A Question For Radar Skis ?

[Stevie Boy]

Hi Radar, could please give the answer to one question regarding the 2016 Lithium Vapor, why did you move the placement of the binding inserts ?

The reason I ask is I have seen people having to elongate the slots on their bindings to get them into stock position, in my case I use d3 Leverage have done for years and do not want to change, there is not enough material to elongate the front slots on my binding, effectively preventing me from purchasing one of you skis, without making up a auxiliary plate, which is awkward for the leverage binding because of the shape of the plate.

Was there a technical reason for this ?

 

[Stevie Boy]

@skibrain thanks but unfortunately the Leverage does not really have that, also the footbed is moulded onto the plate, really like the Radar but might have to look at the D3 skis, My original 2015 Vapor got trashed by the airport people, the replacement I brought just doesn't feel or ski the same, trying various settings at the moment but the ski isn't working on my home lake, I can't quite understand whats going on with it, would have brought the 2016 if it wasn't for the binding issue.

 

[Jordan]

@Stevie Boy why not use velcro with your current binding...then you could place it anywhere .

[gregy]

I had problems with T factors before on other skis. Their pattern is the same but its not the same in respect to the boot location. Plus people seem to be going further forward than original #s.

[Stevie Boy]

@Jordan I was an aircraft engineer, Velcro is not in my vocabulary.

@gregy, problem with the radar and leverage binding you can not get the binding back enough approx 3/16

I am trying not to be negative if the binding plate was not cut a way at the front I could extend the slots, but alas this is not a option.

[eleeski]

You can go off the hole pattern max pretty easily. Use an oversized washer for the screw and block the front of the washer with something as thick as the plate. The big washer will nicely hold down the binding. Go try it.

 

If you like the setting and want it to be permanent you can use something easy to tap as the washer (aluminum - I haven't tapped G10 but.?) and cut some threads to bolt the extender to the plate. Glue the block on the front so it stays in place.

 

Of course, Duallock (not velcro, OK) should be an option - too many people use it successfully. And consider different bindings, at least as a demo (Radar boots rock!).

 

Eric

[gregy]

Suppose you could use a complete adapter plate that is tapped down. Reflex or Denali plate. Or make your own.

[Horton]

@Stevie Boy are you 100% sure about this.

 

The front 6 holes are standard across all brands.

 

The back holes on the back binding is a notorious problem between brands of skis.

[Stevie Boy]

@horton afraid so, when the 2016 came out I got one, great ski, couldn't get the binding in position when the Pro I was skiing with called a Radar person, he confirmed that they had re-positioned the binding inserts, the ski felt great apart from jittering on the offside turn, very unsettling, we played with the fin a bit but it didn't help I put it down to the bindings having to be 3/16 or more fwd because I could not get them back far enough.

Because I was there to ski I did not want to persist and spend my whole holiday messing around with a ski, so I returned it and got my money back, shame I really liked it apart from not being able to set it up properly

If somebody has D3 Leverage bindings on the 2016 I am willing to be proven wrong, did I have a one off ?

Will have a look at @eleeski idea could work, or though reluctant to buy a ski not knowing the outcome.

I will not change my binding arrangement, it has served me well.

[Stevie Boy]

@horton to clarify, yes the hole pattern is fine but where the six holes are positioned on the ski is what stops you getting the leverage binding into position, distance from tail.

I would be thrilled if you could prove me wrong.

[Andre]

So what pattern does Radar use for the backboot ?

HO style?

Have a ski on order and would like to know if my HO style rtp plate will fit...

My 2010 Strada is HO style...

[gregy]

That's the same problem I had putting T factors on a Strada. What size ski are you on. I'm on a 67 vapor. I've been back as much as 29 3/8. I'm now at 29 7/8. The 2016 Vapor skis great with boots forward.

[Jody_Seal]

Here is my D3 binding on a 16 Radar.

 

[Stevie Boy]

@Jody_Seal seal it's the front binding I have issues with not the Back

 

@gregy 67" I couldn't get the 29" 3/4 stock the furthest back I could get was 29" 15/16

[skialex]

@Stevie Boy I have mounted Leverage boot to a 2016 Vapor, for the front boot you only need to drill a 4th hole and file the slots. It's an easy fix and there is enough room on the plate to do that. For the rear I used a Wiley's boot which fits as is but you can also move the rubber back and forth on the plate, you can do that with a D3 RTP and I think you can do it on rear Leverage too.

