Zero off question.

[mbabiash]

Why does my zero off beep right at the pucks going in one direction and beep at the bow of the boat going opposite direction?

My course is surveyed in so it should be perfect.

Matt

 

[Horton]

You might need to re-map

[mbabiash]

Do I need to re map going in both directions?

[ForrestGump]

It's going to beep based on where you pushed the enter button for each end's entrance gate. You only map one direction, but both gates at the same spot in relation to the boat.

[Gloersen]

map in one direction only, be sure to use the same reference point (puck) for entrance/exit gates

[J3]

Mine does the same thing Matt. I've re-mapped it at least a dozen times (in both directions), swapped the puck plugs, and I don’t have any error codes showing up. Our course was surveyed and its perfect. I’ve never been able to get a definitive answer to your question.

[Jody_Seal]

To bad Zero Off has really poor customer service or we could call and ask them! I can only imagine the answer they would give if one could get a human on the phone!

[mbabiash]

I'm always careful to press button at the pucks on both ends. @J3 Glad to hear someone else's does the same thing. I don't think it's a problem.

My times are always good both ways (if that really means anything) but just curious.

 

 

[MISkier]

You could be experiencing normal variation in positional accuracy, perhaps affected by better WAAS signal at one end of your course versus the other. GPS systems use WAAS to help improve positional accuracy over pure satellite signal. Remember, the system is really only positionally accurate to with 10 feet or so. Don't use it to survey your course.

 

Speed accuracy with GPS is something like 99.68% accurate.

[J3]

Yeah, I gave up on trying to figure it out, but it still drives me a little nutty because my boat is the only boat on our lake that does it.

[The_MS]

Map it starting at the other end and see what happens.

[J3]

Mine beeps at the pucks one way and behind the motor box the other. If I reverse how I map the course, it reverses where the beeps occur.

[Gloersen]

it maybe worth the effort to delete all the mapped courses and start over

[J3]

yep, did that. The only course in the memory is the one we're skiing on.

[Gloersen]

if recalled correctly, pretty sure that ZO only uses the entrance gate mapping and then virtually determines where the exit gates should be. Pressing the button at the end gate just stores the course mapping.

 

This explains why your discrepancy is reversed when mapping from the opposite end.

 

If the discrepancy is consistent as described, surveyed or not, one would have to seriously question if the gates are truly 259 meters apart.

[9400]

When you say the course is surveyed, does that mean it was surveyed after the course was set up to be skied (such as a survey for record capability tournament)? Or does that mean you had someone who said they could lay it out for you put the anchors in place? I've checked a few that said they were "surveyed in" that were not even what I would consider close to accurate.

 

Remapping was the first thing I thought of though.

[J3]

yes, it was surveyed by a rated technical controller and found to be record capable. His comment was, "this is one of the most accurate courses I've ever surveyed". As I mentioned before, my boat is the only one out of 5 or 6 that does this. my previous boat was mapped once and was perfect until I sold it 3 years later. crazy, I know! I've been racking my brain for 2 years trying to figure it out.

[LeonL]

The initial "enter button push" sets the entrance gates from that end. The second entry sets the entrance gates from the other end not just stores it. Exit gates are virtual, as ZO calculates 259 M from the entrance. It may be that your course is off. I'm confused about @J3 and his being the only boat on the lake that does it.

[mbabiash]

My course was surveyed by a guy that has surveyed for many record capable tournaments.

It's dead on. When @J3 says that his previous boat and several other boats do not do this. I would presume that his course is accurate.

[thompjs]

I surveyed it. It is correct.

[skiep]

I check the boat every time i ski. 2 out of 3 times I have to remap. Some people say it doesn't matter, but jody seal told me it did. So I check every time.

[MISkier]

If it's possible, see if you can swap pucks with somebody whose boat doesn't have the issue.

[LeonL]

The only real problem you may experience by having the beep occur at a significantly different place is if you're using the + setting. Gate speed is higher and the boat doesn't know to slow down until the beep, where ever that may occur in relation to the actual gate.

[thager]

I have a floating course and experienced the same thing. I had more than one map for my course saved. I deleted all previous maps then remapped. I have had no problems since. I think mine was selecting the first course it encountered at each end. Floating courses move slightly as water level changes.

[SQuartly]

It's not your course...Ours does the exact same thing (very annoying). What boat are you running? I know the speeds are ok but what concerns me is if the course isn't mapped quite right is the boat giving the skier gas in the right place?

[Gloersen]

If the system beeps at the appropriate place at each entry gate and the "error" only occurs at the exit gate, the skier pull should be fine. The system sets a speed 0.8% or 1.6% (R vs R+) above baseline until making the entrance gates. After that any throttle application is based on skier input (other than wind, current, etc.). If the system beeps at the wrong place (significantly) upon entering the gates this possibly could affect the skier's feel at the gates.

 

Deleting all courses and re-mapping with a constant boat speed through the course (if not done, it sounds like most have already) worth a try again. After that maybe try ZO with the auto select course feature off.

