slow speed wake for kids: sn200 vs new prostar?

[nski]

I hate to open this can of worms but really need some input here. For those of you who have experience with both the sn200 and new prostar, which do you think has the better long line/slow speed wake for kids starting in the course? It is unrealistic for me to get my kids behind both to make a decision and so any thoughts you guys might have would be extremely helpful. Do your best to suppress brand loyalty to the degree that's possible. Thanks in advance for your input.

[disland]

Based on seeing B/G 1 skiers at tournaments all summer. I think both mfg have figured this out now.

[MISkier]

I can offer this observation. At our last tournament 3 weeks ago, there were two girls skiing - ages 7 and 9. I believe the speeds ranged from 15 mph to 21 mph. I heard them tell their Dad, unsolicited, that they liked the wake of the new Prostar. Their Mom said that both skied up to their PBs. I can't offer any comparison to the 200.

[Jody_Seal]

If your serious about your kids skiing I don't think I would worry about the wakes so much as getting the kids quality time on the water and good coaching. My son had to ski behind Python equipped Bubble back Nautiques in his boy's 1-2 years as his practice boats, became a top level three event skier because of his early coaching and our adherence to quality water time. You could show up at a tournament and have to ski with 800# plus crew load !!! What then? on the other side also might want to check out what product gets used the most in your area for tournaments / trials ( we dont have tournaments anymore!)

[jhughes]

Good point from Jody. You get a couple bigger driver/judge/safety folks in the boat and you're the first pull off the dock with a full tank of gas, all the boats are going to give you quite a wake to contend with particularly if you're used to 1 driver and an empty boat with 1/4 tank of gas like I am.

[nski]

Points well taken @Jody_Seal‌ and @jhughes. We are in a 196 currently and get a great deal of water time. Trying to justify the upgrade and to make sure I optimize that upgrade by getting the kids the best wake possible.

[Horton]

@nski‌

Looking at Centurion also? Tiny wakes.

[swc5150]

If you were currently running a 197, I'd say an upgrade would serve your kids well (either the 200 or MC). Running a 196, I don't think you'll gain much in terms of wake for them.

[Horton]

Just saying.... CP wakes

[ChadW]

@nski I just upgraded from a 196 to a 200. I would say the wake is different, but not necessarily smaller than my old 196. The 200 wake feels softer and the trough is less. The biggest difference I've noticed is how nice the 200 drives. I justified the upgrade by telling myself and my wife that we needed an open bow.

[nski]

Impressive video evidence for CP @horton. But like @chadw, I "need" the open bow for the kids. If I recall you did a write up on the prostar wakes awhile back - comparable to what you show in that video?

[Horton]

Fair enough

[swc5150]

Since the wakes won't be the deal breaker, definitely go drive/ski both. If you ski on public water, I think you'll prefer the softer ride of the 200...since you're already used to the 196. The Prostar still has a pretty jarring ride over bumps (my C cup wife had enough of it after a 15 test drive). That bow cap and ZO interface are really nice though.

[iceboating]

Swc5150 that's great info, one of my concerns as well. Does any one have input on the ride of Carbon Pro and TXI compared to the 200?

[PatM]

The 200 drives better than the Prostar

[swc5150]

@nski‌

Since you're skiing with your kids, do they drive you as well? I can tell you with the 200, I can pop my 12 year old nephew into the helm, and get an arrow straight pull... and he sometimes has the focus of a bobble head.

 

There are only two things about the 200 I personally needed to dial in. First, it has a crazy snappy hole shot (343), and I had to learn to feed the throttle softly pulling skiers up, especially my tiny wife. Second, the nose is low and can easily take a rollover over the top at idle. You have to be on your game in boaty water, if you want riders up front to stay dry.

[Horton]

The reality is all 4 current tournament boats are pretty equal. The things I like about one boat over another are mostly picky. I have skied within a ball of my PB behind all 4. Set up right they all drive good.

 

I am admittedly in bed with Centurion and am pretty darn happy about it. Beside a lack of an open bow option I do not see anything about the Carbon Pro I would change and it costs less. If I did not do business with Centurion my first choice would still be Carbon Pro. I guess I am now officially biased.

 

I have at least one negative comment or story about each of the other 3 brands but if you do the following you can’t go wrong.

 

1) Buy a promo boat instead of showroom new. That way any issues with the boat will be worked out before you get it. A lot of new boats have issues. Crazy strange little things can be wrong with new boats. No one talks about lemon boats but they are out there. Let the promo guys work it out. When you buy a promo, you also save a fist of cash and help your local tournament scene.

 

2) Take the time to really ski behind it before you finalize the deal .

 

Example: It shocked me when I found out that my wife HATES the wake behind brand X. If I had purchased this one beautiful boat I would have been in a LOT of trouble. I like to ski behind that boat. It drives great. The boat I am thinking of is not a bad example of that brand, my wife just does not like the wakes (she is a little crazy).

 

Not every boat from the same factory is the same. There are clearly good and bad boats. It happens. There is a newish brand Z that I ski behind sometimes and it sucks. It just feels like heck to ski behind it. My PB is behind another example of the same brand.

 

Most boats from the 4 big factories are pretty darn good. The only way you will know it is ski it and drive it. Make your wife or kid or husband or uncle ski and drive it.

 

[nski]

@swc5150 great question/point on kids driving. Yes they do and ditto on the "bobble head". Boat only would be used early am on public lake and on private course lake so no "boaty water".

