Supershell release date anyone have any new info ?

[Fehlindra]

I have ordered and payed for the new shell i know they says it can be delivered mid sep. any of you guys have better info or date

[jrs]

I picked mine up at Nationals last month. Miami Nautique has them in stock. Best binding I've ever used!

[Fehlindra]

You have any closer pictures of it ? bah wanna start my season for real now after some struggle with my custom binding setup LOL

[Ralph Lee]

Jrs, we're you using reflex before? If so what do like better about the new version?

[Deanoski]

@jrs how does it ski different then the blk reflex boot?

[jrs]

@Deanoski I never skied on the black Reflex, so I can't say. The new shell is real stiff and the heal cup locks it in place. I bolt my cuff in place rather than use the heal strap. The metal buckles are nice and have more adjustment than you will ever need. They made my Nano One feel like a new ski with much better repeatability ball to ball.

[Ed_Johnson]

@jrs ... What bindings were you on before ???

[jrs]

@Ed_Johnson I used a modified Fogman with the G10 boot plate for that past 12 years. That system worked well and with a great safety factor. For years, I've been thinking about something stiffer and more direct to the ski. The Reflex is used by many great skiers and has a good record for safety when set up correctly. I went with the R-Style back because I didn't want to go back to needing soap for the rear boot. I thought the R-Style would take some time to feel comfortable but I was wrong, it feels about the same as my rear hard shell once you start pulling.

[Ed_Johnson]

@jrs .. Thanks for the info..I am happy to hear you are coming from Dual Hardshells and like the Reflex with R Style better...I just received mine today and you are right that the Front Boot is very, very, stiff...I also hope that the R Style rear is easily adaptable, this is my greatest concern..Just playing with it out of the box, it does seem to hold your rear foot tighter than I thought it would.

 

As I stated before, it was the recommendation from Andy that the R Style would allow the rear ankle to flex more and thus be able to get the hip farther forward than otherwise possible with a high gripping rear boot..I can say that the quality of the Reflex System is excellent..The improvements on the Supershell appear to be right along the lines that everyone has been modifying the previous models. Miami Ski Nautique was excellent to work with...Hope to get these boots mounted tomorrow and plan on skiing Fri. and Sat...Will let you know how I feel they perform.

 

 

 

[londonskier]

I've ordered my Supershell, hoping for arrival this week. I too have come off Powershells this week and gone to a regular Reflex with a soft rear (KD) boot, [rear lace, I leave loose]. I can now flex my back ankle. Its like a different stlye of skiing. With double hards, you ski with your legs as one unit, but with now I feel I ski more with my feet. I'm liking the regular Reflex, lets see what the SS feels like. Last week I had an OTF which did not release in the PS's but should have. Crushed my front foot a bit but luckily not too much.

[drewski32]

The shells are bigger?

[jrs]

@Ed_Johnson The R-Style will be easy to get comfortable with. Anyone going from a hardshell rear should start out with both buckles tight. Then after a few sets start changing the lower buckle to be a more comfortable fit. Once you have that worked out start backing off on the top buckle for the best feel for you style of skiing.

 

I have made a few changes to the front SuperShell. I removed the lower buckle and replaced it with the strap from an old plastic buckle. I did this because I found that I did not need to ever open and close that buckle, so why have the extra weight and hardware hanging over the side that low. This will also provide you with a spare buckle if you ever need it. Another change that I think everyone should try is to bolt the ankle cuff so it doesn't move. In my case, I get plenty of front knee bend and ankle movement in the liner. I've suggest this change to many skiers and only found one that ever wanted to go back to the moving hinge. The location for my SuperShell is to push the cuff forward to tighten the back strap. Then drill a hole through both cuff and boot. I use a countersunk screw from the inside so the head is flush and then a lock-nut on the outside. You should make sure the end of the screw does not stick out of the lock-nut far because you don't want it cutting a buoy as you round it.

[Deanoski]

@jrs Can u post. Pics

[rockdog]

I went to Reflex with R-style rear a while ago and didn't take long at all to get used to the R-style after coming off rubber rear boot. Really like it.

 

One thing though for those who are getting new Reflex fronts, I did it with a standard thin Reflex liner which was serviceable but only just got a Intuition which is substantially thicker. So far I've only moulded it, but now I can barely fit my foot into the boot! I got a 12 boot and a Large liner and it's a struggle to fit. It would almost be worth getting the next size boot to accommodate those liners.