Not a very big deal and not a good reason stopping from buying the ski!

Alex,

[skialex]

I'm sorry I don't have a better picture, this is from past December, my friend who skied on this now moved to an other brand.

[Horton]

Hmmm @eddie_roberts_jr this is one for you

 

[MrJones]

Or you could contact teammalibu and have him make a plate for your boots with unlimited adjustment that fits everything.

[Stevie Boy]

@skialex , surely there could not have been much metal at the end of the front slot, maybe 1/16 or 3/32 not sure I would be comfortable with that, was that binding a small in which case there maybe sufficient metal there, mine is a medium, It does not leave much I could see it splitting and seperating .

 

The question I was asking is why they moved the insert location, ie: distance from tail

 

Was it Technical or because it seemed like a good idea, or because somebody screwed up ?

 

It seems strange that a with a Product such as Radar that you should have to mess with the binding to that extent, ideally you would want the binding to sit bang in the middle to allow for maximum adjustment either way, surely this would accommodate every binding.

 

I have no problems with my 2015 Vapor

 

Let me state this, this is not intended to put anybody off, Radar skis are a great product and I truly do like their product, I just find it a little frustrating.

 

If there Inserts were placed the same as the 2015 I would have no issue at all, do they intend to do anything about it for 2017.

 

At the end of the day it is customer feedback, surely they must be interested in that.

 

 

[MattP]

@Stevie Boy both your radar skis are the same size correct?

[Stevie Boy]

@MattP the 2015 I have is a 67" I took the 2016 back got a refund that also was a 67"

I really liked it, I had issues coming into the offside, it was shuddering a fair bit, or though I ran passes it was really un-nerving, we put it down to binding position as fin adjustments were not helping, at the time I was skiing with somebody who has a lot of knowledge and contacts, just couldn't get it sorted in the short space of time I had, wish I had persisted.

 

 

 

 

[Stevie Boy]

#

[Horton]

@Stevie Boy what size 2016 Vapor? What front binding distance could you not achieve?

[SkiJay]

@Stevie Boy what size ski are you on? I've found that many skiers are too far back on the 16 Vapor. This ski works fabulously well with binding-forward setups, and I'd be happy to send you one.

[MattP]

@horton @SkiJay it's a 67"...

He could not get 29 3/4 stock furthest back it would go is 29 15/16.

 

@Stevie Boy where are you measuring ro on the D3 binding?

 

The only reason I asked about ski size was I have had a mislabeled ski size before.

[Horton]

@eddie_roberts_jr !

[skialex]

@Stevie Boy yes Your are right about the insert pattern, I believe that somebody screwed up. To put the leverage at stock I had to file the plate, at least that was the case on 3 early 2016 Vapors 66" and the previous ski was a green 2014 vapor.

Not a big deal though. Maybe now they have fix the issue and that was the case on the early production skis.

Small or medium or any size the plate is always the same size and the distance of the heel is also the same.

The leverage I used was also medium.

Alex

[gregy]

Each to his own, I loved my T-factors. But, within a week of going to Reflexes buoy count increased plus my ankles are thanking me.

[skier2788]

I think they moved the inserts on all the skis. I ski a 68 in. And have had my reflex on several different skis at 30 in. Had to have teammalibu send me a custom g10 plate to mount them on the 16 Vapor at old stock settings.

[Chris Rossi]

@Stevie Boy the binding hole location on radar skis has not changed in 3 years. The issue you are having is that while all ski manufacturers have the same front hole pattern, there is no industry standard for where the boot is mounted on that standardized plate. This is not a radar issue, it just reflects how D3 chooses to mount their boot to the plate. I hope this helps clarify things.

 

 

[Stevie Boy]

@Chris Rossi I have great respect for you as a skier and as a good individual, but I have to disagree I can position my binding on the 2015 with no problems what so ever acheiving stock position and allowing for some movement fwd and aft , something I could not do on the 2016, it was somebody involved with radar development that confirmed that the insert default location had been moved the reason I started this thread was because I wish to continue using Radar skis

 

[Stevie Boy]

I am skiing with somebody tomorrow who has the 2016 , I will measure the dft to the back inserts for the front binding and then measure my 2015, then I will know for sure and can quote the difference if there is any.

