A new Bible for fin tuners

[Freddie Winter]

I'm currently halfway through reading a 250 page book on fin tuning. Yep, 250 pages of well written slalom ski insight addressing fin setup as well as issues, terminology and analysis of many of the things we all encounter in skiing. It's outrageous and an incredible thing to have in our sport. As a huge fan of water skiing I'm really excited to see something like this. @SkiJay has written a bible for water skiers.

[skialex]

Where can I get it?

[ozski]

Well done @SkiJay !!!

[drew]

I too am partially through @SkiJay 's work--super insightful, thought provoking and on-point relevance throughout... and sure to assist skiers everywhere in the years to come. Exciting!

[Than_Bogan]

Well that's kind of exciting! Always been my top BoS source for fin advice. Would be sweet to have it all in one place.

 

Of course, I haven't read a 250+ page book since Harry Potter VII. Could be a challenge!

[Texas6]

Amazing that you can even give fin tuning that many pages of data

[Kelvin]

www.finwhispering.com

[Than_Bogan]

Sweet! I put my name on the pre-order list. (Or at least I think I did ... no confirmation message.)

[Chef23]

I put my name on the pre-order list as well. @SkiJay has provided me with fin help in the past and it has always been great advice. I am not sure I will be able to plow through 250 pages of fin/ski tuning but I certainly will use it as a reference book.

[Horton]

I read 137 pages of it yesterday. Interesting stuff.

[SkiJay]

Way to spill the beans Freddie (Wikileaks) Winter!

I'm glad you like it buddy! And thanks for spreading the word.

[A_B]

Is it Old Or New Testament? Any Revelation chapters?

[SkiJay]

btw, it's not 250 pages. It's only 215 ... with lots and lots of pictures like below. And it's not just about fin-tuning. It's about everything from the tools and techniques of measuring bindings, wings, and fins, through why skis do what they do and how to custom-tune them to play nice with your individual technique.

 

 

[jimbrake]

I just went through an interesting exercise of taking several sets on the two different Goode flex tails then going back to my D3 Quest. One of the flex tails was a great fit for my skiing, the other not so much. When I got back on my Quest it took me four passes to get past 2 on my opener (28 off). Once I realized what my current set up on my Quest was doing to me, I adjusted me a bit and the ski and I worked great together. I think I learned more about ski behavior and how my setup works with my style/technique in those few sets than in the past several years of just tuning my ski only. I look forward to reading Jay's book and figuring out how to set up MY ski to optimize the way it works with my preferred style/technique. Thanks, Jay.

[GOODESkier]

@FWinter does this mean your published thoughts in Waterski Magazine on tweaking has changed? I am headed to the site to order one as well. Never have too much info available.

[Waternut]

Sounds like a cool book. Is there a quick reference chart anywhere in that book? Most times I make fin adjustments I have to go to 3-4 different sites because everyone uses different language which may or may not make sense to what I'm trying to accomplish. Some use the terms like this will raise tip or lower tip which is honestly a bit vague, some say that this adjustment will fix a skiing problem, some say this will change how the ski reacts at certain points, etc.

 

edit:

Just remembered @skijay was the guy who watched a couple videos of me skiing and recommended a few fin tweaks which improved my skiing more than any of the 5 pro lessons I've had. With that in mind, I think will be on my "to buy" list.

[BrennanKMN]

Pre-ordered! Excited to read this.

[Skislalom]

Pre order, just awesome for us tweakers

[skialex]

Pre ordered mine yesterday!

[thager]

And yet nobody wants to pay for Schnitz???

[Chef23]

Schnitz wants $79 for 58 pages. It might be worth it but it seems expensive. I do realize Schnitzer has long been an innovator in the industry. @SkiJay has always been open and helpful with ski tuning help here and that definitely impacted my willingness to buy his book.

[skidawg]

Link?

[Chef23]

Here is the Schnitz link http://schnitzskis.com/skisetup.html. Looks like you can get it for $49 right now.

[Freddie Winter]

@GOODESkier I can't remember exactly what I was quoted as saying in WATERSKI but I'm sure it was something along the lines of 'fix yourself before you mess with your ski'. I stand by that and that's one of the great things about the book Jay writes that fin setup is not a substitute for technique, more a compliment to a good technique. I'm far from being a fin fiddler but I know a good solid base fin setup is necessary in order to ski well. This book is helping me with that understanding.