[Ed_Johnson]

@rockdog ... The Reflex Supershell in size 12 is Huge..I am wearing the Thick Intuition Liner with a heavy sock inside, and I'm a size 13.

[rockdog]

Wow that's a big difference from the black/white shell...

[jrs]

Here are a few photos of my SuperShell set up. These were taken before I replaced the front (low) buckle with the plastic strap. You will notice that I removed the heal strap because it is not needed once you bolt the cuff. I try to remove extra weight when possible.

 

[Deanoski]

@jrs So you bolt the upper cuff straight up and down.

[jrs]

@Deanoski The new SuperShell had the strap in the back. I pushed the cuff all the way forward to tighten the strap, then I drilled it in that location. You should start by drilling one side and trying it. If you want to set it more forward or back, just drill another location on the other side and try that instead. When you are standing in the boot, you will notice that your front leg can get all the movement it needs with the cuff bolted. This change will also help the release to work better, that was the idea of the strap. My back boot is the R-Style and it gives me plenty of knee bend. I highly recommend the SuperShell with the R-Style rear.

[Drago]

Or you could measure the angle with a protractor, big ones are usually near the bubble levels at the hardware store

[Fehlindra]

Dont get this look on my binding compared to your binding how different the alu buckles are mounted, your buckles are what i can see about 1 cm or more from the edge and mine are almost at the the edge! if you look inside the shell at the middle bucklet there u can see 3 premarked rings and mine are mounted at the middle of em. if mine are upgraded whats the advantages/disadv of the placement on mine i experience that the shell edge bends down into the liner when tightening the binding.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@Fehlindra .... You have the latest version, which is the same as mine....Plus the first versions had black heel inserts that were taped, and the new ones are screwed in place and they are white.

[Fehlindra]

Ed do you experience that the edge bends as well? my guess the only reason for moving the buckles is to get less contact with the water when u edge the ski so they dont act like an break and get you out of balance

[Ed_Johnson]

The edge does bend in and I have not had any problem with water contact at all...They work perfectly....The new buckles are so much better than the old strap system.

[Marco]

@Ed_Johnson - Do you know if there are any Reflex try before you buy programs out there? My daughter is looking for a new setup after being on Radar Lyric's for years, but is hesitant to shell out the big bucks until she finds out if she likes them. She is looking for comfort and safety above all else. I remember when I switched from rubber to Reflex 8 years ago, there was a learning curve that lasted all of about 6 sets, but she won't take my word for it (go figure ;) )

[Ed_Johnson]

Sorry Marco, the only place I know was when Andy asked me to come by his lake and try out the Reflex with R Style Rear..That's only 10 mins. from my Lake, and I was already on one of his skis.

 

I really believe the NEW Supershell with R Rear is the most superior and safest setup out there..I've used the regular Refex before, but the mods to the Supershell blow it away.

 

 

[Marco]

Thanks @Ed_Johnson -I haven't heard of any way to demo them either, but I'll keep searching. Is the Supershell enough of an upgrade to make it worth buying even though I have a perfectly good 2 year old 505 setup? Also, can I buy just the boot, or do I need a whole new setup?

[skierjp]

I got mine at Miami Nautique. NO REFUNDS!! Yes you can buy just the shell. I would say you could sell them on ski-it -again with no problem.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Marco ... What makes the new system better is the Double Horseshoe on the Front, the stiffer boot with metal buckles, and the heal stabilizer with about 1/4" lift...It makes you one with the ski. I sold my older Reflex the first day I put it on Ski-it-Again...Plus the Carbon Plate is as light as paper.

[Fehlindra]

i must say its zero lift cos the heal stand on the plate ( the black hole) the white heal stabilizer keeps the boot rock solid down so its not going sideways or the walls of the shell bends so you lose any edge control

 

[keithh2oskier]

@skierjp Does Miami Nautique really not offer refunds/returns on the Supershell? No mention of that when I placed my order online. My size seems pretty straightforward according to the Reflex website but I am wondering if I can exchange the liner if I need to order the thick one instead of the thin one I ordered (before I heat mold it of course).

 

I just ordered the supershell over the weekend. This will be my first hardshell and I am really excited to try it. I have Animals and just getting back into skiing after 5 years off after college. My front foot is in excruciating pain after 3 passes so I am really going to the hardshell for comfort but I am excited about performance as well. Any recommendations for a new hardshell user? I am keeping my rear animal and was planning on just setting the front one right where my old front binding is/was.

