Animal versus Edge or Ho hardshell

[chris55]

I just started my ski season even the water is cold (between 48 and 55F) and I just got 2 OTF trying to be more forward on my ski. I have a Animal + RTP RFF 6'2" 167pound and I ski at 32mph going to 34mph and we ski on open lake in Geneva so we don't have glassy water except early in the morning. At every OTF my foot did not come off and my ankle got hurt but not bad enough for stoping skiing. Since I am progressing and I am going to increase the speed if I OTF again, the fall will be harder and the pain could be more serious too.

My question is : I feel I should move to hardshell like HO or Edge for safety reason first and more contact for second. Do you think it is a right or good move or is it too soon ?

What is the difference between HO and Edge knowing Edge is 70.--$ cheaper ?

Thank you in advance for your wise and experience advice,

Chris

[Gar]

Either one will be lord safer than the Animal I say spring for the extra 70 and get the HO.

[Deanoski]

The HO has a better liner! that's the only difference

[Gar]

What about the deal in the back of the boot that steadies the forward ankle move?

[Horton]

@gar what?

[Gar]

Thought I saw something in the rear of the boot that would slow down forward ankle flex ion.

[Horton]

@Gar that is on Reflex

[Horton]

@chris55 I suggest you start another thread and explain how you are "trying to be more forward on my ski". I suspect you might have the wrong idea....

[Gar]

I took it as a safety deal I use the white cuff reflex and started using a hardshell back in 95. Prior to that broke my ankle several times in hard rubber. To me it's been great going to the hard shell from a lot of perspectives safety being a big one. I thought I saw in a product video where there is a mechanism built into the rear of the HO and perhaps the Edge as well that gives a bit more control moving the ankle forward verses the on or off of the Reflex maybe not if so my bad.

[ski6jones]

I remember the same @Gar. As I recall it was a different mechanism to allow ankle flexion but limit forward movement to help engage the release as is accomplished by the strap on the white reflex.

[DW]

@chris55 : I ski on dual Animals and do not have issues coming out of them in a fall. OTF falls tend to be more attributed to body position and technique, as noted by Horton I would focus on the reason for the falls rather than looking towards a binding to cure the issue. Worth the time to search this site for injuries with various bindings, there are pros and cons to each type and specific binding.

 

By the way, I assume you stop at any of the excellent restaurants after a good ski run and order some delicious perch for lunch.

[Kdinger838]

@ski6jones I think you may be referring to "gator mod" look on YouTube

[Glock]

@chris55, myself and a buddy of mine both broke our ankles (talus fracture) in animals do to non release in otf falls. Technique will certainly help, but otf falls happen once in a while. I went to Wiley's and my buddy is on reflex, we both have been injury free for a while now.

[aupatking]

I know what you guys are talking about, I think, but it's not exactly a "mechanism". The boot has a molded "V" in the Achilles area that is it's limiting "mechanism".

Like the guys are saying, and I'm sure you know, it's a form issue leading to the OTF that no boot will fix. I think that's not really your question though.

I broke my talus in a fall that would have been pretty pedestrian, had a not been in a faulty designed boot system. Arguably, you can increase your safety with boot systems but they have their own issues.

You have to understand the system you choose, and do some serious testing or you can severely damage yourself. Possibly worse than what you did in your old system.

 

[ski6jones]

Definitely not Gator Mod. @aupatking found what I remembered.

[Gar]

I'm notorious for bad crashes... Out the front, back sideways etc. I use to not be this way feel like I may be getting back to staying in the proper position. I will just say I've had many very bad crashes with the Swiss/Reflex set up with no ankle or knee injuries. I know it can happen (I just knocked on wood!) but far better than the Conelly HP high wrap I used for years. I tried the Animal loved the feel/support but was afraid of it. I loved the HP's! Still feel the HO is the way to go @Chris55 think you will adjust to it and love it.

[chris55]

Thank you guys:I cannot make it long but I know my OTF is not cause by the binding. My concern and this topic concern the binding issue. And of course what @Horton wrote about starting a new thread regarding "the more forward position" is absolutly right.

@DW of course we have lunch with perch by the lake but the best season for eating them start in september.Then they are mature and tasty.

I come back to you tomorrow. It is late here in Geneva.

[Bill22]

The cold water makes that type of binding stiff and not release as good. When I was using a HO Venom (similar to Animal) once I skied in December, the binding got so stiff I could not get my foot out and had to use soap. I am curious if @DW has seen this problem before.

[chris55]

@Bill22 That is exactly what happened this morning, I could not get my foot out of the binding and I had to use soap to get it out. We still have the water at 52F.

And the water is 90% kind of rough. When I skied this morning I left the binding not too tight and then I could feel my hill kind of lifting at the preturn and I don't like that.

So maybe this is another reason I might go for a hardshell.

I just have to decide which one, Edge or HO ???

Thank's again for all the input and informations

[DW]

@Bill22 @chris55 : Cold weather does affect the release, I have not had one in really cold water, and Animals do get hard to enter/exit when cold (near freezing). I use soap for every entry attempt & can't do it without soap assist, I do have a narrow foot but wear a pretty tight fitting binding. Hardshell with mechanical release system certainly solves that issue. Chris, Good luck choosing a system. There is a learning curve with hardshells and not everybody that tries them is successful. Just something to consider as you get ready to spend your hard earned Swiss Francs.

[chris55]

@DW You are right about spending the money and I cannot even try them on before buying them...Tough decision !

[Chef23]

You can try the HO hard shell before you buy. It has been posted here before that the hard shell has been added to HOs demo program. A

[chris55]

@Chef23 I know that but not in Switzerland. Just the shipping would be close to 80.-- $

[gregy]

I went to reflex for safety which my ankle are so much better. But it also helped my skiing due to better edge control. My ankles usually stayed sore all season. I'd recommend getting on some kind of releasable system.

[StevePops]

@chris55 I was in a similar situation end of last season. Bought the Reflex without the possibillity to test it first. Have not regreted it. Takes a couple of sets to get used to it, but as gregy said, the edge control is much better. And it feels much safer. Join the hardshell people, you will not regret it.

[mmosley899]

@chris55 there is definitely a learning curve when changing to hard shell boots, but there is always a learning curve to any boot change. That is why skiers hate to change boots at all! You do have to try on the shells for comfort, performance is a whole other issue, but one you can adapt to. If you prefer the softer more comfortable fit, all the ski manufacturers are making great soft fit boots that can be used with the MOB system release.