[BRY]

"it was somebody involved with radar development that confirmed that the insert default location"

@Stevie Boy If you look at the bottom of a 2016 Vapor is clearly states "Chris Rossi Design" He designed the ski. If anyone would know it would be him. My limited experience with Chris is that if the inserts were moved he would straight up say so. And say clearly and succinctly why from a design perspective.

I have a 68 2016 Vapor and the 30" to 30.25" range is the second and third (middle) hole on my Reflex Medium plate. I slotted out between the second and third so I could be precise with mikro-just. Didn't have to slot to the first or fourth hole, five holes standard on the Reflex plate.

On my 2014 68 Vapor I ran 30.25" to 30.5" and wasn't near edges of the standard hole range. Don't have exactly which hole any more as I sold that plate.

So seems to be in the same spot, 30.0" to 30.5" doesn't even get me to the end holes on medium Reflex plate on a 68" 2014 or 2016 Vapor.

[MickeyThompson]

I have to agree with @Stevie Boy. I had a 2015 66" Vapor with T-Factor front binding ran that in the middle hole=29". Now have a 2016 66" Vapor with same boot in front hole = 29 1/4". Seems to me something has changed.

[Stevie Boy]

@BRY I am not looking for a bun fight, I am a consumer asking a question, I am also a qualified engineer who knows how to measure things, it is pure and simple you take a

 

2015 67 radar lithum vapor and place your bindings in stock position and go ski on it, knowing the your start position is factory 29 3/4

 

You then take a 67 2016 radar lithium vapor place the same binding on the ski and the minimum aft measurement you can achieve is 29 15/16 plenty of movement fwd but nothing aft.

The stock measurement is 29 3/4

 

So you are telling me the inserts are in the same position as the 2015

 

I DON,T THINK SO !

 

 

[Horton]

@Stevie Boy Can you get that ski and measure from the furthest back insert to the tail. I would like to compare with my 2015 and my 2016

[Drago]

Whoa, don't y'alls think It's possible that his one ski is mis-drilled

[DanE]

@Drago Excactly! Or mislabeled, could have been a 68 labeled 67. When I compare a 2015 vs a 2016 they are the same.

[Stevie Boy]

If all the other 2016 67 skis measure up the same as the 2015 67, then that would be fantastic news, it means that I would not be excluded from purchasing Radar skis in the future, if the ski I had was a one off then I apologise to all those at Radar skis for this thread.

[Stevie Boy]

Well I stand corrected, it seems I may have had a one off, I measured the inserts on a 2016 this evening and compared it to my 2015, I was over the moon when I discovered that the measurements were almost identical.

Quite clearly I was unfortunate enough to get my hands a 2016 that had the inserts in the wrong place, for me this is great news as I can continue to ski on Radar, which I consider one of the best skis out there.

 

Radar Apologies for any stress created by this thread, it's a shame that ski got through your quality control, but it happens, have to put that down to experience, In future I will not just walk away from a shop with a ski, without thoroughly checking it out.

[MrJones]

Hate to stir a pot, but "great news as I can continue to ski on Radar"? Would you really not ride a ski because your bindings didn't line up perfectly?

 

I'm just saying, a little Dremmel action, a drill bit and countersink, an oversized washer, some dual lock, just make another plate. etc. It's not that big a deal if you really like any ski to figure a way to get bindings on it.

[bigtex2011]

@MrJones giggle. My kidney stone almost shot out

[Hockdog]

Just ordered a new 68" Vapor Lithium, gonna mount up new T-Factors and I'm glad to hear they will work now, thank you BOS!

[Stevie Boy]

@MrJones I have done all that, but can not be doing with it anymore, I want to bolt my bindings on and go ski and the answer is rather than fiff faff around I would go and ski on something else.

I have seen some awful cobbled up arrangements on skis, if it falls apart when you are abroad you have no chance of replacing it, but if you do not travel a lot I guess you might get away with it.

It is easier to borrow or replace stock bindings etc

[Horton]

I measured a 2015 and a 2016 today. Identical.

[MrJones]

Fair enough. I'm just so old that I remember the day when your ski just came with a flat top. You drilled it and put your bindings where you wanted. Things are much better now for sure, and they should be for what skis cost.