Radar Binding Quality & Customer Service

[H20_2_Ski]

I have been skiing on Radar ski's for 6-7 years and have been a huge fan of their ski's. Recently, I went out for a post-work run and blew out the heels of both of my vector boots. I have probably only skied on this ski 30 times. The ski has always been dried/stored indoors and taken care of very well. I can understand that sometimes product fail, but the response I received from Radar customer service really turned me off. It seems that the manufacturer doesn't want to offer any support other than their response below.

 

"I would highly recommend our new Vectors. As we have changed the construction along the sides to strengthen both the inside and outside of the boot along with the rear end, where you have had troubles...."

 

I then sent in images to show the unusual break down of the boots explaining that I felt it was a true defect.

 

Has anyone had blow outs like this and received support from Radar? I can't believe that this is a standard response in the industry. I guess I will have to start looking towards other manufacturers.

[wtrskior]

I've found they are among the best in the industry.

 

Pics? What is the model year of bindings? Products carry a 1 year warranty typically.

 

I have 2 pairs of the second run of RS1 bindings. 2009 I believe and they are far from worn out. Probably the best single waterski product I've ever bought and they were a game changer to boot

[storm34]

Sorry to hear about your mis fortune, hopefully they work with you on a replacement.

 

I put a lot of passes on my Radar bindings before they gave out.... lasted much longer than my previous HO bindings. Ended up patching them together with an old turn buoy and some zip ties to get through regionals and have replaced the front with a new Profile binding. If you end up having to buy new go for the Profile boots....you'll love them!

 

 

[brooks]

@H20_2_Ski Sorry to hear that your boots have blown out on you. I think many here can attest that our warranty and customer service at Radar is some of the the best in the business. Will you email me at brooks@squareoneco.com and I will see if we can come to a resolution. Thanks

 

Brooks

[LeonL]

I seems by their own comments that they recognize a problem in construction. Hopefully @brooks can help you.

[cragginshred]

My 2011 Vapors lasted 5 years before the front boot (rear portion blew out) and the back boot is still going strong.

 

My only request is every year they should be all black to go with every ski!

[eddie_roberts_jr]

The customer service person you talked to should have transferred you to our actual warranty manager. The response would have been more favorable and you would probably have replacements on the way. Please call back and ask for Trevor, our warranty mgr.

[H20_2_Ski]

Thank you for all the responses!!! I have sent an email to Brooks and look forward to working with them!

[WaterSkier12]

The Radar crew is all top notch! Sully, ERJr, my man Roscoe, Brooks, KC and all the others we don't know!

 

[gt2003]

They took 100% excellent care of me. I have no doubt they will do the same for you!

 

[Zman]

Nothing but the best customer service, the few times I have needed it.

[Zman]

Another example of customer service. @eddie_roberts_jr provided some advice on a new ski for my wife. About a month later I get a pm on here from Eddie, "how's your wife liking the new ski".

Like, who does that? Well, I guess he does. :)

[freeski41]

@storm34 , I bought the same Radar Vapor boots in 2012, broke my leg in 2014 (Not ski related). I had about 10 ski rides on the 2012 ski setup with Radar bindings. I skied once in 2015, barely, as the broken ankle was still not 100%. In 2016, I bought an all new Radar Vapor Lithium setup, with new Vapor bindings. The new 2016 ski has not been working for me, so I tried to go back to my 2012 setup, Radar Vapor bindings and HO S2 ski. While trying to install the boots, one of the bindings ripped out. I couldn't believe how poor quality the bindings were? Warranty is one year, some people live in the north and that could mean limited ski rides per year. I called and spoke to Trevor in warranty and I was told I had to buy new boots for $250 bucks, to replace my rarely used 2012 bindings. I think I paid about $550+ for those bindings that I used 10 times? I'm not sure I can afford to keep buying Radar products?

 

 

 

 

[cragginshred]

Green 2014 Vapor boots are currently $100 ea from Perfski. I had those same boots and they lasted 4 full seasons skiing 3 days a week for 8 months out of the year (Cali season) before the rear rubber ripped.

[freeski41]

@cragginshred , thanks for the tip...but I think the best route would be to buy the new bindings for $250....

