Mens World Record 3@43 possible?

[ToddL]

@ozski - using your thought, I guess once some LFF skier runs a full 3 balls at -43, then the best RFF skiers will have the advantage at the next set of WR's around 4-ball...

[Chef23]

Anyone know if 43 has been run in practice?

[aupatking]

@Stevie Boy I didn't want to "like" your comment, but it's true. At the Malibu Cup, day 1, Nate ran 41 in fantastic conditions. Everyone started talking. "He won't try for it behind a Malibu". People were saying CP might try, as long as Chad is driving. Kinda sucks, but I get it. No matter the level, there's a game to be played.

I think CP wants his record back so bad he'd do it behind a disaster raft.

[klindy]

@aupatking sorry to disagree with you but it's a reality not just a game to be played. Even in our small obscure sport at that level it's a business. Perhaps I should say ESPECIALLY in our small sport compared to other professional sports.

 

Imagine Lebron James strapping on a pair of Reeboks and a Chicago Bulls jersey and stepping up to the foul line to make the winning shot during an important game. Only later to tell his teammates (and sponsors!!) that "we did our best".

 

Frankly athletes and sponsors can't afford (literally) to "test" brand recognition. Imagine the marketing headlines, pictures, etc. Literally free asvertizing for a competing company of your sponsor.

 

As the old adage says, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

So, what's can we do to improve? Perhaps a good start is to recognize that there IS a distinction between an amateur and a professional. Fundementally the needs of a pro skier are different from mine and other armateur athletes. Why be forced to use the same boat for the entire OM or OW division?

 

Obviously there are limits to what a tournament director can do and the rules regarding course dimensions and boat speeds, etc should be the same but having some flexibility to "cater" to a different set of needs seems reasonable.

[aupatking]

@klindy, that's actually exactly what I meant. It's a business and the best way to promote "their" product is to win(set a record) behind it.

These guys have to ski behind the boat pulling the competition, theirs or otherwise, and choosing not to shoot for a record is a decision that makes perfect business sense. It just sucks for them, to lose that opportunity to go after it, and for spectators watching. I should have said "it's the nature of the business" I suppose.

 

[ToddL]

Everyone has good and no so good days. WR happen when the weather is best, the water is best, the site is best, the skier is having a "on" day, the driver is best, the boat is their sponsor... What does suck is when everything is aligned for a skier who is really "on" that day, except for the boat...

 

Maybe @klindy is on to something about Open divisions and skier boat preference. Why not!?!? If the boat mfg reps want a WR behind their boat by their team skiers, then they will likely support to LOC by ensuring that their boat is present, right?

[MattP]

@ToddL Skiers usually get around this rule buy skiing in their respective age division, OM or IM. A good chance that the chief driver can get their sponsors boat to pull each of those divisions during the day between each round. It's the reason you see pro's with scores in their age division usually.

[aupatking]

Should the boat be considered the skiers "equipment"? The rules don't make everyone ski on the same ski. That would be interesting to see, not even a possibility, but interesting.

The truth is, there would be no point in a boat company sponsoring an event, if half or more was pulled by competitors boats.

Back to the point of the discussion, Nate will knock down 3 this October or November.

[klindy]

@MattP I agree there are ways around the situation to make it work most of the time. My point is why have to jump thru all those hoops. The currently rules make it hard to accommodate these "needs" without silly technicalities.

 

That said I have a hard time with a record set in OM automatically being the record in M1 (or M2 or whatever). The way our current NOPS system works that changes the curve for everyone in that age division even though the record was set in Open.

 

Anyway, all these issues need to get bundled up with the Open/Masters Overall issue and either resolved or at least evolve from where we are today. I plan to tackle what we can in the Skiers Qualification Committee this fall/winter.

[jhughes]

Didn't CP ski a record (1.5@43) behind the RLXi in 2005 while being sponsored by Nautique? As an aside that was pre-ZO, pre-SG!

[MattP]

@klindy glad to hear you are on board with improving the current Open system.

[Andre]

@jhughes

Don't know if it was behind a Malibu.

I seems to remember a WS magazine back cover add by MC claiming that this skier had to go back skiing behind his other brand boat after setting the record behind a MC...

As usual,i'm probably wrong! :)

 

Edit:Maybe it was while MC stopped advertising the back cover and it was the other way around.