[SQuartly]

Thanks Gloerson, I've actually already tried both of those but with no prevail. Like I said the times are fine and the boat feels ok in the course so I'm not worrying too much. However it would be nice to find out what's going on as it seems only a handful of people are getting the same thing happen.

[PJ]

now we know how it gets a 95 every time. it just counts up and then beeps :tongue:

[Chuck_Dickey]

Make sure before you map that you see a Diff number like, Diff 8. ZO uses sky and land base GPS references which helps pinpoint location more precisely. Satellites only will get you up to a 3 meter variance, combo of sky and fixed land based get you a 1 meter variance or better

[block]

This is most likely a puck issue. Try switching your pucks, if that does not work try what MISkier said, switch pucks with a friend. This can be a HUGE issue in the jumping event. The driver should always check where the beep is when timing the boat.

 

[SQuartly]

Thanks again for the help. But unfortunately I have tried both of those. Even though no error codes were showing I switched the pucks round because apparantly they only use on puck at a time and thought It could just be a faulty puc when that didn't work I then replaced one with a brand new one. Still no joy.

[Phil]

SQuartly send me an email or private message

[skinut]

My 200 has the same problem. Like the OP says it doesn't affect the skier but it sure is annoying. I have talk to the folks at ZO and they said they'd send me a new puck to test but since it doesn't seem to affect the skier I really am not motivated to replace the pucks.

[eleeski]

You guys are too anal. There might be some error in the beep timing but is anyone complaining about the feel?

 

I've skied a couple sets completely unmapped. Felt exactly like a properly mapped setup.

 

GPS accuracy is not that good. The differential between gates will have the same error so times and feel will be good even if the beep marking the location of the gates is off. The ZO response to the pull in for the gates should overwhelm any * setting couple meter location error.

 

Go set your fin to .001 instead of stressing over this (insert smiley face).

 

Eric

[jimski]

Our 2011 200 beeps on the ball one way and about 3 feet away the other way good enough for me, GPS is accurate within about three feet I'm told

@eleeski

We have a floating course and a few weeks ago it moved about 20 feet to the north in a storm we also had a bunch of slack in it due to the water fluctuation in the winter

My first pass through the gates into one ball I knew something was wrong at the end of the pass my son said the zero off was beeping in the middle of the gate balls

Not that I know all that much but I could feel the difference

[LeonL]

@jimski, are you using + setting? If not, I can't see how the pull would feel different. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ZO pull,is the same if you don't even map it. I do know it will pull 16.95 without mapping because I can use an old magnet timer, get no times on ZO due to no map and show 16.95 on the external timer.

[jimski]

@LeonL no + setting, from what I have been told and can tell my self ( I'm no expert ) ZO gives you three different pulls into and around the ball. If the course isn't mapped into ZO It doesn't know where to give you the pull you want, If not mapped It wont know where the course starts and ends If the course moves it will pull you where the course was originally mapped and not where it actually is. The time should be the same from end to end at 34.2 MPH mapped or not is this correct

[MISkier]

ZO does not care where the individual buoys are. It does not adjust the pull for any specific buoy locations. It only really cares where the entrance gates are. It will pull you at a speed slightly higher than the correct speed just before the gate and then settles in to the proper speed afterward. In the course, it only reacts to you, the wind, and any other factors affecting boat speed.

[DUSkier]

@jimski ZO will only react to the load on the boat (not where it is in the course*)which then "gasses" as per the letter i.e. A slow on fast off B Mid on Mid off and C Fast on slow off.

I would suggest the difference you felt was your course being out of tolerance due to moving, both anchors would not have moved the same amount!

*I have not used the plus setting but it WILL require the course mapped to know where the gate is

[skierjp]

Andy Mapple told me a few years ago that he rarely maps his boats. This was near the time when ZO came out with the plus setting.

[LeonL]

ZO reacts due to accelerometer, no matter where it feels the load change.

[GOODESkier]

I am not buying this one, maybe I have it all wrong........

 

Mapping provides start and end locations ONLY (gates) for the TIMING piece of what we call a pass. If you don't map it, there is no magic place that the boat starts the timing of the pass and no place it ends. Boat and ZO don't care where any of the balls are regardless of any mapping, they only want to make it from start to finish in 16.95 seconds at 34.2 MPH when mapped. Un mapped, the boat is purely trying to hold a constant speed. That constant speed is a percentage above the 34.2 based on (+) or not like it was "outside the course approaching the gates.

 

Now, if the boat is not mapped, it is ONLY trying to go a specific speed. Meaning, when a skier cuts and provides load on the boat (slowing of the speed) if you are a large guy that hammers a turn and drags the boat down in speed, the boat is ONLY trying to get back to speed, NOT make up for the lost TIME in the course because there is no start/end to it's thinking.

 

Skiing a non-mapped boat in my mind should be way more forgiving and easier in some regards. While it might be a few tenths of a mile per hour faster, it will not punish you for bug hits. Your time (if calculated) could be 17.01 and your mistakes could be less detrimental to your pass, unlike a properly mapped boat.

[FracBurner]

Maybe Enovation Controls could clear everything up...fairly certain they know. But the speculation is entertaining...