[jrs]

@Fehlindra I agree with you mine has the hole in the center of the heal stabilizer and does not have any added heal lift.

 

@keithh2oskier The best advice I've ever received when going from a rubber boot to a hardshell is to give it 3 weeks. The first time out will not feel good. By the end of the first week, you will be thinking this thing could work. By the end of the second week, you will be really bonding with it and seeing improvement. By the end of the third week you will not let anyone take your hardshell from you! I moved from Animals to hardshells about 12 years ago and this is how it felt to me. Also, make sure that your rear Animal is loose enough to easily come out in a fall when the front boot releases. I broke my foot in an Animal boot and that is why I switched to hardshells so long ago.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Fehlindra @jrs ... My heal cup has the hole also, however, my boot does not hit the plate through the hole, it rests in the cup. The front of my cup has about a 1/8th inch lip that raises the boot...I sat my boot on a level plate and measured the height, then measured it sitting in the cup...It is RAISED 1/4". If I lay the ski on it's side and look at the base of the boot, where it enters the cup, I see over a quarter of an inch of air between the boot and the plate..Sit the boot on a flat surface, look at the base, and there is very little air under it, the boot is almost flat on the bottom.

 

Anyway, I am planning on raising the rear R Boot 1/4" to match it, and see if I feel a difference.

 

 

 

[skierjp]

I was told no refund but I believe that would be if I used them. The cool way that they determined my size at Nationals is they had me try the hard shell on with my sock on, no liner!! You should only have about 3/8 of slide back and forth with the binding unbuckled or lightly buckled. This would be for the thin liner. My big toe just touches the front when buckled and ready to ski. I wear a size 9 1/2 to 10 shoe and I have a Size 8 hard shell with a large liner. I used a size 10 Vapor binding.

One tip to just getting started with hard shells is buckle them loose, or about the tightness as your rubber binding.

It's crazy but don't be alarmed if you miss your first deep water start

[keithh2oskier]

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of leaving the laces untied on my rear animal for the release purposes. Maybe next year ill move to the R-style boot. To be honest I haven't come out of my ski boots in at least 15 years and probably not since I was a little kid at 24 mph going over monster wakes. I almost always just blow the tail out... Never had an OTF so the release mechanism is the only big concern I have since the idea of coming out of the front and not the rear terrifies me. Ill be conscious of leaving the hardshell on the loose side to get used to it.

[Fehlindra]

LOL ED and Jrs u guys turned me into an nolifer this eve (swe time) after your post i felt that i must for real investigate this so i put 1 drop of olive oil over the whole heal area of the hardshell and removed oil with an cloth so it was just an thin thin layer left and carefully put the shell on the plate and locked it in place with the release and stepped my foot in it and put some pressure on it here is the result...

as u see its just a ring 1.5 cm that's are in contact with the shell so at least on my shell its direct on the plate ED now its your turn =)

 

[jrs]

@Ed_Johnson and @Fehlindra I think what we may be seeing is a different fit between sizes. Mine is Reflex size 8 and I think Ed said his was the next size up. I just measured mine with a set of gages. With the shell clamped in and my weight on it, the most amount of lift I can measure with and without the heal stabilizer is 0.050" (just a bit over 1mm) with the stabilizer. Maybe Ed's larger boot heal does not sit into the heal stabilizer walls as far? Anyway, with all this said the SuperShell is awesome and I'm running more buoys! B)

[Ed_Johnson]

@Fehlindra ... I measured mine, with and without the heal cuff, so I know where it's at...Plus mine is a size 12 Large Boot and I also have shims under the Horseshoes that yours doesn't...You can believe what you want, mine is raised 1/4," so now I plan to match the back boot...Also, your plate is TOTALLY different than mine, which is the Carbon Long Plate.

 

PS: Mount the boot, put it on it's side, and see how much air is under it..Mine is just over 1/4" .

 

 

 

[Fehlindra]

sry Ed dint see or dint get the thingy with the extra hardware i must mod mine aswell somehow (bow legs offside disadvantage)

[keithh2oskier]

Is there a way to cant the front supershell with the white heal cup? I took my first two rides tonight on it. Its certainly different from my Animal and took about 3 or 4 passes to where I felt like I could turn on my offside but overall it wasn't as big of a jump. Anyways I noticed that because its so locked in, it was driving my front knee at an awkward angle and was a bit uncomfortable on my right hip. I was thinking I could move it around but the little plastic adjusters wouldn't move the heel cup. I just took the white heel cup off and realized its screwed in place.