Anyone knows for sure ?

[Ilivetoski]

@jhughes i can't swear to it but I'm pretty sure he was sponsored by Malibu at that time.

[Edbrazil]

Tricky Towline Trivia: When was the 9.75m loop first used in a tournament?

 

Answer: Not in 1997, when Jeff Rodgers ran the first 41/10.25m, and 1 @ 9.75.

 

But, in 1977 at the Nationals in Berkeley. I was there as a driver.

 

Huh? Not in the main event: Open Men, but in the extensive tie runoffs. The tournament

towline went only to 38/11.25. At that time, when another tie happens in a runoff, the

starting loop is shortened by one. Also, at that time, there were "Add Buoys", where if you

missed on the way out, but were still skiing, you were shortened up and taken back for adds.

 

It was a bit humorous to see the Technical Controller come jogging down to the starting dock

3 times with a line segment and fid, to add 10.75, 10.25, and finally 9.75 as ties kept happening.

The final final was 2 skiers who were tied somewhere down the placings, not for first. Boat

took them up at 10.25 and then back at 9.75. Both scoring 0 + 0. Officials finally declared

the placement a tie. The whole process of resolving ties may have taken longer than the

original Open Men event.

[bdougherty]

@Edbrazil really love reading your posts! Keep the history coming!!

[brettmainer]

Mateo Vargas needs to bring Nationals back to Berkeley. Airport convenient and good hospitals close by for the inevitable jump crashes in the 20mph crosswind. Plus, after everybody's fin set screws rust in place from the saltwater, we won't have to worry about fin adjustments.

[PhilSymo]

Interestingly, on the point of Boat mfgs, and i know this wont sit well with some, but hear me out, recently in wakeboarding Harley Clifford ran a PERFECT score (100) at the US masters I belive, which was sponsored by Nautique, the "record" was behind a Nautique.... but Harley is a Mastercraft Sponsored athelete....

 

two things here:

 

1. Did he "lower" his performance because it was a different boat? I don't think so...

2. Did the Sponsor maybe ask for his score to be bumped up to 100 to do some of that advertising stuff.... Maybe...

 

I am not saying he CLEARLY didn't win btw, he was easily the best on the day but 100... smelt fishy at the time....

 

relating to Waterskiing... all the pro men want to win, fact, do i think which boat pulls them has a difference to them changing their performance... no. BUT do i think if you TRAIN behind a boat, and get USED to it OBVIOUSLY it will help your scores. Same as if Freddie Winter went back on to a Goode 1XT, he hasnt skied on it for a year, but would his scores drop, yes a little but not MASSIVE amounts... its all what you get used to. Skis, bindings, ropes, boats and drivers.

[ALPJr]

@Edbrazil did you pull David Spencer the Men 1 overall champ in the '77 nat's?

[Chad_Scott]

None of them are going to do it behind a competitors boat period. Plain and simple each of the skiers capable of a world record have huge monetary incentives to do it behind their sponsored boat. Doing it behind a competitors boat is bad business for these skiers. However, for the Malibu Open, which is not a R tournament (Class L). There will be a $10,000 world record (Score) bonus for the skier. Since the score will never be approved as a world record, All of the skiers have a cash incentive (thanks to Tony Drake) to surpass the current world record. It should not affect their current deal. Boat path will have to be approved by the TC Committee to make sure it is legit. But this will not affect monetary incentives each of the skiers have with their respective boat companies. Hopefully will add a twist to the Malibu Open. Nate has gotten to 2 ball for the past two years in Milwaukee and the way CP, Freddie and Will are skiing it could be exciting to watch.

[Edbrazil]

To: @ALPJr I pulled M1 jump, so I would have pulled Dave. Was also Carl Roberge's last year in

Jr. Boys, and I pulled that. His dad wanted a little "extra" from the boat, thinking record. I also

pulled Open Women SL. Deena got a reride for .01 fast at the 3rd buoy; did better on the RR.

Total: 2 RR's and .04 sec out for the tournament, back in the days of stopwatch hand timing.

[Nando]

Edbrazil- do you recall who all was involved in that '77 runoff?

[ALPJr]

That's awesome driving @Edbrazil !!!

