How to practice technique?

[hemlock]

I'm working on getting into 32 off. 15' and 22' are easy passes.

28' is hit and miss.

I know my main problem is body alignment, stack, and I'm working on that.

I ski at 34mph.

 

Where do I practice so that 28' off becomes my easy pass, and so

I can fix my body alignment?

Run at 22' and 28' off at slower speeds? at 34mph?

...or perhaps I go back to 15' off and run at 30mph?

 

 

[Wish]

Drill.. At 28 off, attempt to ride the ski all the way down one side of the course leaning away from the boat while staying outside that buoy line. Not easy. If your stack is good you will get wider and higher up on the boat. If you loose the stack you will drift back. Find that perfect stack and hold. Feel what's going on and what is making it happen. Repeat on the other side.

 

Ski the course in reverse and try to feel what you have learned above. Without the distracting buoys you can start to feel how and when to get into that nice stack you learned.

 

Take video and post. I bet you're drifting in on your pull out at 28 and 32.

[ISP6ball]

@Wish, How far up the line can you practice that drill, maintaining a stacked posture, and still be able to stay outside the buoy line?

[hemlock]

@wish Thanks, I will try those drills, and see if I can dust of the camera for some vid.

 

[Wish]

28 is not easy. Never really tried beyond that. Would defeat the purpose of the drill. I still do the drill when I get into a rut or start to slide backwards.

[6balls]

Bear with me for a moment...this may sound non-conventional.

 

As you stand ready for your gate pull-out in stacked position with the handle low...begin your outward movement by bringing your handle down toward your right hip and simultaneously look back at the wake as you go out. Don't think about the mechanics of what this does just try it. Figure out the mechanics that made you so efficient later.

 

Now when you look up amazed and find yourself 6 feet wide of the 2,4,6 buoy line without even trying or loading, realize how little effort it takes to get wide at 28 off and apply this efficiency to your skiing. This shows that as long as you are in alignment (stack) you need not be really low to the water or pulling hard to get wide with efficiency.

 

Then think about the location of your handle. On your pull out you put it on your right hip...keep it there in your glide refusing to give up your width. When you start from wide and progressively lean in for your gate think about putting the handle after turn in low and posterior on your left hip. It won't actually be placed that much differently than usual but a little bit matters. I bet you are suddenly wide/early at 1 ball without effort and it will take a few sets to figure out what to do with that early width. Apply that same handle position to each lean.

 

We all have keys and these are a few suggestions that won't work for everyone. This doesn't address the turns but for me the turns take care of themselves if I stack well and am wide and early.

 

Try the handle low to right hip on gate pull out with a look back at the wake one time for me...no risk, right? If it it's an eye opener...try the rest. If I'm full of baloney on the gate pull out I'm sure there will be alternative advice offered that may be of more help. We are all after the same stuff it just depends on someone saying something that clicks for you and this has helped some of my ski buddies quite a bit.

[gregy]

@hemlock I go back and read this thread regularly.

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/9275/what-the-heck-is-the-deal-with-28/p1

[hemlock]

Going to try some of these drills and tips on the water tomorrow. Thanks.

 

One question I keep thinking about also is what do you "look at" when you turn in for the gate, are almost at the gate, and going through the gate?

I get it that once through the gate you should be focusing on ball 1, and I've been practicing looking down course as I finish my buoy turns. (The idea here is to look down course which forces my shoulders to square up more and get my hips in front of my shoulders)

 

But for the gate what to look at?

In the past, I've always looked at the gate, you know...to make sure I go through them, and I think that contributes to me bending over.

 

 

[supergadget]

@Hemlock. Great timing. You and I are in the exact same spot.

I have just started experimenting with -32. Ran a week of free skiing just so I could do a hundred plus turns at that length and get some experience. Tried it again today in the course and it's tricky! Basically barely got past the gates.

@Wish- thanks for the drill. I will do it. I did this drill while free skiing, I did not think of trying it in the course. I will go back into course with it.

[hemlock]

Got a chance to try some drills today. Will do more again this week.

@Wish

I really liked the drill of holding the stack and staying outside the buoy line at 28 off.

This to me will make a great warm up at the start of each day!

(normally, I would start at 15 off and then go to 22, I think now I'll run this drill twice(once per side) and then start my set at 22 off)

 

@6balls

I tried the tip you gave and found it useful.

You realize you don't have to "pull harder" to make it, just trust the stack and the position will get you there. I tried one pass today at 28 off and the first few buoys are easy... meaning I'm waiting for them, but still messed up the pass. That's okay though, I'm going to flip back and forth from 22 and 28 to practice my stack where I hope to lose the "bad" position less and less, set after set.

 

Here's a pass at 22 off.

As you can see, I'm still getting bent forward and will again try to

correct the position even more.

Feedback is most welcome!

 

[Horton]

@hemlock

Not bad at all. Can you put most of your weight on your front foot before you turn in for the gates and then turn in as slow as you dare?

 

Currently you are turning on the tail the ski and making more spray than speed.

