Announcing "The Edge One" binding system

[Horton]

http://www.edgewaterski.com

[Chef23]

Looks like still a Silveretta release. Wasn't JT a long time FM guy? When I was down there a few years ago they were doing a lot of playing around with Bondo on the bottom of the boot.

[aupatking]

I was down there a little while back and he was playing around with several different boot systems/setups. That Edge setup really looked like a well put together product. The boot/plate interface is totally rock solid. It's interesting for sure.

[Deanoski]

just saw this on Fb skiing in motion

[Horton]

@Deanoski almost got a Panda.... I moved your post into this thread.

[ral]

I do not like a lot the front part. I believe thin protruding metal in a ski is not ideal.

[thrix]

I used to jump on every single new binding system that was coming out. I learned my lesson the hard way. I have skied on them all, but bondings is not an area I want to experiment anymore. This system looks promising, but I'll wait and see.

[Glock]

So @thrix, since you have tried them all, what are you skiing on today?

[thrix]

Reflex with thick intuition liners and R-style rear.

[EFW]

I like that toe release. Looks really safe.

[thrix]

I like it too, but I have a few ??? in my head.

How easy is it for this thin piece of metal to bend? If it bends it bends big/visibly? or is it slightly deforming with every set and then one fine day you find yourself in a beautiful pre-release situation? How fast does that day come?

In other words, how robust is the product and how do we know it? How many people and for how long have tested it?

I read that the plastic part is 3D printed. Hmm, unless they have a kick ass super expensive printer the polymers used in 3D printing are not super durable.

Bottom line, I am sceptical liek I am with all new binding systems.

[Waternut]

Cool idea but it's hard to get behind something that's almost a direct copy of the Reflex design, uses cheaper/inferior 3D printing over carbon fiber and costs more. Don't get me wrong, 3D printing is awesome but let's face it, it's not as durable as aluminum and not as strong as carbon fiber. I don't think bending the toe piece is really a concern but sliding over the ski like I've done several times doesn't look friendly with either the toe piece or all the 3D printed edges and corners.

 

If it was $300, I'd probably tell people looking for a new binding to consider it over Reflex if price was a factor. As it stands though, I can't see any reason why anyone would want to spend $495 when you can get a tried and true Reflex for as little as $383 and the mac daddy version from Reflex for $466.

 

Last but not least...I feel like HO has come up with some cool and interesting concepts in their high end bindings over the last 5+ years but I also feel like they've all been a bit half baked with more gimmick and less engineering logic.

[Than_Bogan]

Barely on topic, but today it's possible to 3d print stainless steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber. It's early days, but "additive manufacturing" will be a huge part of the future and should not be assumed to be an inferior method.

[Horton]

Just a darn promo video. JT is a smart guy. Looking forward to seeing the hardware.

[gregy]

Looks a lot like Fluid Motion bindings including the toe piece. Which JT was associated with previously as someone else brought up.

[OldboyII]

At the moment it looks like entirely garage production.

Though it is not a bad idea - show prototype and collect opinions.

Crowdsourcing for free ;)

At least much better than empty teaser.

My 1 cent: As a toe loop I'd like to see something made of kevlar fabrics - flexible & reliable.

[BraceMaker]

That bar should be fine. FM uses aluminum in theirs this is stainless. Maybe could use a rolled edge.

 

3d printing boot bases and molded heel cups are just crutches due to lack of a true 'made for waterski' boot. Same with the various stickers and logos all of the companies rivet onto the shells.

 

Once someone gets around to having shells tooled up specific to our sport it will be a flat plate with low profile catch.

[DmaxJC_ski]

I checked it out first hand yest at the Canadian open, talked to JT about it for 30 min, looks really good, and one thing he did say was for him and most people is being comfortable and "safe" is first and foremost, knowing it will release when required. He's pretty excited about it and sounds like there is more to come. Not to mention in the prelims he came off the dock at 38 in a 8-10 mph tailwind and ran it like a boss,then went on to 1 1/2 at 41.

[MAD11]

JT been pounding this for quite awhile without any failures. Not sure I would worry about the quality of the end product too much. Can't get a guy who will put it through the paces anymore then him and be straight with people about the result. The toe strap seems to be an improvement to the reflex bar in my opinion. Spreads the load evenly over more area instead of just three small contact points, which over time wear and stress the shell. I have thrown out two of them in the past due to cracking in the front.

[fox197]

I have faith the end product will be top notch. I spoke to JT about 4 years ago when I was at sunset lakes getting some coaching and at the time he was helping design HOs bindings. Exos were the top line HO back then and I still love mine.

[Deanoski]

Pic from nationals Surprised there's not. More Chat on this new boot

[lcgordon]

Seems to be pretty close to the reflex. Looks a bit flimsy too from the front buckle. I like the looks of it tho. Black is cool.

[mmosley899]

Looks like a Valo skate boot.

[BraceMaker]

Agree - the shiny bits and the sole plate cut outs do match that pretty well. The video version has the plate on the side, which I'm not seeing in that photo - I believe valo shells have two holes for the plate.

[Wish]

The good..flimsy at front buckle means ball of foot gets pressed down into sole with buckle..hopefully. The not so good..tall cuff and I bet the it's forward travel tightens as it is being pressed forward shifting loads to shin bone rather then ball of foot. But all just guesses.