[ski6jones]

I've had really good luck with the RS1/Strada/Vapor bindings. I had the same trouble with a lightly used set of Strada's I bought on ski-it-again. Buyer beware on used gear I guess. I've never had any trouble buying last years models on clearance. Been on the RS1, Strada and now Blue Vapors, Great setup. The only problem with them is once something integral to the boot fails you need a new boot. No replacing parts. On the other hand mine usually last a few years before a major failure so durability is decent.

 

[UWSkier]

I can say with certainty that their warranty response has a customer for life in me...

[Steven_Haines]

Nothing lasts forever! If you're in warranty or even a ways out, Radar usually takes care of their customers! They get it!

Radar Rules!

[freeski41]

Warranting a seasonal waterski product for one year is not standing behind your product. IMHO. There are many people who only ski 5 - 8 times a year. Due to circumstances such as geographic location, or simply not getting the opportunity to ski much because of work, boat availability, weekend skiers etc. With that said, a new product, purchased in the winter at a boat show, and gets a handful of uses, goes out of warranty by the next boat show, then fails apart the next year? That should not be acceptable in this industry.

 

In my case, I don't think Radar warranty is doing me any favors. I paid lots of money for a brand new binding system that lasted a ridiculously short amount of time. Kudos to those who had their Radar bindings last multiple seasons. Mine didn't. Heck, even the warranty dept. told me the bindings I bought were substandard build quality and the new ones were much better... Great!! Did they tell me that when they took my $500+ bucks?

 

I had an O'brien Sixam ski, I skied the crap out of that ski, sold it to a guy and and it broke in half on him the first time he skied. The ski was out of warranty. I called O'brien and they replaced the ski without question, dropped shipped the guy a new ski. I was actually quite shocked, I didn't expect that. But in hind site, they stood behind their product regardless of warranty time tables.

 

Like I said earlier, I have also recently purchased the 2016 Radar slalom package, but going forward, this product/expense experience will effect my future purchases for sure.

 

 

 

 

[wtrskior]

@freeski41 wahhhhh

[eddie_roberts_jr]

I talked to Trevor, our warranty manager today and he says he offered you our buy back where you could get a new pair of 2017 Carbitex Vapor boots for 175.00 each. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal for your boots which came out 5 model years ago.

[freeski41]

@eddie, considering the boots were rarely used, I don't see that as a good deal, sorry. I'll consider the offer, but by admittance of your own warranty dept, the binding quality was poor.

 

 

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@freeski41 The 2016 Vapor ski didn't work for you? I think that is the first time I've heard that on this forum. Maybe because it has been praised so much that people who didn't click with it are too afraid to state that, or maybe you are the only one on the planet who doesn't like the ski. Anyway, bummer about your bindings, but it seems like Radar is being pretty generous with their offer, and it seems a lot to expect a one-year warranty to be extended so far beyond the warranty period regardless of actual use.

[ozski]

Currently I'm on Vapor front Vector open toe rear and although the back rubber is a bit of an issue with the older vector its dead easy to do a repair when it starts to fail. I've had mine for a few seasons now and I'm impressed with the amount of abuse they handle. Thinking back to the days of rubber boots that would tear apart in no time by comparison modern boots are generally really good. As far as putting a warranty on a product that is likely to get a lot of UV exposure I think 1 year is very fair. Consumers will try to take the piss as they say and I think its in everyone's interest that Radar stays in business. Having said all of that my skiing partner who does run into -39 @36 did not enjoy his time on the 2016 Vapor so that makes 2. :)

[Broussard]

I have met a couple of people that didn't like the Vapor, but overall the response has been overwhelmingly good. You'll never please everyone, keep making great products Radar.

[baja]

The rubber parts of a 4 or 5 year old ski boot failed after sitting with little use. Just like rubber windshield wiper blades generally don't last forever even when not used. I have 2012 Strada boots that get about 100 days of skiing per year... They are still in great shape. I leave the liners in when I get out of the boots, I think it saves wear and tear. I will happily take the offer of $175 each for the new 2017 Vapor boots. Seems like a more than fair offer to me for 5 year old boots.

[ToddL]

If only that heal rubber was some how designed like old school overlays... Then, it would just involve replacing the overlay.