[mrpreuss]

Another year..... I wish I could see it differently

[Edbrazil]

I do not remember the people involved in the 1977 runoff in Open Men, but the really

deep shortline stuff did not involve first place. From my viewpoint, running off for places

other than 1st is a waste of time. OK, maybe got to cough up some more medals. Big

deal. Note: Kris LaP won that SL event.

[ISP6ball]

Resurrecting an old thread from 2014....

 

Just curious if people's opinions have changed on if and when they think a new record will happen. Thoughts?

[Than_Bogan]

Thoughts haven't changed at all. 3@9.75 is still clearly possible, but the gap between 10.25 and 9.75 is far more difficult than the other gaps. Either add a 10m line or go all radical @drew on this sport's ass and make the course wider.

[slow]

Surprised to see who started this thread

[lpskier]

Given that Chad Scott drove both current world records (I believe), his absence is a wild card in the “progressing the world record” mix.

[lhoover]

OK, Than, I'll bite. And I've read it before, perhaps written by you, but how in the ever loving world does adding width to the course make it easier? Or am I misunderstanding you? Laymans, terms, please.

[ALPJr]

3 will happen.

[ALPJr]

Great thread @ISP6ball

[bojans]

How does the introduction of Surepath impact the likelihood/timing of the record being increased?

[LeonL]

Lot's of prediction from back early in this thread (2014) that haven't come to pass.

[lpskier]

@bojans I don’t think Sure Path will effect the ability to set future records. While it gives you instant feedback about where you are at any given moment in the course, those same determinations have been made previously, albeit not instantly, by video review. It is my understanding that both current world records (driven by Chad) had cumulative deviations of 15, well below the max of 49.

 

While SP will certainly help most drivers, the elite group who are capable of driving records are unlikely to change much if anything about their driving as a consequence of SP’s feedback. At their level, it’s more art than science and they will have little difficulty staying in the middle one end to the other. It’s how you stay in the middle that counts.

[ALPJr]

The question is who will break through? There are so many talented young skiers.

[The_MS]

Lots of 3@41ers

[ALPJr]

I know, practice doesn’t count…https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2cBOS76anFjxRaXlCcmNQtLHWst92-PAdu1uZDXbQFzAJQgxYH4nF-AJ0&v=AFWApiaZ054&feature=youtu.be

[ScottScott]

Remember Nate did run 3 at 43 4 or 5 years ago at swiss, but the boat path wasn't approved. I guess if the deviation helped him, we could say he didn't run it (and technically I he didn't,) but it certainly shows it can be done. Main reason for the boat path was that it was so late, visibility was tough....also driven by Chad Scott

[aupatking]

I still don’t get the “10 meter” or 42 off argument. It effects 1 skier per tournament, typically. As far as the world record, well, there’s already 2.5 @-43, so there’s no point there either. How many guys have tied in a tournament with a score at 9.75?

[lpskier]

As much as I admire Freddie Winter’s skiing, it’s hard to imagine anyone other than Nate breaking the record right now. On the Women’s side it’s a toss up: it could be Regina, Regina or perhaps Regina. No one else is close.

[Horton]

Think she could get 4 1/2?

[darinmontgomery]

Regina will run 41. She’s had a couple opportunities and Chad was not driving. Unfortunately, they were not behind a Malibu….

[darinmontgomery]

I do believe the window is closing for a full 43 pass. The boats continue to get stronger and SurePath will be developed into auto steering. Unless the SurePath Auto Steer has boat path settings similar to Zero Off letters and numbers, running 43 with no boat path deviation is highly unlikely, IMHO.

[6balls]

@darinmontgomery has she run it in practice? If not my guess is it doesn't fall in a tourney--as fanastic as she is. Maybe she does run it in practice...dunno.

My guess is we see a hold right not on the mens record for some time. Same thing is anyone rounding 3@43 with some regularity in practice? If not tough to pull it off at a tourney.

[darinmontgomery]

@6balls Yes and Yes

[swbca]

@TallSkinnyGuy Changing the dimensions of the course would knock down overall participation for quite a while. 38 mph for Open Men would give them something to work on for a long time. Remember the world tournament where they incremented speed up to 40 mph ? Jimmy Jackson wasn't the best slalom skier at the time but he did well at 40mph . (was it the world tournament ? Whatever the tournament I was watching it on a color TV)

[ral]

I personally do not see what is the big issue.

 

Worried about the world record stalling? Look at the high jump, latest was in 1993. Almost 30 years ago.