Wake crossing

[Howa1500]

Hello ballofspray users, like many others I have a few skiing questions. I've been having trouble lately with wake crossing technique and creating a the proper angle across the wake. I've only been skiing for two months with no course no buoys. I ski off a 87 supra comp ts6m and on an OLD obrien competitor. I'm 15 and were hoping to get a course next year but I'd like to have my form down before I take it to the course. Anything else wrong in the video feel free to let me know. Not positive I uploaded it to the forum but I'll make it happen, thanks!

[Howa1500]

[wskierman8]

Do this drill. I know it's a dated video but the drill is a good one.

[DGravelle]

keep your hips up, it looks like you stop pulling before you get to wake and then start again after you cross the wakes try to accelerate through the wakes so then you don't have to pull after the second wake because you should be stating to change your edge here, others will chin in here and probably explain better than I but I hope it helps.

[crashman]

You've only been skiing for 2 months? Awesome job!

[GOODESkier]

SWEET! You've got a GREAT Start! That drill is a good one.

[Howa1500]

http://youtu.be/WvX1pylE068 And does anyone know how to get the wake down on this ski boat. The wake is considerably soft but anything past 22 off has a real hard bump, but usually 22 off has the biggest bump? 87 supra comp ts6m

[Lukewarmwater]

You might try going just outside the wakes on either side and then cutting back thru. If you go way outside, it causes you to come back into the wake fast, and then you flatten up for fear of the wake. Faster boat gets the wake a little smaller; as well as a shorter line. I mostly practiced at 28 off. Ultimately you want to have the ski on edge through the wakes; the ski will take the wakes much better that way. Start edging close to the wakes first, to build confidence with leaning and edging thru. Have fun!

[Howa1500]

Thank you all for your comments they are greatly appreciated

[foxriverat]

Theres not much you can do about the 22 off hump. Ive got a 96 supra ts6m. Try to keep as light as possible. Rear seat out if it comes out. 1/4 tank of gas. Wake plate adjusted 1/4 inch down. I put on a oj 4 blade 13 x 13 seemed to soften hump a bit. Also have a spotter or counter weight up front. Boat likes to lean to the drivers side making wake uneven. I use 150lb straightline big bag when theres no spotter.

[ToddL]

That is quite a bump behind that boat. I can see why you would be a little timid in crossing that thing.

 

I posted this in another thread, but it applies here. Whether it is drills, wake crossings, or just riding behind the boat, you want to always be trying to improve your "stack" body position. This is the single most important skill that will stay with you for every challenge to come in slalom skiing.

 

The one thing that helps me the most to be stacked in my approach to 1 is to get stacked before I even lean outbound and keep it.

 

What I mean is stack (once really achieved) makes everything easier, and thus the stack is easier to maintain. When you feel calm, early, and confident; your stack is easier to maintain because you aren't doing something extra to try to catch back up.

 

Therefore, the most important thing is to be Pro-Skier Stacked before you even start to lean outbound for the gate setup. Then, work to hold that stack, during the outbound motion, during the glide, and during the turn in. This will put you on path for that calm, early, confident 1-ball.

 

Pro-Skier Stack is: Standing tall with 90% of your core/torso over your front foot. At least, that's how I feel it. You have to feel tall and you have to feel that your whole body is over the front foot. There is a lot of talk about hips forward which is correct, but I think it is easier to think torso forward.

 

I really like Horton's Ideas for stack and use them to describe this process for feeling/finding that perfect stack: (try this on the dock first)

Get into your ski position. You are probably further back and butt back than you realize (fig 1)

Stand tall, really tall. (fig 2)

Bend your front ankle while simultaneously straightening your back leg. If you did that right, you should feel like your torso is crazy forward almost out the front. (fig 3)

Now, without changing anything from the waist down, simply lean your shoulders slightly back until they are vertical again. (fig 4)

 

Once you feel this, you can compare it to what you previously thought felt like "stacked".

 

Now, on the water, as soon as you are up and stable, move to your starting position just to the left of the left wake and do the above process to get into "Pro Stack". Freeze.

Then, to move outbound, ONLY do these two things: Rotate your hips to the left (counter-clockwise) about 25 degrees and move your hips to the left as if to lead the rest of your body in the direction you want to go. Notice that you are NOT to lean or rear back against the boat. It is about driving a ski edge into the water. If done correctly, you will be wider, faster with less effort and still stacked.

As you rise up into the glide, re-assess your stack and fix any lost position. Think "rise up and forward".

If in a long glide, then keep hips slightly rotated away to maintain width.

Then, to turn in, rotate the hips clockwise and lead with them in the direction you want to go.

Again, it isn't about rearing back on the boat. It is about driving a ski edge into the water.

[Wish]

If you are just free skiing, move ahead of the 22 by making your own loop (25 off) or jump to 28. I owned a 87 Ts6m and 28 off and shorter was just fine and comparable to what is out there now for the most part. You're not chasing buoys yet and to be honest you should not until a lot of what has been said is incorporated into your skiing. Buoys just get in the way of progress with proper technique. And that bump in the wake will also hinder progress. It's not about simulating getting out to buoys, it's about developing form and technique to get that done. Measure your success on how well you have executed a technique.