[aupatking]

The Radar guys have always stood behind everything I've bought from them. I love my Radar gear.

My ski partner is on the last year Strada boot, which is the same as the first year Vapor boot. For a 3 year old boot, and a guy who puts some abuse on his gear, on an almost daily basis, those boots are top notch.

[cragginshred]

My new 2014 green closeout boots rocked last night. Been a month since I ran a -28 pass and nailed it last night with no slack at 1 ball as a bonus. The Green boots are officially broke in and kicking butt in the course!

[ToddL]

I think there are variables at play... Too many users have reported similar year products with extreme lifespan while others report early failure.

 

The backs of the Strada/Vapor binding shell is a thin rubber product. Rubber is one of those materials which can last forever or become brittle and crumble. Often factors like products which come into contact with the rubber, storage at various extreme temperatures (cold or hot), sun exposure, leaving in the trunk of a car, usage vs. sitting static - all can impact lifespan. Something as simple as using shaving cream as a binding lubricant or not washing sunscreen off hands before handling the bindings could be a factor. I don't know any specifics, and I am not suggesting that those products are themselves risks. However, I am suggesting that the owner of the binding and the products which come into contact, the process used, and usage context all may be more of a factor in lifespan than the material quality or manufacturing.

 

Those backs are key to the safety and functionality of the binding system. They allow an appropriate amount of "give" in harmony with the bungie laces to allow for the liner to release in a significant fall. Without that give, the binding can become non-releasable. With that give compromised by cracks or small tears, the binding can become too lose or release too easily.

[Wayne]

Had a similar failure on a 2012 Vector last month. I figured a 4 year old binding was out of warranty so I just headed to a local Radar dealer. They looked at the boot and said they would have given me a free replacement if it was a 2013. Instead they discounted a pair of 2016s by half.

 

I really think radar is a stand up company. It took some time but they drop shipped me a new ski after the one I had ordered got stomped on by fedex. So I've had 2 positive incidences with their products when the damage wasn't their fault.

[customski]

I've been through Rs1's Strada x 2 and now Profiles and I only ever wear the liners out. And they get used year round.

I rode the 16 Vapor this week and I was very impressed, not that I wanted to like another ski but on stock settings and my bindings I was shocked at how good it was from the first pass.

Biggest problem was reassuring the wife that no I really don't want another ski!

[thompjs]

I'm on my third one now. They rip about once a year. Lucky on the last one, still had 4 days on warranty

[spicoli]

Well I been on rs1,s since they came out me and at least 3 of us never blew 1 out so I got me a 16 vapor (wow so far so good).bought a used 15 vapor boot looked new and rode it 30 passes and blew the back out .well back to the old rs1 .wonder if you could sew it back or is the rubber weak on the newer ones.

[spicoli]

I was looking at my boot I believe a shoe cobbler could sew a new back rubber in has any 1 tried this .it looks repairable I took a razor and slit the material were the rubber is sandwiched got the old sliver of rubber out now I can lay a new 1 in and sew it and reinforce it better .the back rubber really gets twice as thin were they sew it very little material might even cut my own .

[matt_b]

Blew the rear top rubber on my new Vapors over the weekend. Sent an email and within 1 hour Trevor in Warranty responded. As soon as they are in stock, a new pair will be on the way. Awesome service as always.

[Dirt]

Radar Rocks!

Sorry @MS I had to steal your line.

Radar quality and customer service are top notch. If I owned a company making products that contained rubber, I would not warranty past one year. Shaving cream, dish soap with additives, rain x, slime, armor all, uv exposure, heat, cold..too many variables.

[skidawg]

Yes RaDaR ROCKS! I'm very excited for the future.

[spicoli]

I put the old rs1 back on I noticed the rubber was about twice as thick as the blue vapor I blew

[swc5150]

Thread hijack, but a dumb Radar question. How do you loosen the dial on the 2016 Vapor Boa gloves. My wife just bought me a pair, and I'm stumped. Killer gloves though.

[oldjeep]

@swc5150 - just pull up on the dial. Are your hands currently trapped? :smile:

[Jordan]

@swc5150

Pull out the dial that you use to tighten the boa system.

