15-offer moves down from high performance ski to mid-level ski

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I thought I would share my experience to hopefully benefit those who are also in my situation. I free skied on a Connelly V for two years (after taking a 20-year skiing hiatus) and then bought a 2014 Connelly Prophecy at the beginning of this season. I wrote a review of this experience and posted it here:

http://ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/12983/first-time-on-a-carbon-fiber-pvc-core-ski

 

I was also free skiing on the Prophecy until the second half of this season when I skied a few times on a friend’s private lake with a course and then ultimately bought my own portable course in August. I had become relatively accustomed to the high responsiveness and speed of the Prophecy when free skiing, but I kept feeling like it was too much ski for me once I got active in the course.

 

In my initial review of the Prophecy I commented that “I was working much harder to keep the ski under me” and that the ski felt like a banana peel with rocket engines attached. It took me about 6-8 sets on the Prophecy before I felt any amount of stability and I never really felt like I had fully tamed the beast. However, this high level of responsiveness was certainly one of the attributes that makes the ski fun. But in the course I was concerned that this Lamborghini was more than I could handle and that was causing me to have some serious enough falls that I kept getting minor injuries that would keep me out of the water for a week or more.

 

I got some advice that I thought made sense and decided to move down to a mid-level ski that would be more stable and forgiving while I learn the fundamentals of slalom skiing in a course. My first time on my new 2015 Radar Senate Alloy was this morning.

 

In comparison to my Prophecy the Senate felt incredibly stable but also was significantly less quick and nimble. At first I thought it seemed a bit like a tank compared to the Prophecy but then I realized that this was a tradeoff I was making and this was what I wanted. I’m currently working on consistency at 15 off and 30 mph, so I know that the Senate is the type of ski I need to be on and that it is "high performance" enough that it should easily take me into 28 off /34 mph should I ever get to that skiing level. I don’t want a ski that I am struggling to just keep under me while I am trying to learn course fundamentals (namely proper stack).

 

I think my move down to a mid-level ski was the right one and I certainly hope it helps reduce the number of hard falls I’ve been taking and allows me to progress my skills with greater confidence. Unfortunately I will probably only get another couple sets free skiing on the Senate before I put my boat away for its winter nap, but I am looking forward to next season and improving my skills on a ski that is a better match for my stage in the development process.

 

[Ryno]

You've made a good choice with the Senate. A friend of mine has one (that I strap on occasionally) and in some ways I find it more enjoyable when open water skiing than my Sans Rival. It just cruises and flows nicely, where as my Sans is more of a "go hard or go home" option.

 

At the speed you're tackling the course I'm sure the Senate will go better for you than the Prophecy, as you need that extra surface area to maintain a bit of speed through the turn. Then once you improve enough to start shortening at 34 mph, you can switch back to the Prophecy.

[Orlando76]

Funny, I'm on a '14 Senate Alloy and its a comfortable ski at any speed while free skiing. It's stability and easiness to ride got me skiing WAY more frequently and addicted to chasing buoys. In the course Im skiing it like a turd, I mean it feels slower than a geriatric slug on a salted snowed-in street, and thats at -15@32. Recently I've ridden a few Mapples. They've always intimidated me as I felt they weren't for beginners. The Mapples just feel right, faster yet controllable, carves a better turn and still every bit as stable as my Senate. This is just my .02, everybody has a different style.

[kfennell]

As a counter point I have seen abut 5 people change to a high end ski about 30 MPH and they all made huge improvements. I wonder if this is more related to having good settings on one ski vs the other? Settings matter a lot even at your speed and line length and dont let anyone tell you different!

[iceboating]

Tallskinnyguy I'm with you 100%. For some it takes 20 years of skiing to figure out what you just stated. A lot of factors go into ski choice. I find younger more athletic skiers can handle the new ultra short line slalom skies at entry level speeds but they are not the best option for them? And as I get older my skies are getting wider. I also feel the manufacturers don't put enough effort into the skies for entry level coarse skiers to,progress with. HO had something with the S2 that bridge the gap perfectly from the ultra shortline ski to the free ski. Every year that ski got better with shuttle changes. I wanted to cry when they dropped it from the line up. The superlites do something funky at the end of the turn that I just dont care for. The Senate C is also a pretty good ski but could use some updating. I don't know what share of the market skiers like us make up but the current products for developing skiers aren't the best they could be.

