PP Zbox experience

[Chef23]

Does anyone have experience with Zbox on a throttle cable boat and how it compares to ZO. I am thinking about putting it on my 2002 Malibu RLX which has Stargazer on it already. One of my ski partners is thinking of upgrading from PP Classic on a similar boat if it will get closer to a ZO pull.

[jhughes]

I think it's a good system and for the price it's an amazing option vs. the alternative. We have it on our personal "family" boat, a 2000 SN GT40 and it skis fine. The major difference to me is that on short setups you really have to drive it smoothly up to the engagement point in order to not over or under-compensate going into the course. Driver input is really really key. You cannot just hammer the throttle down and expect the boat to instantly compensate like you can with ZO. Once it's engaged and running it gets really good ball times generally. Pretty impressive considering what it is trying to accomplish.

 

The GT40 is so torquey that my 2000 feels very strong and a bit stiff to ski behind with Zbox, but again it's not that different/bad. Our club boat is a new TXi every year and I go back and forth between that and our boat all the time so I'm pretty qualified to speak on this topic. I've had a situation the past couple years where I have to train for a late fall tournament behind my 2000 because the club boat has been pulled for the year and I've had no problems in the actual tournament.

[skihart]

I have it on my 04 MC throttle cable boat. It is pretty darn close to ZO but still not ZO. I ski on C1 at my lake and C1 on a 200SN in tournaments and don't find it that different a pull. Its a much better approximation than just skiing Stargazer for sure. IMHO it's worth it.

[brody]

I have an 01 rlx. I have zbox on it. I go back and before it and ZO with no problem generally same scores. I know guys on here will argue they are way different but I'm not sensitive to change. It you ski both frequently you should be able to find settings that minimize the difference. I ski into 38@34 mph fwiw

[DanE]

A bit finicky to get set up well but it can be done. Not ZO but as close as you can get without actually do a true ZO upgrade.

[MISkier]

If you have StarGazer already calibrated so that it is running well, adding ZBox should be a good idea. For your friend upgrading from PP Classic, the first step is to tune StarGazer well.

[dchristman]

Definitely worth it if you already have Stargazer and your planning on keeping your boat for a while. It's close enough to ZO for me. The only real finickiness we see is that you need to back off to disengage it if you spin, otherwise it gets confused and comes in real hot and then slows dramatically to make up the time. You also don't want to bury the throttle on the pullout and let it go - you need to back it off a bit before reaching speed and let the system get it up to speed.

[303Skier]

I have in on my 94' MC 190 and I hate it. Doesn't come close to ZO. I had to go back to classic. Could be my boat that's the issue.

[mikegile]

We installed it on a 99 Nautique that was running great with stargazer. Our whole crew got worse to the point of wanting to quit the sport. I took it out and all was good again.

 

I took the same z-box and installed it on my DBW 197 TT MC and it works great.

[Marco]

I've got one in my '01 Malibu, and to me the pull feels very similar to my ski partners 200 with ZO. My scores are the same behind both boats.

[Wish]

So this interests me a great deal as it is an option I may have. Our set ups are spin in and short but doable. ZO boats on the lake have had no problems. Spoke with a couple reps at PP and explained my situation and as one would expect, they spoke highly of their product, expressed very recent changes that overcome the racing past set point and seemed confident I would have no issues. All the while willing to work though any problems. If the system did not work to my satisfaction, full refund. That part I liked. Also spoke with @Goode skier as he has had extensive experience with the system, installed it in several boats and moves back and forth between ZO and ZBox. The opinion I felt pushed me somewhat closer to trying this was him saying of the ZBox boats he has been behind, the GT-40 was hands down the best pull of the bunch. But still fearful of short set ups with spin ins and the need for a very accurate diver and excessive tinkering with settings to get it right. Even though it is far far less then a ZO conversion (simply not in the cards for me) it is still a large investment that could prove to be frustrating from some of the opinions here. What I'd like to hear is opinions of ZBox owners that have the absolute latest and greatest version to know if any of the complaints have truly been addressed or are the reps at PP just blowing smoke.? I would not mind at all if PP could even chime in if that's even possible @Horton in letting them know it is a discussion on BOS that may interest them.

[rodltg2]

I really considered zbox for my 99 nautique. But after reading threads here about difficulty setting it up I decided against it . My pp classic seems pretty good. But in tournaments Last year I felt zero off was an easier pull. If I end up keeping my boat I will likely not change a thing. But still have my eye out for a newer ZO boat.

[dchristman]

I have firmware 8.05. I have not seen a newer version mentioned anywhere.

[Fine409]

I have 8.004. I asked PP last year if there was anything newer and they said 8.006 was current but didn't necessarily say it would make that much of a difference to update it when I asked...

