Masters Mens Slalom Final Drama

[matthewbrown]

@horton yes thank you thank you

 

[matthewbrown]

@Jody_Seal sorry didn't mean to pound the subject into submission. However, something that has not been discussed at all was the complete difference in skiing conditions between when Freddy skied and when Nate skied. The wind appeared to have died down considerably for Nate. I'm wondering that if Freddy would of had the same conditions as Nate, would he even of had an issue at 39? Or who knows, maybe he would of relaxed and fallen early, nature of the sport.

[DmaxJC_ski]

So what is the possibility of a computer generated / laser type scoring system integrated in the future? Go pros in the buoys or something? Or do you think it would ever get to that point? Not that I think it's necessary but is this a situation that could start that discussion?

[Kelvin]

No, no, no - while it may be theoretically possible, it would be impossible to keep it up and running for a complete tournament without delays that take away from the sport.

[ToddL]

no. We do not need any more highly complex, expensive technology in our sport. The trickle down effect will cause Class C tournaments require all the same stuff. No, no, no.

[ToddL]

Can we just make the rule: 1 review, completed within 2 minutes, done.

[Jody_Seal]

@OB head Buoy boy! Chief rope stretcher! Water level policeman! G-boat handler! and safety / media boat admiral..I have many more titles and jobs and yea I was right there when the first call was made watching the video along with all the other senior judges! Oh yea! I drove in the parade!

 

My take on it and keep in mind I was for many years a baseball umpire as well as current senior AWSA judge. sooo in base ball tie goes to the runner and from my view it was inconclusive in both the live view ( as I was at a higher vantage point then the two course judges) and the video.

 

But my call does not count ( no I was not appointed to look at the video as I had a wakeboard event to switch over too) and the call on the field stands, period end of story. Can we move on now?

 

4 hour edit is cool!

 

Getting kinda worked up there arn't ya (southern grammar) George? I also speak Canadian ! EH?

If you are so adamant about your point get in contact with the chief judge and ask him. He can be reached through the AWSA officials list. I am sure he will be very polite in his response.

 

As the man said I just work there and only clean up the place when it is over!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[schroed]

It seems to me that the problem is that the skiers can put up money and put calls into a review process. It sounds like both Freddy and Nate did this and that's what led to the multiple changes in score. Let's eliminate that rule. That would still allow a video review under the current rules in the case of disagreement by the judges. I would hope that a video review would be a quick process so that the skier isn't sitting in the water for a long time. Perhaps we could write a rule such that there's a time limit on the review process and after that, the call is final. I'm just talking slalom rules here, so let's not bring tricks into this and complicate everything. In slalom there really isn't that much to review for every pass.

 

Further, I like the idea that, as @jody_seal stated, "tie goes to the runner". I like this idea even more for entrance gates. If a judge can't tell, then the skier gets the gates or buoy. As a judge, I never take gates or buoys away unless I can clearly see that the skier did not go through the gates or around a buoy. I know some people won't agree, but I think we should let the skiers ski and not take things away from them that are so close it raises some big long debate on BOS.

[Jody_Seal]

The rematch at Swiss!

 

[Horton]

I think we can all agree that we wish we knew if Fred rounded 6 ball or not. The rest is just the show. Since Nate has the title I guess I hope Fred did not get around it. That way his placement is correct.

 

On the other hand this has been AWESOME for web traffic. Nautique has never done more to drive traffic to a site sponsored by Centurion. ( @Jody_Seal Love you man)

[aupatking]

The "too much time in the water" argument is terrible reasoning. Would you lose your $#!+ if your football team got their touchdown called back, 5 plays after a call they missed. They take the time they are allowed, and only then can they move on.

If they hadn't let Freddy run his 3 @ 41, there wouldn't be this debate. 2 minute review, 2 minute review for challenge. You tell me what the time limit is AWSA or IWWF, but if the next snap is taken, the last play is history.

Once Freddy went through the gates @ -41, -39 should have been over.

[Bulldog]

As stated before... All press is good press and web traffic apparently!!

[Tyler_R]

@Horton admit it you get Nautique to do this every so often so that web traffic spikes and you can increase ad prices.

[Stevie Boy]

oooo, just felt that Ricochet, whistle past my head.

[Stevie Boy]

Have to say Nobody wins here, Should Nate have the Title or Should Freddie have had the Title, like Freddie said, both skiers would prefer a definitive outcome.