 

Spray is cool but is means you have less control (ok that is a terrible explanation but trust me)

[Wish]

Can help think that through a bit. It's sounds weird but has worked with everyone I've tried it with and will get you to do what @Horton is wanting you to do. So, think of your ski in the glide as pointing to 12:00 on a clock. As you glide and stand very tall on the ski (this will put weight on front of ski) you need to put and feel your hips at 11:00 (little harder for a lefty but even more important). Hold that 11:00 with hips in the glide. When you are ready to turn in for the gates, move ONLY your hips to 1:00. Everything else will follow. You can adjust the speed of the move with your hips from 11:00-1:00 based on your liking but as John says, slower is better. But moving hip 11:00 to 1:00 allows you to control that speed by how fast you make the move to 1:00. This will change your timing ...so 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. You will start to feel the ski track straighter with little to no drift inward when hips are at 11:00 in glide. It will be a much more progressive and much more controlled gate shot when moving only hips to 1:00 (they will move past 1:00 but move to 1:00 initiates it). It will keep your ski infront of you and if your hip is the first and only movement to 1:00 it will keep you stacked. You will get more speed (less spray). You will get wider and earlier for 1 as you start to grasp it. The whole process will be more controlled. And all you have to do is focus on your hips and say "11:00" when coming up TALL into the glide and say "1:00" when your ready to turn in for the gates. Easy to do and remember.

 

You will need to get MUCH further up on the boat for 28 & 32. The above will keep the boat from sucking you in at the glide.

 

And hold that nice lean out of 1,3,5 longer. You're coming up before you hit the first wake and changing edges off the second wake...while the ski is in the air...boat has you and pulling you down course.

[6balls]

Taking the wake with your waist not your legs causing you to give up leverage early and then go up-course...works ok now but won't as you go shorter.

Whatever it takes to get your hips aligned in the stack whether that be thinking hips forward, chest up, handle low and posterior on the hip etc. Your upper body is in front of your ski off the wakes...watch vids of the best the ski gets out in front of them at that point. Tough to do I know but the game is won after the wakes...most of us can do pretty well from buoy to wake but as the rope gets shorter it's about management wake to ball.

Get wider on your pull out...your pull out is short as well.

[wtrskior]

nice skiing, you will be able to nail 28 with some small tweaks. Couple things to think about when you get up and stand on your ski; work on how you stand on the ski outside the course - 1/2 the time you are skiing, you aren't in the course, this is a good time to practice how you stand; before the pull out, during the glide and when you exit the gates at the end of the pass - this will build muscle memory:

 

a lot of this has been mentioned already but:

-stand tall with most of your weight on your front foot

-arms straight - they are an extension of the rope

-squeeze your butt cheeks to drive your hips forward over your front foot

Since we ride the ski with 1 foot behind the other, it is natural for 1 hip to be behind the other, which means your weight is back naturally - to counter this align your hips perpendicular to the ski, meaning, bring your back leg (hip) forward to align with your front hip like a T - this was huge for me to get into shortline and get a better stack, with weight up over the front foot, especially on the offside.

 

jodi fisher coaching hip alignment:

 

Also, the pull zone shortens but the intensity increases as the line gets shorter. This is very apparent at 22 vs 28 IMO. It appears you are loading a little early, which is causing the boat to throttle you out of position at the 2nd wake. Try to let the ski finish the turn a little bit more and delay your pull a fraction while maintaining your stack through the finish of the turn. This should set you up for a smoother wake crossing and transition to the next buoy. hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

[jhughes]

A wise man once told me that skiers getting into this skill level generally look to be on some spectrum of "defensive" behind the boat. Skiers that surpass this "hump" that is -28 and move beyond look to be on some spectrum of "offensive" behind the boat. Your video looks very "defensive". It's another way of thinking about what's already been stated here.

 

I'm in this same phase and getting to the next stage has required a lot of new thinking, discipline, and trust. It's quite an adventure.

[jayski]

@wtrskior there is some terrible advice on that video, I'm quite shocked

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@jayski I am glad you said that because I watched that Jodi Fisher video a few days ago and thought I must be misunderstanding because it sounded like he was coaching the skier to be more closed to the boat, which is the opposite of what I have heard before. I almost started a new thread titled "Can all coaches be trusted to give good advice?" With that said, are jayski and I both misunderstanding what Jodi Fisher is teaching in this video?

[wtrskior]

@jayski I've skied with Jodi a few times, he helped me immensely at getting my weight forward and having a progressive wake crossing; an issue that is paramount to most longer line skiers inability to progress. The video applies to the skiers in the water IMO, but overall what he's talking about is the same as everyone else in terms of proper alignment and body position.

 

Hips perpendicular to the ski is something I think about every set thanks to him. His analogy regarding the shoulders is also paramount to progressing; so many skiers ski "twisted", where their back shoulder, or the arm that will be releasing coming into the next buoy is getting pulled towards the boat causing a huge separation. There are a few ways to think about this, and if anything I'd say Jodi's chat in that video is likely for skiers a little less advanced than the OP. There is another, shorter video of him coaching the same guy where he talks about hip alignment.

 

 

[jayski]

@wtrskior separation @ transition is not cured by blocking at the finish of the turn and behind the boat...that whole movement he relays in the video is ridiculous

[Zman]

@OB In snow skiing we used to call that "screw the turn", keeping your hips forward.