BigDawgs at the US Open Finals - a good thing or a bad thing?

[TFIN]

We are fully in favor of the public locale and the 4-buoy course. The venue is ideal. This is why we do what we do, an opportunity to have our sport showcased in front of a crowd..Malibu and Moomba are generally considered the too events of the season.

[ALPJr]

A little off topic - 3 events, 4 ball course and pro purses... 89 Marine World and Masters article

https://books.google.com/books?id=hXL60DHdwOoC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=marine+world+africa+pro+water+ski&source=bl&ots=vyetuyHYrU&sig=3rRwrrhiD-e8H1QafkEnrzZrPG8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwB2oVChMI9dr3s-HOyAIVQoI-Ch352QI4#v=onepage&q=marine%20world%20africa%20pro%20water%20ski&f=false

[EricKelley]

@Wish Rob Shirley did have 4 ball events. I think it is likely he would have never had the BD. He could barely stand the tricks. I think tricks are much more entertaining to the average person now due to flip runs. IMO much more entertaining than wakeboarding to watch.

[RazorRoss3]

Tricks are more fun than wake boarding to watch because the trick pace is faster and they do similar things at higher speeds with less wake and do more tricks per distance travelled than wake boarders. I think the average non-skier would be more entertained by trick & jump than slalom just because slalom is slower paced and a test of weather the spectator can repeatedly count to 6...

 

As a skier it is my favorite to watch/participate in.

[Wish]

So with the U.S. Open being a 4 ball course, does it still fall under sanctioned rules for how the course is built for class "R" or "L" or is this simply an exhibition when they get to the finals? I'm getting the idea that RL does not allow a float course even if to exact specs. Is this the case and would this be the case with a 4 ball course??

[Horton]

@wish it is a show. Not sure of the class but I assume it does not go in normal books

[klindy]

Pretty sure it'll have to be class F.

[Wish]

So there should be no issue with a 4 ball float course yes??? Can anyone confirm that? It matters.

[MattP]

I'm pretty sure the course is anchored in and surveyed by a TC to class R specs. Will be class F and will not go into any offical scorebooks.

[klindy]

@Wish there is typically a real desire for everything to be right - individually anchored and surveyed etc - but @OB1 is right, it's not necessary for a 4-ball course or a class F tournament. It's as much a matter of "knowing it's right" as anything.

[Ed_Obermeier]

So a floater properly surveyed so that we "know it's right" with the centerline gates and turn balls secured in place properly and surveyed to make sure they're correct could be an option? Kinda of what we did at the 2008 Junior US Open which FWIW was allowed under IWSF sanction using AWSA certified judges and TC. Would way simplify installing 2 side-by-side courses and reduce costs and labor required.

[mshaw200]

@MattP while the BD payout might be more then the OM Slalom that is because of the BD sponsors and entry fees. It's only highlighted this year because it's a combined event. To my knowledge, the total payout and paying down to 8th spot has been in place since at least 2009. The US Open payout was based on the money that CBS could raise (or not raise) for the event.

 

If the Open skiers want to be upset about their payout or even the number of skiers going to the finals that needs to be directed to the right people, and complaining about the BD's isn't the right direction. This is our Finals and we just want to ski. Do I want the BD to take away from their US Open? Of course not, but I also don't want out Finals, an event that is important to us, be bashed on. While none of the BD's do this for a living but I promise you that every BD skier is just as passionate and competitive as the Open skiers.

 

@skidawg To be accurate it isn't a two stop average and while it wasn't a guarantee this year, only 2 people that made the sweet 16 weren't ranked in the top 40 at the end of the year. And I have no doubt that as good as you are, had you gone to one stop you would have made it into the Finals. You should reach out to Nautique about last year, you should have gotten $400 I think for 8th.

 

@Kelvin It may seem off that the BD have 16 skiers skiing on Saturday but that is our format and that hasn't changed in years. 2 prelim rounds one day followed by Sweet 16 head to head the following. Taking fewer Open skiers to the finals on Saturday was a decision made by others and isn't the fault of the BD skiers. I would personally prefer our finals to be at night under the lights.

[MattP]

@mshaw200 @GregDavis I was just reporting the facts about the differences in payout as people were asking so that they can best form their opinions on the situation based on the correct facts. I know the purse's are created from different revenue streams and the events are run buy different groups.

 

I think something that EVERYONE missed here is that the US Open is a 3 Event tournament. Not just mens slalom. With $40,000 being paid out across men and women slalom, trick and jump. Besides the US Masters it is the only pro event that offers all 3 events in the US. 3 Event has been the standard for the US Open for many years. Their continued support of 3 event skiing for both Men & Women is commendable. It will be a great show with the best skiers around the world in attendance in all 3 events!

[unksskis]

Great point, can't wait to see the 3 event web cast

[BRY]

The BD purse is larger than the Pro's purse seems to be a common theme here. Unless @MattP's numbers are wrong (doubtful), then it $12,000 for the BD total compared to $20,000 for Pro men's slalom only. That's 66% more money for the Pro Slalom than for the BD, and that's men's slalom only.

Seems like the Pro's ski a faster speed, ski shorter lines, have a larger purse and are run last as the featured event. More BD than Pro in finals, that's an issue from the various formats. If BD was not there only 5 would be in the Pro final anyway.

I do not see how the BD causes the Pro's to be watered down.

 

[BRY]

BTW I plan to drive up Thursday to watch the pro preliminaries. Can't do both Thur and Fri so having to pick between Pro and BD I personally pick Pro.

The finals with a 4 ball course, BD or Pro, couldn't care less.

[MattP]

@BRY You have your numbers wrong. 12K for BD 10K for Pro Men Slalom.

[BRY]

@MattP Stand corrected. Looked at your first chart and appeared 10K for 1st, not total. With that was wondering what the complaining was about.

[elr]

Biggest $$$$ should be for OA IMO . . .

[TFIN]

Again. To reiterate, the BD event, format and payout are not the problems. I am a fan of the format and many of my closest friends in the sport are avid competitors in the series. The problem is the decision to run the event in conjunction with the Open. No one could argue the huge disparity between BD and Open representation during the finals will diminish the impact of the US Open slalom final.

[Horton]

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread for keeping the conversation friendly and on topic.

[Wish]

To add to @TFIN comment..Joe public will be, for the most part, confused as to why there is another men's slalom event and which one matters and why one is larger and why two titles and what is a big dog.. on and on......dispite the announcers spelling it out. Waters it down for both groups.

[BRY]

Here's to hoping Joe Public even shows to get confused....

[Ralph Lee]

After watching today I feel it was a terrible idea to have the Big Dawg finals coincide with the US Open. I hope it never happens again. To me it took away from both events.