Along with all the hardcore fin numbery stuff, a good part of the book is more generally about how the ski is reacting to the water at a given point in the course. When I met Jay last year we talked about his background in motor sport so this explains his insight into movement. I loved this part of the book because it told me things I've never thought about in terms of what my ski is doing and will do in the future. That for me makes it invaluable.

[SkiJay]

Sorry @Waternut, but you won't find any traditional lists or charts in this book for exactly the reasons you've cited. By their nature, quick reference charts have to leave out critical "why" and "how" information, and that leads to confusion.

 

The foundation of this book is understanding. If you understand why the ski is doing what it's doing and how to best modify it, you won't need any charts—although good charts will make more sense for a change. A chart like this is full of great information, but without the fundamental understanding behind each of these choices, where do you start?

 

 

[ToddL]

Pre-Order submitted.

 

I would be interested in an eBook version. I know piracy is a concern with eBooks. I wonder if there is a way to put the purchaser's name on the first page of the eBook pdf so that if it gets forwarded, you know with whom to discuss the situation.

 

I know you are warry of charts, etc. but please consider a digest/summary version as eBook option for those who purchase the full book. Such a summary would be for someone who has read the book and merely needs to reference the already understood core basics of when to do what, without all the why...

[ForrestGump]

I preordered. But I'm going to need some pictures of boobies to last 250 pages.

 

Edit- Now that it's only 215 pages, I'll require 3 less pictures of boobies.

[gsm_peter]

At what level is fin tuning really needed?

 

I mean the only consistent in my skiing is the inconsistency.

Sometimes I can make 7/8 passes at 30@15off and sometimes I miss 7/8...

 

Does the fin make that much off a difference at that level?

 

 

 

[bishop8950]

Making sure your ski is set up properly matters at ALL levels. But once it's there or even close most of us can leave it alone and are much better served working on our technique.

[Jordan]

@gsm_peter ...I would say that it depends. Some skis are more sensitive to set-up than others. I have seen kids at a store 'set-up" a ski without a tape measure, or a caliper or angle gauges.

 

I know that the factories put more energy into setting the factory specs before they ship them out, but they can move in shipping....

 

I think that at a bare minimum, you need to get to recommended settings. Better yet, get help from someone who knows what they are dong to help you set it up....then leave it alone unless you are having a particular problem.

[ToddL]

@gsm_peter - back in the day, manufacturers were so nice to simply send out the skis with fins perfectly installed to factory settings...

http://img0007.psstatic.com/95896163_vintage-connelly-usa-hp-graphite-66-slalom-water-ski-w-.jpg

[ToddF]

Mine is pre ordered.

Can't wait, haven't read a book since "The Boz"

[ToddF]

Check that, Haven't read a book recreationally since the boz

[Greg Lukin]

does fin settings really matter for longer line skiing?

[Horton]

@Greg Lukin up to 28 off yes and no

Yes your fin needs to be set correctly

No you do not need to tweak to the .001th of an inch.

 

A logical setting is what you need.

[Wish]

You can always read the TON of info on his site under Recent Blog Posts while waiting for his book. Great deal of good information there as well. I've been lucky enough to have had the opportunity to ski with @SkiJay. Nicest guy you will ever meet. Very passionate about skiing. Looking forward to skiing with him this winter.

[Nando]

After checking out the site, I'll have to get the book- it's not just fin and ski setup, the logical explanations are helpful to understanding everything about how skis behave. Almost everything I've gotten before this on ski setup has neglected the "why" part of it.

[SkiJay]

Factory-recommended setups can't be perfect for everyone. But nobody should be skiing at any speed or line length without knowing there's at least an accurate factory-recommended setup on their ski. Otherwise, we risk forming wacky habits to compensate for the wacky setup—wacky habits that can be REALLY hard to unlearn later on.

 

New skis virtually NEVER come from the factory with the fin where they say it should be. It's too time consuming. Accurate setups are usually too time consuming for the shop that sold you the ski too. This leaves it up to you to ensure your ski is properly set up, regardless of your skiing skill level. This goes for all the skis you demo too. The first 51 pages of this book are devoted to the tools and techniques needed to put accurate factory setups on every ski you ride.

