilkinson‌ and have had no issue whatsoever. I definitely cannot put the rear in first as the release will not go back far enough to get front boot in and I need to force that release down to get that front in but that's ok.

 

I haven't had an OTF but have had several tail blowouts and it works great. The force generated by such is plenty sufficient to force that release open and can't even feel it on the rear toes.

[Jordan]

Hmmmm....in your picture, you have the prongs on the release against the block on the boot.

 

If you were using this release on an alpine boot, it would rest on top of that block.

 

In Andy Mapple's On the Dock video, he has it set-up where the contact point is above that block, and against the back of the shell. This would move the mechanism into a more upright position that would give your toes on your back foot more room. There is a very clear look at this at 4:15 in the video.

 

 

[BraceMaker]

@jordan, my assumption is that he just has it like that to illustrate the positioning of the release unit - I am sure he puts it above the block, as pictured the boot would lift right off the plate.

 

In alpine configuration the release doesn't go on a block, it actually goes onto the welt of the boot's sole, which is thicker, but also has a rubber pad under it.

 

[skinut]

Take a look at my binding. Your release can open more in order to let you put your boot in it. If you look at my release you can see it can rotate further.

[GaryWilkinson]

Yes @bracemaker @jordan I put the crescent hook onto the block and pull upwards to lock in place. But as mentioned, I have to put the front in first.

 

And someone mentioned that in an OTF your rear foot comes out first so I'm counting on that!

 

[Chuck_Dickey]

@GaryWilkinson My set up looks just like yours and I put my back foot in first. Front toe in the loop then (Pivot) slide the heel block under the crescent hook.

[rockdog]

Something wrong @tjm?

 

[BraceMaker]

You all "release" the reflex mount the boot, then put the prongs onto the block, and then "snap" the silvretta into engagement correct?

 

Or are some of you closing the silvretta, and then forcing it over the heel block?

[Chuck_Dickey]

Disengage the release, put the boot in place then lift and lock in place.

[Than_Bogan]

@gator1 has thought about this a lot more than I have, but I would definitely NOT assume your rear foot ejects in an OTF. One of the most dangerous scenarios is where the forces conspire to keep a lot of pressure on the back foot while the front knee goes toward the ski, tearing the Achilles. The individual release of a reflex or OB4 will often save you as will a single plate with Gatormod. There's still some debate about the details, but I strongly believe you want some system that has at least a chance to save your Achilles in this type of fall.

[tjm]

@rockdog ????? Saw it. iPhone stuff. Was not aware of that comment

[rockdog]

@tjm no worries, thought as much.

[chris_logan]

I agree with the above posts by @bkreis, @jayski, and @Chuck_Dickey. I also took a file to my R style to allow an opening for the arms on the release to lay all the way back. My setup is closer than the setup you have pictured. I am still able to put my back foot in first, tighten down, then slide my front foot in from the side and clamp down the silvretta with no issue at all. (I am in size 12 boots as well)

[PatM]

I am in the same system. have no problems with how close it is. I did notice you have a different plate for the R-style than I do. Maybe that could be the issue. @Than_Bogan‌ the R-style acts like a rear toe strap and releases easily in an out the front. With the force on an out the front I can't see the back foot staying in.

[BraceMaker]

@"Pat M"‌ I think sometimes people get confused by, the OP is concerned that his back foot will prevent the reflex from opening, but that if his back foot pulls out of the R-style before the front release trips that there will be sufficient clearance.

 

@Than_Bogan‌ is stating that many of the reasons people are talking about using releases like the Reflex, the OB4, or any of the boots where the liner pulls out of the shell on release is that the FRONT ankle can get stuffed prior to pulling on the back binding hard enough to release a dual boot hardshell.

 

For this reason you'd see folks in dual hardshell single plates go and crash, all the while tearing up a front ankle whilst the rear ankle comes out fine or possibly doesn't release.

 

For this reason @gator1 has postulated is that if you utilize a lever mechanism attached to the back of the rear of the plate which is pulled on by a rigid cord connected to a cuff on the front knee - that the action of sudden dorsiflexion of the front ankle compared to the ski will pull the cord "popping" the release before the natural lifting of the rear heel would do so. Thereby disengaging the plate and the forces of being on a 66+" ski during your fall.

 

My opinion - the reflex release is clamping down and forwards on the boot into the horseshell.

 

Once the release unit "pops" the body swings such that the metal bail can stay essentially vertical.

 

 

@GaryWilkinson‌ - take the same picture, but latch the boot, and then "pop" the head and swing the head back with out the metal swiveling - where does it go in terms of clearing the heel ledge.

[GaryWilkinson]

@BraceMaker‌ et al, I will do a sequence of pix to show how the proximity of the release "barrel" on the front foot impedes it's release by the toes of the rear foot on a normal spacing set up.

 

(On another note, anyone know how to reduce the size of the pic by an iPhone for display?) I'm guessing in the "Edit" button?

[MattP]

@GaryWilkinson‌ add width="50%" before /> in the code. Or some other percentage.