 

Just out of interest, other events call all of the officials together and the Chief Honcho, runs through scenarios and what if,s and makes it clear how he wants it to be handled prior to the event proceeding, the Chief Honcho then relays that information to all the Competitors, so everybody is clear and knows where it,s at.

 

Does this happen at Major Water Skiing Events ? or is it just down to the rule book, which by the way is written in Black and White.

 

I am with the comment above, which states the moment Freddie was allowed to proceed with his 41 off any score/decision should stand unless it is 100% clear he did not score 6 ball when Nate protested.

[9400]

One of those turn buoys from the 80s would have decided this on the spot. (sorry to anyone injured by a giant turn buoy, but it looked like time for a little humor...my apologies if someone finds this inappropriate)

[ntx]

@aupatking as a skier, sitting in the water for a extended time to get the call right, is not the answer either. My guess is that no skier would want to sit for several minutes in bindings that my or may not be cramping his feet before he takes a gate at his next pass. Especially at 41. Usually in situations similar to that, the boat judge will explain to the skier that there is a question about the call and give the skier the option to continue "at risk" I have no clue if this was done or not in this case. In any case, it sounds like Nate was told before his set started that 5 at 39 was the score to beat.

[Orlando76]

I'm new to following tournament level skiing. Mainly due to the lack of coverage. Why was Nate last to ski? Was it bc he placed highest in qualifying?

[webbdawg99]

@Orlando76 Yes, he was the highest seed

[aupatking]

@Stevie Boy I wasn't meaning to take a shot at you on that, more the rule that allows the problem. @ntx I understand your point too, my reflex boot is awesome, performance wise, but sitting cramping, even if you are allowed to sit on the start dock, getting cold(performance wise, or literally) before running super short line isn't optimal. That's why it needs some thought, but a time limit and number of reviews as standard procedure for review, before the next run really has to be enacted. It hamstrings the skier, as he really can't see the review, to protest the ruling, but he ran the pass, he knows if he rounded the ball. Not to mention, they can't protest the judges decision.

It's not a pretty solution, but it is simple & final. If they still get it wrong, they still get it wrong, it will happen, but you don't have the entire credibility of the tournament in question. What if he had run -41, or God forbid, set s world record? Not gonna happen in slalom on Robin Lake, but you get my point.

[Skoot1123]

This is almost as comical as figure skating judging in the Olympics.....

[MarcusBrown]

Situation sucks.

 

@matthewbrown for prez indeed

 

FW and Nate are class acts.

 

@9400 is almost spot on.... Instead of making buoys safer by making them easier to run over, how about we change the effing turn markers into something that is safer than anything so far, AND easier to judge??!!!

 

Snow ski racing has evolved.

 

Why is our $hit still round and only 10cm tall??!

 

 

[Horton]

@MarcusBrown for Secretary of Balls

[gjohnson]

@MarcusBrown Amen brother! The level of skiing has surpassed the rule book. Two of the last three masters mens slalom titles have been decided after the slalom event has concluded. By that I mean, if your watching the webcast, the person you think is the winner isn't. Only later through emails/tweets is the real winner discovered.

[lpskier]

This may already have been suggested, and it does involve a little expense, but a GoPro on the ski aimed in the correct direction would probably provide conclusive evidence of whether the skier went around, missed, grazed or displaced the turn ball.

[Horton]

@lpskier maybe. On second thought more technology is a bad idea

[RAWSki]

If you are putting cameras somewhere why not put them underwater a few feet directly below the ball, that would give the best view of a ski either going around, over, or inside the ball.

[jipster43]

I'm a huge fan of calls being made in the moment and in real time. No cameras. Multiple judges. Majority rules. On with the show! It may not be as accurate, but it's human and it's consistent. Disagree with the judges? Get 'em next time, 'cause there ain't no protestin' the final decision!

 

This isn't brain surgery it's entertainment. A little imprecision just adds to the spectacle. In the end I think this adds more to a pro's bottom line than long drawn out reviews that ultimately eliminate very little controversy.

 

Disclaimer: I'm also against computers/robotics over human labor - in most cases.

[liquid d]

Dallas still should have one...Dez made that catch! c'mon ! you friggin know it was it was it catch! he was reaching for the goal line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liquid d]

make the call , and live with it....I'll be over it next september.