[gregy]

I've had one friend that is a 28off skier tried a Prophecy and struggled with it and another that skis on one. Watching them it seems to me that the ski is fairly sensitive and takes good form.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

The Prophecy is the only high-end ski I've ridden, so I can't comment on its skill requirement compared to other top skis, but I know the Senate (along with my old Connelly V) is significantly more stable. But they are designed that way and that was expected. The Senate definitely does not have the same thrill factor, but I'm hoping it will help me progress better. I don't know for sure if I made the right decision, but I suppose I'll get a better understanding of that next season.

 

I am curious if others have made a similar "downgrade" move and if it helped them. I'm mid-40s and don't heal as fast as I used to and I have never been very athletic (relatively slow reaction time hurts me in the athletic pursuits), so stable and forgiving seems like it should trump thrill ride at this time.

[OldboyII]

@TallSkinnyGuy very nice survey,

in any sport we amateurs often uprgade our equip to the level which we cannot handle.

There are lot of pro & contra for going one level down. It is very personal.

I am very beginer, only free skiing.

I upgraded my HO Triumph to Goode XT and felt as you say like on banana peel. Little by little I got used for new ski and started to have fun of its agility. Couple weeks later I decided to go back to Thiumph just to compare skis. It felt increadibly stable, like on solid ground. And I had... a hardest fall in my ski life (it is on my pic.).

Old ski made me too relaxed and over confident.

Sinse then I put Thiumph in far corner and ski only XT, trying to do best.

In my humble opinion if we climbed on our highest heel, the next our target should be another higher heel...

 

Not like powerlifter who removed few kilos from his barbell and enjoys ease of life )

[DanE]

From what I have seen with beginners (kids mostly) skiong on high end skis that is slightly too big yields better results than skiing on beginners skis.

Beginners or entry level skis (wide skis)are easier to get up on and to get a feel for skiing on one ski.

As soon as a skier clears the mini course and gets a couple of buoys in the regular course I always see rapid improvement when they try a high end ski that is too big according to size charts (even considering slow speeds).

Main factor being the high end skis does better crossing the wakes than wide skis, beginning skiers aren't supposed to crank out big turns anyway so it doesn't really matter that the don't use the skis to their potential.

[wilecoyote]

I was on a Senate, and really liked the ski, then it was stolen and I managed to pick up a Quest for a good price. I was looking for another Senate, but the price was too tempting on the Quest. I'm a 15 offer PB 4@52K. When I got the Quest I was still only making a full pass at 46K very occasionally. I fell in love with the ski right off the dock. I'm not sure I ski better with the Quest but it certainly isn't too much for me at all. I think it depends on which high end ski we're talking about as to whether it'll be too much for us. (Beginners)

[thager]

They can always be detuned.

[chris55]

@TallSkinnyGuy I like your post and it is nice to know there is other skiers learning the course. But to give you hope I am 59 old and I started the slalom seriously last year after a 13 years break and only free skiing before. I was skiing with an old high end O'Brien Mapple from 2002. Not very stable ski and I was looking for a mid size ski. I could not fine one here in Geneva (Switzerland) and I had an opportunity to get a Mapple T2 and after 2 sets only I felt I had a rocket like you said and I loved it. I got only 3 sets with this ski and I ran consitanly 15off (of course...) at 30mph going to 32mph. Before I was struggling at 30mph and I had to work much harder. So I think if you have someone who can give you some good coaching and be sure that your high end ski is tune for you, it is worth the try. Just need to find a good and safe position on the ski for avoiding big falls. Last but not least.....if I could run the course at34mph at 38"off (just kidding) I don't need to change my ski since Cory Vaughn just ran 1@43.....