 

 

"We added the ability to switch over to the "simple slalom" mode available in the Wake Edition system, and made it a bit easier to move around between the various slalom modes. But there were no technical changes as far as the functionality of how the GPS Slalom mode works.

 

Aaron Adams"

[Bdecker]

@Chef23, one of our members has it on his 97 nautique, I'm sure we could coordinate a test ski. After convincing him to do it, I never did ski his boat last year... I have had good results on my DBW Mastercraft.

[Chef23]

@Bdecker I would be interested in how quickly it settles down in a short setup with a throttle cable.

[Bill22]

@Chef23 I am very interested in this discussion. I have the same boat as you and just bought the StarGazer upgrade. I didn't know that some were not happy with Zbox compared to just StarGazer. My plan was to get Zbox next year after I have any bugs worked out of SG.

[jcamp]

@Chef23 I got Zbox over the winter and will install it as soon as we get a course in the water in the next week or two. Come on up and try it out. At one site we'll have quick set ups and could certainly re-create one at the other.

[Bdecker]

@Chef23 - let me know when you want to make the trip north

[Chef23]

@Bdecker I am pretty jammed through next weekend but maybe the following weekend. @jcamp it is a long ride to you guys and I am sure the water is still very cold.

[prettig]

Response LX (2006), throttle by wire with z-box: almost the same as ZO.... really nice (already a few years skiing with it).

 

Buddy: SN 196 from 2003: cable.....due to cable a bit less responsive, but still very good. Settle down is a lot slower ...... so for short setup....you have to test !

 

Ski behind these boats and 2 x SN200, both with ZO (single and dual puck). So can compare.

 

[Wish]

What yr did each manufacture go to DBW?

[keithh2oskier]

I think it was 2006 @Wish

[prettig]

@wish 2006-2007 for most (but not all already had ZO from factory......so you need to check if possible, you might need more modifications!)

[escmanaze]

I have z-box on my 97 SNOB. It's doesn't have the GT-40. It has the pro-ski 5.7. I have turned my z-box off because it was giving me too much grief. To be fair, I'm sure I didn't sit and tinker with it as long as I should have, but frankly, that's not the reason I'm in this sport. I suppose it depends on the type of person you are, but if you are like me and you don't want to spend a lot of time tinkering and tuning, forget it.

[dchristman]

@chef23 are you happy with the way your Stargazer works now (other than it not being ZO emulation)?

 

@bill22 Maybe I missed it somewhere - I have not seen anyone reporting here that they had Stargazer, liked the way it worked, and then upgraded to Zbox and had problems.

 

@escmanaze did you upgrade directly from PP to Zbox, or did you transition through Stargazer? What version firmware?

 

For the record, I upgraded from PP first to Stargazer (I think it was version 8.02). We often had issues and would end up running in classic mode. Then I upgraded to Zbox with firmware 8.05 and it's been pretty reliable since. We didn't do a lot of tinkering with it. 2000 MC PS 190 with LT-R and throttle cable.

 

@OB1 came and skied behind it last year and I believe he said he had never skied behind a boat with Zbox prior to that. He skied well into 38 and didn't express any complaints about the pull.

 

 

[escmanaze]

I'm not sure. I bought the boat with zbox already on it. I should check on the firmware. If I'm not up to 8.05, then I'm sure I ought to upgrade.

[sgregg]

Couldn't be happier with Stargazer/ZBox in our '98 SN/GT40. No tinkering required other than running with a smart-timer/magnets

[Bill22]

@dchristman read the next two post after your first post on May 10 by 303Skier and Mike Gile, "I hate it" & "Our whole crew got worse to the point of wanting to quit the sport."

 

This is only two opinions out of many positive Zbox comments. I do ski some short setups once in a while (we put the portable in different spots depending on the wind). I will try to switch SG back to classic mode if on a short setup.

[dchristman]

@bill22 Oops - I must have a bad spot in memory or selective reading :) .

[Chef23]

@dchristman my Stargazer is pretty good. You need to pay attention on pulling someone out of the water as it will overshoot the speed but assuming the driver does that it seems good.

[skibumm]

Have gone from classic to Stargazer to Zbox. Each time was an improvement. Is it ZO? No but its pretty close and it does not have an impact on my scores when I ride behind a ZO boat. To me it is a solid upgrade from stargazer.

[Bdecker]

@chef23 - bad news on the test ski, apparently the 97 Nautique was sold over the winter... Come ski our carbon pro, it works amazing for short sites!

 

@wish- DBW was widely adopted in 06, but the 05 prostar had it. I think they were the first. We have an 05 tournament team 197 with zbox and it skis great.

[RPT]

We have a 2001 Malibu response and I am very pleased with the way it works with the Z box. Having said that I Skied behind a 2015 prostar and 2016 200 (both amazing) and a fly by wire throttle is always going to react faster. Depending on your boat you may need a stronger return spring.