[swc5150]

Thanks guys! Thought I'd never get these things off;)

[S1Pitts]

Just a thought here but the rubber appears somewhat similar material to the latex seals on dry suits only thicker. Has anyone tried using the products available to maintain these seals on the bindings? I know I can double the life of my seals by using theses products.

[H20_2_Ski]

I have to follow up on my initial post. @brooks got in touch with me and went out of his way to help me out. I must say, the customer service was beyond expectation and have gained a customer for life! THANK YOU @brooks!!

[jjackkrash]

My .02 cents, I bought a set of RS-1s when they first came out (how many years is that?) and have used the crap out of them. I am a big fat yoker who is hard on gear. They are still skiable although they look a little battle worn just like they should. I just bought a new set of Vapor Carbitex bindings because I wanted a new set and they looked cool and matched my new ski. I love me some Radar bindings.

[tjones999]

Old thread but if you have read this far you are interested.

 

I have the same issue.

 

I started on RS1 bindings. Those were my first Radar bindings and I loved them... But eventually the rubber around the back cracked and gave up.

 

Went to Vapor bindings. Love the fit and feel but here I am suffering the same fate as my RS1's in way shorter time. And not just one pair, a couple of sets of the green Vapors. Same fate. I have to admit, having these fail when I still have bindings like HO Approach and HO 97's (thats showing my age, some of you were not born then...) that are still going strong had me seriously considering switching. I am used to bindings lasting a LONG time.

 

I am OK with replaceable pars wearing out. Liners fail, buy new ones. But the shell I expect to last...

 

I was shopping for Syndicate hardshells but I decided to talk to Radar first. I contacted Radar using their web form.

 

Heard nothing back.

 

Pretty disappointed.

 

SO I used the form again a couple of weeks later and was pretty blunt, what good is having a "contact us" form if nobody gets back to you after you contact them.

 

Well that lit a fire under someone's butt. I instantly got an email from the person that reads the form apologizing and from Brooks, who has made comments in this thread, wanting to talk to me about the issue.

 

Brooks and I talked on the phone and they are aware there is an issue. Next model year they will use a different material. He explained the current material is TPU and its enemy is long term exposure to water. I admit, I figured sun was going to be the worst enemy so I would typically ski, then bag the ski to protect it from the sun. Great, absolutely the wrong thing to do. Dry it then bag it would have been better. I do 3D printing and TPU is one of the materials you can use for flexible printing and yup, moisture is the enemy. You have to keep it in dry storage when not in actual use 3D printing. The new material is a silicone material according to Brooks. I am optimistic this will be a good solution and I won't have to switch brands after all. They will be available end of August 2019 and Brooks made a reasonable replacement cost offer, not free, but considering mine are a few years old, reasonable.

 

I will try to remember to follow up when I have them, when I have skied on them, and when they fail so we have an idea of how the new material holds up over time...

 

And for reference purposes, my typical season is 30 sets in spring in Florida, 30 sets in fall in Florida and probably 60 sets in the summer at home in Canada... best guess.... Never really counted. And I prefer to leave my liners in all the time. (also great for keeping the TPU wet...) Tried pulling the liners out on exit but find the inner plastic flaps end up folding over and biting into my foot.

 

So in the end, Radar customer support appears to have come through and product development appears to have realized the issue.

[UWSkier]

I have a few buddies who've repaired their bindings with flex tape (you know, that stuff you can tape a boat together with) and gorilla glue. 3 years on since tearing and they're still holding up and even looking pretty good.

[tjones999]

Been there, done that, Shoe Goo, cable ties, inner tube, whatever it takes to get on the water. Yeah it worked... but I have to suspect that the release characteristics change when you cobb up a repair like that... making it easier or harder to come out of the binding in a spectacular crash... and both easier and harder to release can be just as bad in my opinion... I like to believe that Radar has done some thinking about that when they make the stretch rubber part a certain thickness and a certain material with specific stretch characteristics and I know my repairs are seriously lacking science and the testing of my repairs is pretty much "hit it"... And don't think I am not going to see what I can do with my 3D printer and a spool of TPU and an industrial strength sewing machine somewhere down the line as well... "hit it"

[dbutcher]

Radar customer service has been great for me.