[GOODESkier]

@FWinter agreed on what you say for sure. I do believe there are instances where a small tweak in fin/binding can allow someone with reasonable technique to transition into a better position and actually aid their skiing. Honestly, I felt that in my last ski purchase. Something in the ski or the set up, allowed me to move through the turn with my hips better than before and allowed me to stay better connected. Since then I have been tweaking a little here and there with bindings to adjust for conditions and keep that feeling alive.

[Ed_Johnson]

I just went through several sets switching from Powershells to the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear...The smallest movements made HUGE differences in the ski's performance..Best move I ever made...I believe getting and understanding Jay's book will be the best move many of us could make.

 

 

[buoyboy1]

When will the book be available?

[Ed_Johnson]

@OB1 ... The only reason I switched was because Andy kept telling how it would give me so much more COM movement. He was absolutely Right.

 

In 1998 I tried a Reflex with a Wiley Rear and could not even come out of the water with the ski moving around so much. Put the Reflex on my Trick Ski and went back to Powershells. That stuck in my mind, so I was really reluctant to try the R Style Rear, believing I would have the same results. Since then, some really advanced skiers and Andy kept telling me the R would hold you firmly and if you used your same Intuition Liner from the Powershells, put a tight strap around the top, your mind would think you are still in the Powershell..That tip worked like a champ, and now I have so much more freedom of hip movement, I can take my skiing to a much higher level.

 

Once again the GOAT was right !!!

 

 

 

 

[doddbeef]

Finished the 215 pages. Great book Jay,

something for every level of skier and coach!

[SkiJay]

For anyone who doesn't know who "doddbeef" above is, it's because he's so refreshingly modest. Bruce Dodd is 3 times Canadian Open Champion, 2012 55+ World Slalom Champion, long time Big Dawg competitor, and an all around great guy. Oh yeah, he's also ski jumper Ryan Dodd's dad.

[SkiJay]

@buoyboy1 The release date is set for the end of November.

[bishop8950]

Coming back to "does ski set up matter at all levels"... I firmly believe yes. A story:

 

I set up a ski (68" D3 RC) for a skier who was close to running 34/15 but never had. I did not realize I had the set up totally wrong, just screwed up. He could barely ski on it. So I jumped on it and I could hardly run a pass. I re-set everything and skied really well on it after that. I have it back to him and his free skiing looked so much better. At the end of his ride he ran his first ever 34/15. It was this day I learned set up is not only for Shortline skiers.

 

I am currently messing around with the set up of kids skis to make that easier for them. Maybe @SkiJay has a chapter on this too!

[SkiJay]

Yup @bishop8950. There's a chapter devoted to making skis behave shorter and longer, so Jr. can stick with one expensive ski while he/she blows through a couple of sizes of board shorts. It also addresses setting up a ski for our biggest ski friends who outweigh the longest ski in the lineup by over 30 pounds.

[GOODESkier]

@SkiJay interested in kids set ups for sure......

[pregom]

I ordered my copy of the book - can't wait for it to arrive. @SkiJay, after reading the article on your Fin Whispering site about all skiers owning a caliper, I have a few questions:

is David Dipol slot caliper (slotcaliper.com/, reviewed here at BOS) the same as the one for sale at Goode's site?

how do you convert measurements taken with a normal caliper to those taken with a slot caliper?

Between a normal caliper and a slot caliper, I'm thinking I should buy a slot caliper, given its better accuracy. Should I consider other factors before pulling the trigger?

for a Radar Senate ski, I found Matt Rini's fin settings, but where can I find Radar's factory settings?

 

Looking forward to reading the book!!

[SkiJay]

@pregom

I'm pretty sure David's and Goode's slot calipers are exactly the same. Slot calipers measure .010 – .012 longer than a normal head measurement on most skis, but it depends on the slope of the back of the ski and whether the fin setup is long/shallow or short/deep (which affects the slope of the fin's trailing edge and measurements). The slot caliper is more versatile and easier to use for casual users, but they are really cheaply made and not as nice to use as a decent quality caliper. Right now, Matt's numbers ARE the "factory" numbers.