 

So, follow through question for you 200 guys: Comparing 5.7L 200 422 prop with 6L 200, does the 422 prop make the 5.7 equivalant to the 409 in terms of RPM's, fuel usage, and holeshot?

[nski]

@horton - appreciate the detailed comments/advice, bias notwithstanding. I'm not from FL so the difficulty lies in flying/driving all over the country to test individual boats, especially dragging kids along. Necessary evil perhaps.

[eleeski]

@nski‌ Buy a boat you want. The kids will adapt.

 

Tricks are for kids. Buy a boat for the trick wake. I have zero recommendations for the new boats. Keep the 196 for a while and hope they improve the wakes. They will probably wakeboard and you'll need a special boat then.

 

Eric

[Kelvin]

"So, follow through question for you 200 guys: Comparing 5.7L 200 422 prop with 6L 200, does the 422 prop make the 5.7 equivalant to the 409 in terms of RPM's, fuel usage, and holeshot? "

 

The 5.7L needs the slightly lower pitch (15 vs 15.5) of the 654 to have a similar pull and holeshot of the 6L 409 equipped with the 668 (also a 15.5 pitch, but with more cup than the 422).

 

[I5boi]

The 200 and PS have nice back seats or benches for those who like to do an evening cruise with family or friends.

 

The CP looks like you are sitting on the floor with a patio cushion. Does anyone like the CP back seats/cushions?

 

Off the subject and not applicable to the hardcore course skiers but a concern for some

[ForrestGump]

The CarbonPro is a PB machine.

[Horton]

@I5boi the back of the boat is low to start with. I am sure the back seats are comfortable but honestly the Carbon Pro is a ski tug not a day cruiser.

[swc5150]

The Carbon won't drain your bank account either:)

[RichardDoane]

@nski - don't believe @horton and his CP sales pitch, it's not nearly the equivalent of a new Prostar

[Horton]

@richarddoane‌ do you really want to go down this path?

[slow]

I thought this thread was comparing the prostar to the 200.

[swc5150]

@nski‌

We're running the 343 with the standard 654 prop (2012 boat). Revs are much higher than you experience in your 196; about 4,400 at 34. It uses noticeably more fuel on a heavy ski day. I believe there's another prop that'll reduce revs and improve gas mileage, but I'll leave that topic to the experts, like Seal. We put a 422 on it one day, and the performance was reduced (and yes, the prop was brand new).

 

Being that you're a current CC owner, my guess is you'll prefer the 200 to the MC, as it'll simply feel more like you're used to. The same could probably be said for MC owners liking the new PS. They all ski great, so I think it's coming down to preference of other aspects at this point...like soft ride, engine brand, look of the boat, whatever tickles your fancy.

[The_MS]

If I am a judge and sitting in the boat for 15-20 skiers, I want the new MC. The CP has a nice passenger seat but the 200 is like a park bench.

I used to love the 5.7 on the 200 but the past 2 years CC has made the 6L feel much better. The wakes and pull of the 6L feel softer.

If you sit in the back of any of the boats you will get wet. If you sit in the bow while operating, you will get very wet. I realize that sitting up in the bow is very comfortable and there is tons of space but its a waste of money.

[oldjeep]

@MS - out of curiosity where does the Malibu fit into that comfort level? I've only been in a 2012 Prostar, but thought that the Malibu seats were more comfortable - although I think I like the MC material better.

 

As for the open bow, getting wet isn't all that bad if you are out for a pleasure cruise on a nice day. I wouldn't ever let anyone sit up there with the boat in the course, but it is something that is really needed in a boat you are using for more than a tug.

[The_MS]

I would put the TKI right there with the CP for passenger seat comfort and it skis lights out.

[RichardDoane]

@horton - I'm not CP bashing, and no disrespect to your love of the CP, and sorry to derail the thread of the 200 vs Prostar wake for kids, but my point is that the CP has very few innovations when compared to the new Prostar

[Horton]

@richarddoane‌ I love you man so I am keeping my sarcastic reply to me self.

[Ghibli]

@swc5150

 

Might want to check your prop. Shouldn't be getting anywhere near 4400 with a 654. That's an incredible amount of slip. Maybe you normally pull Refrigerator Perry through 41...

[swc5150]

You're right, it's an 1868. I have 654 stuck in my head, because I guess that's what we should switch to in order to lower the revs.

[RAWSki]

The CP rear seats ARE like two large patio cushions, with bases actually, so yes not nice for cozy evening cruises but I like them for ease of use and removal. All the boats are so darn good now, I love the CP yet wouldn't turn down the the other three, BUT not willing to give up another $25K for them! (Also not sure MC is the only one with innovations but they do have a few very slick ones)

 

Back to the point of the post, from all reports the MC has stellar lower speed 'learning' wakes. (As does the CP) but the SN isn't far behind, the Malibu just a bit behind the other three but more room and storage for the family. Good luck in your quest. (Maybe choose the one the wife and kids like best! haha)

[Drago]

Your 196 is the best wake for kids. The new MC and SN 200 are both awesome. My son skied the MC early in the year, the promo owner asked what he thought of the wake." I didn't notice ", was his answer

[BrennanKMN]

Personally, I think any boat mid 2000's and newer would be just fine. Minus the 197, that wake was sub par at 22 off - otherwise it was a great boat.

 

Regardless, my humble opinion is, I don't think you should be buying boats because of the wake. If you need a wake from a particular boat to ski your best you are doing something wrong. The boat wake doesn't make the skier, the skier makes the skier.

 

Now I do understand that some boats might be better for new skiers, but honestly the differences between them are so marginal it doesn't really matter.