[disland]

@toddl love the stick figures. Was looking at the pictures from the Mapple event and its interesting how the skiers look exactly like #4 just before the reach

[Howa1500]

 

I'm new at this, with a good amount of pressure being on the front foot, is this what a stacked position looks like. It almost looks like CP has pressure on his back foot by the way his torso is so for back

[Infinite5ths]

Also, if you feel you are pulling all the way, but folks still say you "stop pulling before the wakes", it could be something I learned: The earlier you pull/lean really hard, the earlier you can get pulled back up over the ski. Learn to lean VERY, VERY progressively (i.e. a lot slower than you think), especially into your gate. This gives the ski time to set angle and keeps you from falling back on the tail. For a 30mph and 15-off skier the progression is FAR slower than you imagine, and seems WAY slower than any pro video (even Seth Stisher's 15-off vids).

 

It helps me to think of the rope a bit like a bungee cord: It's going to pull back sooner or later. The harder/quicker you slam down into the lean, the faster/earlier it snaps you back up and over onto a flat ski. If you're extra tall and light this is even more true.

[mwetskier]

@ToddL -either i have a huge miss understanding of what it means to lead the turn with your inside hip or you mixed up clock wise and counter clock wise. you wrote ' Then, to move outbound, ONLY do these two things: Rotate your hips to the left (counter-clockwise) '. . . but that doesnt make any sense to me. you did the same thing with the turn in saying to rotate your hips clock wise. so either you accidentally got those two ideas backwards or every thing i thought i knew about skiing is wrong.

[ToddL]

Hmmm... I think I got it right as far as my intent. So, let's try some different words to see if we are thinking the same or different things.

 

From the curl just outside the left (passenger side) boat wake, you rotate your hips such that your right hip comes forward a little and your left hip moves back a little so as to rotate and point your belly button to 10 or 11 o'clock. Then, after done gliding, you move your right hip forward and your left hip back to rotate so as to point your belly button to 1 or 2 o'clock.

 

The concept of leading a turn with your inside hip is more about the approach into the turn. After the apex, especially on your off-side, you have to point the ski back across the boat's path, by rotating the hips.

 

[Onside135]

@Howa1500…brings back memories. My family's first inboard was an '87 Supra with the same interior colors as yours. Your boat looks to be in nice shape. What color exterior? Ours had a light blue accent color all around.

[Howa1500]

@Onside135 ours has the same color exterior as interior, that rainbow color scheme

[Deke]

@Howa1500 CP and stick figure are the same relative to the ski. If you tilt stick figure to the same ski attitude they match. CP is not standing on the water, he is standing on the ski.

[Howa1500]

@Deke that's very true I didn't look at it that way

[mwetskier]

@Toddl -so your saying that you turn and face your upper body counter clock wise out toward the left hand shore to initiate your pull out for the gate? and then when you turn in for the gate you rotate your body clock wise toward the wake? that seems exactly opposite from just about every thing i've read in the last decade. marcus brown and t-gas and just about every one else who write articles about this have promoted the opposite approach.

[ToddL]

@mwetskier - No. I only mentioned hips. Not the upper body. Hips move the ski. Shoulders should stay "open" or "counter rotated" or facing down course. Thus, in a very extreme motion, the torso would be twisting. But, this shouldn't be an extreme motion. Just a subtle rotation of the hips. The hips will drive the lower body to point the ski outbound.

 

The key point is that to initiate the movement outbound, the skier uses the hips, not the shoulders, not rearing back against the boat. Rather, the skier should be putting the edge of the ski into the water and directing the ski outbound without rearing back. The easiest way to feel this is via rotation of the hips while already stacked over the front foot. Another element is the movement of the entire pelvic girdle in the desired direction of travel. In the case of the initial outbound motion, this means moving the hips to the left so as to drive the left edge of the ski into the water. This edging along with the rotation will give the skier an efficient motion and position to move outbound without loading the boat.

 

 

[mwetskier]

@ToddL -i dont want to be too disagreeable so think this is my last post on this particular subject. when you say ' point your belly button ' i see that as more a part of my upper body than my hips but everyone is built differently. however you've clarified that you want to turn your hips counter clock wise to move outbound and clock wise to turn the ski back toward the wake. i completely disagree with this and think it is far more effective to twist your hips *clock wise* to initiate outbound direction and *counter clock wise* to initiate your turn in toward the gates. i also think this is what most pro coaches teach.

 

 

 

 

[Dano]

@ToddL @mwetskier I think you guys are on the same page just getting caught up on the verbage. Maybe better to think of it as, move your left hip towards the 11:00 position to edge out, and the right hip towards the 1:00 position to initiate the turn in. I don't see it as a rotation of the hips. Although the hips do rotate as result of doing the above as the turn is completed.

[ToddL]

@mwetskier - no worries. Do what works for you. There's never only 1 way to improve.

[wilecoyote]

As for the photo of CP, one sure way to know where the weight is, is to look at where the water is breaking on the ski. If you can't see the ski because of all the spray shooting forward from under the ski, weight is forward for sure. I looked through a few videos, and this is the only time I've seen him with his shoulders back like that. Others who know way more than me are free to comment but I think this position is not a true representation of how CP sets his stack.

[Howa1500]

@wilecoyote I agree, but the way I see it, his torso is awfully far back

[ToddL]

That still shot of CP does have him a little back. But, here's the best point of the picture - look at the spray coming off the bottom of the ski. Do you see any air between the part of the ski under the front binding and the water? Nope. He has the whole sweet spot of the ski engaged in the water. I see so many skiers so far back during the glide that you can read the graphics on the bottom of the ski under their front foot.

 

Bottom line - keep the sweet spot of the ski in the water to get your money's worth out of that ski's tech.