KohenSports Custom Water Ski Boots and Hollow Body Ghost Plates

[Brewski]

I have been getting lots of requests for information on the new boots and plates so I thought I would shoot an update. The plates are 7050 Aircraft Aluminum or G10X which is the same as G10 but has Carbon Fiber content along with the S glass. The plates take 3 hrs to machine at the machine shop so I am going to have to outsource them ASAP. I now have casting kits with full instructions ready to go, so skiers can cast each others feet at home. I have at least 10 sets of plates ready so I can start boots as soon as the orders get here. Price is coming down now that the process is in full swing. I have my house at the Lake of the Ozarks on the market and as soon as it sells (or sooner) will relocate to the Orlando area to set up shop to pursue bringing these to the masses. I hope to have the kohensports.com website updated soon will full details can be reached at bruce@kohensports.com or easiest is just call me (Bruce Kohen) @ 573-392-7432

Here are some pix.

[Wish]

That just took hard shells to a new and MUCH higher level..

[jimbrake]

I have a similar set up. See pics.

 

Just kidding @Brewski. You're a true craftsman! Great job.

 

 

[Steven_Haines]

I was wondering where you had gone. I guess that you've been busy! Nice looking product! How close can the spacing be between the two boots?

[giddyup]

Really looking good Bruce

[gsm_peter]

@jimbrake

looks like a Marker M3 front, Rotamat rear (non standard) and Kastinger ski boots.

All around 1972 or so.....

 

[jimbrake]

@gsm_peter AKA "explodomats". I was thinking based on the boot more like '69 - '71.

 

Hey @Brewski - Bruce, is that your personal setup in the pics? I ask because it looks like you have the toe of your (or whoever's) front boot in a pretty "customized" position. I would assume that its up to the skier to figure out the best alignment of boots (horizontal rotation left and right, ramping forward or not, canting vertically left and right). With such a customized, and well-fitting boot it seems to me you'd have to spend a lot of time trying to figure that out. I just know for me that I certainly couldn't mount those up straight and vertical and expect them to work. Do you envision working with your customers to figure out their best "stance"?

[Brewski]

@jimbrake Yes the boots are built anatomically correct so the toe is off to whichever side the big toe is on. The plates I designed allow for complete adjustment. Set up is nothing. I set it up at the shop for your foot to sit in the middle of the ski. Skiers can make small adjustments if necessary to help on whichever side turn is their weakest and really get that side to come around and turn correctly.

[eleeski]

I love the lightening cutouts taken to the extreme. Makes the Silveretta release based release system make sense with the ultralight modern skis.

Interesting boots. Can you build them with some flexibility or are they very stiff?

Cool products!

Eric

[Brewski]

This pair is mostly Kevlar so they are real flexy. The cut out is to allow the boot to sit on the ski not the plate and so light you do not know they are on the ski~!

[RazorRoss3]

How is the side to side rigidity? I use a strada front and a kicker and notice the binding starts losing its side stiffness which reduced the skis responsiveness to my movements in it. Forward back I don't have the same issue.

[Nando]

Incredibly awesome setup, fantastic craftsmanship, must be supremely comfortable and responsive, but someone has to be the first to ask- how much?

[Brewski]

@RazorRoss3 I have built them with several degrees of stiffness and different heights of the stiffness also. I prefer a medium height and stiffness which may look a little low cut and may be really stiff compared to current off the shelf boots. Also since I use a true aerospace composite structure there is virtually no breakdown so you can ski the same boots for 5+ season no problem. @Nando I can do the boot and plate @ 1k per foot. Toe loops and release mechanism must be purchased separately through Bennett's.

[Skoot1123]

@brewski - that is awesome looking. Great craftsmanship. Hope you can get orders like crazy!

[mwetskier]

so a pair of bindings would cost more than the ski? ouch.

[lpskier]

With apologies for raining on a parade, unless you have been licensed by Fogman, your use of rotational binding adjustment features, as your rear binding seems to incorporate, violates Fogman's patent. You may wish to avoid a patent violation and contact Terence Fogarty through Fogman about purchasing a license for what looks like a very cool product.

[MattP]

@lpskier so every ski company is paying a licensing fee to Terence for slots in the rear binding plate?

[EFW]

@MattP I have tried to stay off BOS, but my blood is boiling reading that. Hey Matt is that a "crack" or an honest question? If it's an honest question --that's cool--, and if it "AIN'T" that's really "uncool". You are barking up the wrong tree with Terence. But to answer your question Matt - no they are not. @lpskier John I am glad for once that this is out in the open. Bruce this is not against you, I've talked to Terence before about your stuff. You are cool with him as far as I know. But what John has stated is the simple fact of the matter. Terence isn't on top of the podium yelling "foul," but there are more than a few of us out there that are aware of the facts.

Once again Matt forgive me if I misread your intentions.

[MattP]

@EFW honest question. I was trying to fully understand what @lpskier was referring to regarding the rotational ability of bindings since almost every binding on the market can rotate. I assume regarding this patent? https://www.google.com/patents/US6053522?dq=Terence+Fogarty,+ski&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMIovCD47ztxgIVSYYNCh1Cewm0

[Horton]

I do not know of a binding today that does not allow the back foot to be angled.

[lpskier]

@Horton True. Some are licensed and some are not.