 

Is this normal to want to adjust the angle of the front boot or should I just learn to live with it?

 

Below is the setup with the heel cup removed. Their are four holes (highlighted) plus the two adjusters (circled in red). It almost seems like the adjusters are useless if the heel cup is screwed into place no?

 

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu136/keithncollins/Capture_zpsyb51fj5g.png

 

Also should I protect the carbon plate where the boot hits it? I noticed it already was starting to damage the finish. I was thinking just a thin piece of tape or something?

[gregy]

@keithh2oskier my feet naturally turn out. I've experimented a little with rotating my front foot and it felt more comfortable to me and allow my hips to align better on the offside. I'm wanting to try reflex boots, if I do I'd really like to experiment more rotating the front. I was thinking possibly a custom plate or getting rid of the cup piece and using bondo or epoxy puddy for custom heel piece. For me it seemed like just a slight rotation help.

 

@Ed_Johnson lets know the results if you lift the rear. I remember MattP had lifted his rear toe plate to match the front Ob4 and liked it.

[Ed_Johnson]

@gregy ... Will do, still playing with rear plate position and have settled on what I call 50% rotation. It seems you have 2 positions to rotate the rear boot, Mild and Extreme..I settled on the mild, which is half of the extreme..It is also about half of what my previous Powershell was rotated.

Also, I use to rotate my front Powershell about 1/4" but find it NOT necessary with the Supershell. I believe the reason I don't require as much rotation either front or rear on the Supershell, is the fact you are SO connected to the ski...It has made the ski MUCH more responsive. I feel really comfortable with the bindings, but I actually feel like I am on a NEW ski.

Yesterday I ran my opening 32 like it was easier than walking my dog, simply by doing NOTHING.

My 35 was close to that also...My biggest problem since going to the Supershell has been over turning, because it turns now when you breathe on it...Like a gun with a hair trigger...As long as I do the Nate Smith thing of a really good leveraged load at the finish of the turn, cast out, and eat a sandwich, then I am in good shape...ANY rotation off the apex and your in the Lake.......Sometimes it is harder to do NOTHING.

[gregy]

@Ed_Johnson I order a R-style today. I ordered the complete package but I have a bunch of aluminum sheet and a shop full of metal working tools. I think I could knock something out pretty quick to experiment with angle. From the pictures above I think my preferred rotation will be somewhere in between. Or someone else said they enlarged the holes in the boot? They should be here Mid next week.

 

Wonder if you could do something to tune out the overturning? When I was skiing on the 6.0 I remember it pretty much turning on its own and always a tight radius turn.

[Fehlindra]

As Ed says with this binding its a lot more response with less input i have the same problem with overturning on my 1-3-5 RFF but i just got my FM intuition liner so i haven't heatmolded it yet nor less i havent had the time to correct the tilt on the shell/cuff that's needed to have an neutral stance on the ski to overcome the over turning on my good side i think i can tilt the shell even more so the ski wanna turn slightly to the right when standing with an neutral stance right over the ski and that's gonna help me with my offside turn as well 2-4-6 and and gate its prob gonna take alots of tweaking to get the right settings

[Ed_Johnson]

@gregy ... Moved the rear binding back one hole, 1/4". Seems to have stopped any over turning issues. Ski feels rock solid but still as responsive as before. Just shift COM the way you want to go and your gone.

 

What is different is that with my Powershells, setting the front boot at the recommended 30" put the back rear at 17 1/2", and that is where it skied best. With the Supershells, I started with those settings but the ski became Super Sensitive and really overturned so easily..Moved the rear back to 17 1/4 and it was not quite as sensitive, but would overturn easily....Now back at 17" it is great. That foot setting on my Powershells would have been a disaster.

 

My feeling is that with the R Style you are using much more of the ball of your foot and your heel is free to move more. So next week I plan to raise the rear heel 1/4" to match the front, and see how that feels.

[DanE]

@gregy The reflex plate is crazy drilled with holes in the boot mounting area but the holes is drilled in such a manner it's either crazy rotated or dead straight to choose from.

What I did was move the boot back on the plate to an un drilled area and drill new holes in the plate with my desired rotation then cut of the excess plate in the front (the plate is also crazy long so there a lot of plate to use)