[ForrestGump]

The biggest problem with Reflex is the amount of play between the boot and ski. No matter what, I've always felt movement side to side. Even with the set screws tight. This takes care that. The toe strap has been used for years without issue. Much better than the toe bar that deforms the boot shell over time. I like this.

[wtrskior]

with the fixed plate; can you cant the boot now?

[thrix]

Is this the exact same system HO will put on the market by end September?

[Drago]

@wtrskior you should cant the whole plate

[GaryWilkinson]

Did I read correctly that this will release from the toe? Backward twisting fall?

[Jordan]

I don't think it will release in that fashion.

[wtrskior]

@Drago based on the photo above the plate won't can't. I don't can't my front boot much but I have gone about 1/3 of an inch before.

[Drago]

I guess you're talking about rotating

[Horton]

I got to look at the Edge Binding at Bell Acqua last weekend.

 

First of all - the boot looks GOOD. In the pics it looks kind of bulky but in person it is not bulky at all. Best part is it is softer than most other plastic shells. I really do not think stiffer is better at least up in the cuff.

 

When I heard that the base was 3D printed I thought that was odd. Well JT set me straight about that. He said 3D printing is less expensive than hard tool molds. I would have never guessed.

 

The front hoop looks really good as it is but JT told me they are going to rubberize it.

 

JT also talked to me about additional R&D that is going on. He showed me bits and prices he wants to improve. He is really working hard to build the best possible binding product.

 

[Horton]

@OB1 I like the Reflex stuff a lot. Edge licensed the patent and release. They are offering a different boot and trying to improve bits and pieces of the product. Basically taking the industry standard binding and trying to make it better. Seems like a really good thing for the skiing public.

[Wish]

Wonder when someone will build a boot that was not formally an inline skate boot that uses snow ski buckles. I guess Connelly did briefly.

[ozski]

@Wish - Radar Vapor :smile:

[Wish]

@ozski hard shells my friend..hard shells.

[wtrskior]

@wish HO did as well with the EXO.

[DanE]

The EXO boot itself was a great boot, never felt good to stand so elevated from the ski though. Hmm... maybe get an EXO boot, cut off the plateaus to get the bottom of the sole down on a plate then Reflex it to that plate?

[ALPJr]

Still wonder why there are lace eyelets in the boot?

[Wish]

@ALPJr that's what I mean. That is a inline skate boot just modified with snow ski buckles. That's most likely a vert skate boot.

[BraceMaker]

@ALPJr same exact reason that the 3D printed base is used.

 

Making a shell means injection molding. You need a mold for RT/LT and each shell size.

 

That's where the costs live. Those shells are expensive molds to make. You need to make how many thousand shells to justify the cost.

 

Roller blades are essentially the closest sport with a reason to mold them, and most roller blades are laced up.

 

 

[PT Mike]

@BraceMaker interesting info about the hardshells. What's the deal with the Powershells? Are they manufactured by Goode?

[spicoli]

You can buy most of them at the local sporting good cheaper and take the boots off

[Wish]

All my hard shells since 2001 have been off the shelf roller blade style skates. Best pair to date has been a garage sale find for $5. Lots of wealed blades have been chucked in the trash over the yrs.

[Horton]

@spicoli you're telling me you can go get some off-the-shelf boots, engineer and purchase the 3D printing for the base, source the release mechanism and machining for the front hoop and all of those small bits and pieces for less?

 

I'll bet you're pretty nice bottle of Scotch that you can not do all that and have a thoroughly tested and refined product.

[Horton]

@PT Mike All currently available plastic shells are sourced from other sports.

 

All you guys

I do not know why any of you guys care that companies like Edge (or Reflex or Goode) are leveraging product from other applications. They either ski good or they do not. Lace holes? Why would you ever care? Would you pay 3x as much for boot designed specifically for skiing? Do you think it would be better?

 

Reflex boots are rental ice skate boots. They ski good so why care. PowerShells are were designed as inline skate boots or similar something like that.

 

Before BallOfSpray I tried to start a hard shell business. Boots for a Reflex style system are incredibly hard to source. Sure you can to go your local WalMart and buy cheap skate boots but there is a lot more to it than that. Ideally you need the sole to be way stiffer than the cuff and then you need the shell to fit right with liners that skiers want to use. You also need the shell to not be too stiff around the top of your foot so it conforms when you buckle it down. If the sole is too soft it changes the release characteristics. And so on...

 

Maybe you can hand wave all this and make yourself a system but to sell to the skiing public is a whole other level.

 

FYI I personally WRECKED my front ankle in my R&D version of my system. I do not recommend any mechanical release system to a skier who does not understand how it works and would very much discourage anyone who thinks then can cobble together some random parts and be safe. 10 years later it is clear what I did wrong but it is a lesson that come with experience.

[BraceMaker]

Miss @Brewski sometimes...

 

Eyelets are largely only an issue because they are crap steel and rust. Same with cuff pivot bolts which are truly a horridly weak link in these products.

 

FM used power slide and USD shells.

 

If you look at Europe where rollerblading is still popular you can find whole varieties of shells.

 

Ask yourself why the boots don't sit flat - the chassis which hold the wheels are higher at the heel to put you in a skating knee bend. And in many of these there are sole plates between the boot and chassis which are wear items for grinding rails.

 

As to who makes the shell Goode uses... Dunno. Typically only really low end skates use buckles instead of laces and a cuff buckle. And high end are moving towards a frame and a boot. Probably a trip to alibaba and a minimum quantity of a few thousand

 

 

[Bulldog]

My old powershells are a bauer boot.