[Horton]

I support Terrace and any other patent owner but lawyers should deal with it. Not sure why the skiing consumer cares about the details.

[Nando]

I'm no patent attorney, but it seems that there's a material difference between the Fogman method of rotating the boot on the (proprietary) binding plate and rotating the binding plate on the ski (not that I want to get in the middle of this!).

[EFW]

We're all pretty much on the same page I think. Hey @Nando those Connelly wings you sent me I was able to come up with some of the originals from Pat Kennally (?). I sent one of those from Pat to Terence . But hey thanks again for that wing.

[Nando]

EFW, the wing I sent you came from Mark Solich at Connelly, who set me up with a bunch for some of us who were skiing at weedy sites and were having the plastic stock ones stripped off of our skis after like one pass. In looking at the patent drawings of the Fogman, I've gained anew appreciation for the system and how Terance developed it.

[EFW]

@Nando that's right. I got a hold of Mark and he had a gut feeling that Pat would have some laying around and he did! In case you didn't know it Terence is H2o Proshop, SN dealer, MM skier, big time down hill skier, inventor and on and on.

[Nando]

I should have mentioned appreciation for Brewski's craftsmanship, too. Those things are beautiful. I can't justify the price, so I'll just dream about having a fully custom-fit boot with custom graphics.

[Brewski]

@lpskier @EFW @Nando @Horton Thanks for all the input. Though Terence's product and mine are NOTHING alike and the patent is very vague when it comes to the EXACT nature of how the foot rotates or angles. That is why there so many are "unlicensed" plates out there. As far as other factors go there could be some references required when writing our own patent also so, I will definitely get with Terence also about his products and patents. Again, nothing much is going on/down until I get relocated so this is a good time for stuff like this. Anything else or anyone else got anything keep it coming~!

 

[Brewski]

I will be at Nationals in WPB if anyone wants to get casted shoot me an inbox or call or e-mail....

One of the owners of the above mentioned patent's foot in the shop. Notice the dislocation on the big toe from the other toes. This is the "Why?" in customs and the plate configuration. I am sure she won't mind if there is any part of the patent being used. ALSO: if anyone has a good number for Terence be sure to shoot it to me on the inbox the number on the Fogman website got me know where. I am sure he and I have a million things to talk about besides the patent so would appreciate his number. Thanks~!.

Plates back from the machine shop. I have 4 front and 3 rear 7075 Aluminum and 3 front and 1 rear G10X ready. The aluminum still needs polished and sealed.

[Brewski]

Some of my other work. I just finished restoring the 1972 Hodaka Super Rat. It is for sale if anyone is into VMX this is one BAD RAT.

 

[mwetskier]

@Brewski -not to put too fine a point on it but ' I am sure she won't mind ' doesn't have the same feel of legitimacy as ' i asker her and she said its okay '. they say its easier to apologize later than to ask permission before, and that is a cute saying but its not a very wise policy when it comes to intellectual property legally owned by somebody else.

[MattP]

@Brewski now I wish i was going to nationals this year!

[lpskier]

Done

[Dirt]

@Brewski those look awesome!

[Brewski]

@mwetskier I am crossing my I's and dotting my t's trust me. I have a really good attorney in Florida who already wants to be part of the business so he will be doing serious looking at EVERYTHING once we get past these prototypes.These were built on HO Pattern as they were intended to be shown to HO by Kris if all went well and I got a ski from Kris built by HO for my efforts of trying to help him out with his boot/foot issues. The start to finish gig took to long as it was done in my spare time and now Kris is @ Andys so you get an idea of what each skiers "custom" needs can be a serious undertaking. In looking forward when we gets set up it would be nice to get with all manufactures and design plates to "their" specs and demands and let them "mass produce" them and share royalties or whatever.

Also note: The heal of the rear plate does not pivot well plate because if you do pivot the plate the toe of the rear boot tends to block the front release in one direction. + the plates are "protoype" versions, I am not 100% sold not the Reflex release set up, it is just the only one a manufacture sent me N/C to work with Kris LaPoint and Patrick Ireland (skier shot in the head and foot at Columbine). I am not a fan of building plates, especially that cost more money than I can sell them for due to the extreme price of materials and machining. 90% of the material ends up on the floor. I have 325+ materials in each plate. The market seriously should not expect to pay more than 200-225 MAX for a plate. Not good for the business structure..

If another company likes them I may sell the engineering so that can "mass produce" them in China for pennies on the dollar like other boot and plate related product or they can spend the money on their own engineers come up with their own version....I am a design engineer. These plates took a whopping 5 minutes to design mentally, 6-7 hours to lay out in Auto Cad + another 10 hrs of machine programming and then a couple of summers of tweaking and re-engineering them and viola another 5k thrown in the lake and here is the current "prototype" version. What's next who knows. Throw more shit, see what sticks...

@Dirt @lpskier THANKS~! MUCH APPRECIATED~!

 

[Sofaking]

One recommendation I can make is moving to laser cutting or water jet cutting on the profile. You can also look into a few different aluminum materials, as 7k series is rather expensive when in this application a 6k series would do fine. Could also look into having key chains or some other small trinket made from the left over cutouts from the laser or water jet process. If you need any advice shoot me a message. Being in the machining industry in sure I can offer a few cents worth of advice.

[Brewski]

Some folks are interest in these again. To the top