My first BOS coaching session

[escmanaze]

Alright folks, I think I'm ready for my first BOS coaching session. I got out yesterday and ran a 32 mph -15 about as clean as I've ever done it, so if you see me doing things wrong in this video, it is probably because I really do them wrong and not just a fluke.

 

Before getting too nitpicky, keep in mind, I only ski about once a week at best so I don't set my personal bar super-high with my skiing expectations. Nevertheless, I'm sure I'm doing some things wrong that are obvious and maybe easier to correct. Anyway, fire away, let me have it!! :)

 

Thanks

 

 

[Horton]

looks better than @scotchipman.

[escmanaze]

Ha ha ha!!!!

[ToddL]

Try skiing with all of your weight on the balls of your feet, mostly on the ball of the front foot (right). You are a bit "back" on the ski as if you are pressing with your heels. An athlete is ready and in charge when on his "toes". Also, stand a bit taller all of the time. This will help bring your hips just a few more degrees forward. Those two should make that pass even smoother and easier.

[Horton]

@ToddL how does a skier whose center of mass is back get on his toes. Your post almost earned a panda for sounding like 1980's era ski school. Balls of your feet? Seriously?

[gregy]

Looks good. Keep working on the stack. Hips forward, flex ankles. I try to start behind the boat by standing tall with my hips forward and weight biased on my front foot. Then without changing that weighted bias start my pullout. That way when you come up to glide your body is already in the correct position. Seems like your turn in to the gates is a little abrupt. Turn in a little more gradual and make sure you ski you hips to the handle.

[lpskier]

Try skiing on a longer lake. You looked a little rushed entering the course with that short set up. ;-)

[gregy]

I agree with lpskier. I pull out much early for gates and do a more gradual pullout.

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton You knew some forward thinkers in the 80s. First I heard of moving weight to balls of feet was from a couple of folks named Adam in 2015.

[RazorRoss3]

That looks good, I'd try to pullout wider for the gate and take a little more angle through it to start with. A lot of in-course bobbles can be symptoms of the gate rather than things you actually need to fix since they will take care of themselves once the gate is dialed in.

[UWSkier]

The way someone much smarter on the gate than me has explained it is that you should feel almost all the weight on your front foot in your gate. It will feel exaggerated to put that much weight on your front foot, but you're actually very balanced that way. Anyways, start outside the trough with hips up and as much weight on front foot as possible, then just lean (out over your front leg, not back) starting at 1/10 intensity, building up to 10/10 before coming up for the glide. Don't go 10/10 right away or you get sprung up and flatten out, losing speed. Then just let the ski come under and go, staying tall and over front foot.

 

Something I'm still working on, but when you do it right, it makes the whole pass $$$.

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan

I HATE that phrase because for a skier whose stack is broken it is unachievable and unhelpful. "Get on you toes" or "balls of your feet" does nothing to tell the skier what to actually try to do.

I worked a lot of ski school in the late 80 and the early 90 and we told the students a lot of shit that I now know was just wrong and terrible.

 

Furthermore many skiers will try to lift their heel to get on their toes. That is not going to end well. If @AdamCord wants to tell an already advanced skier to get on his toes then I am 99.99999% sure that is different.

[Horton]

@escmanaze read my VERY old BRP article I think there might be some nuggets in there for you

[Wish]

@Than_Bogan I'm with you but I would guess someone might have said that back then. The Adams, for me anyway, explained the why part. The how part I suspect is up for argument depending on how any given skier interprets the how part. But ball of my front foot is where I want to be. My boot is even set up for this...but that's a whole diff thread. A lot of advice on COM forward gets it done. Most are only aware of COM and do not realize they have just added weight to the ball of their foot. But just about all sports movements involve the balls of your feet as key to balance and performance. We just seem to ignore teaching that in skiing. It's taught elsewhere. Just ask any tennis player, or volleyball player or golfer or...........

[Horton]

@Wish Yes yes whatever. We all agree that the end result is center-of-mass forward and wait transferred into the front of your foot. But for a guy who's learning the course telling him to get on the balls of feet is like telling him to "ski more like Nate Smith"

[Than_Bogan]

Fair enough. I don't completely agree, but I see your point.

[MISkier]

3 things that helped me.

 

1. Clench glutes and butt cheeks. Draw them in forward to get your hips up.

2. Chest out to prevent shoulders from slumping forward.

3. Head/vision up. Don't look at your ski or at a low horizon.

 

After that, don't forget the basics of straight arms and slight bend in front knee.

 

My biggest struggles with good body position always start with a lack of confidence and commitment to the pass. As soon as I am tentative about it, my position immediately adapts to match that poor amount of aggressiveness and absent conviction that I will not only run the pass, but completely smoke it. Don't just believe you can do it, know that you can and can do so with authority.

 

[Horton]

I am not making friends today....

 

@MISkier

Clench glutes and butt cheeks. Draw them in forward to get your hips up.

OMG! That is the cornerstone of horror! I told that to hundreds of students back in the day and wish i could give them all a refund today.

 

 

[Wish]

"Yes yes whatever" is so close to a Panda. Let me try harder for one.

 

I didn't say to just tell him to ski on the balls of his feet. Note the "how" part of my statement. Saying move COM forward like Nate would be about the same...useless and counter productive if misinterpreted and allowed to remain that way. COM forward has its own issues of misinterpretation as well as stacked. But to completely ignore the awareness of the balls of your feet or the how can hold a skier back IMHO. It is all connected and yes I would not tell someone with a broken stack to do this. But no the skier does not have to be a advanced skier. Beginner is actually a better place for it as with any sport taught. In the last 6 months I've taken 2 beginning skiers a looooong way by incorporating balls of feet. I was skeptical. Im not anymore. But do agree there has to Be a "how" with any terms tossed out as a suggestion including stack, COM....

[MISkier]

@Horton, what would you say now instead of that (other than straighten back leg)? It needs to be something that engages and aligns the core.

 

Edited: by the way, since I did eventually fix that alignment using that technique, I never had to think about or consciously do it again. I know I don't do it today, now that I know what it feels like to be in the right position. I just go there now.

[JAS]

The one thing that has improved my skiing more than anything was spending 19$ and joining TrainwithTerry.com. Skiing is a package deal, COM, stack,connection, shoulders, fall, edge change,eyes etc..will accomplish nothing alone. Terry's training videos are the best that I have seen. They are short, focused and have given me the mental picture to assemble the puzzle. Watch them over and over until your mind can get ahead of the game. Just my opinion

[Horton]

@wish

"Yes yes whatever" is so close to a Panda. Let me try harder for one.

Is not like a panda. It means yes I agree in principle

 

I am on a tear this morning because when we coach less experienced skiers we really need to think about using words that make sense to them. If you watched me ski and said i was dragging my ass I would know exactly how to fix that but for a new skiers we are wasting our time if we do not pick our words carefully and wisely.

[Horton]

@MISkier It freaks everyone out but I do infact teach skiers to ski with straighter legs. It is the easiest way to get your center of mass forward. If you want to go in the weeds it is the ratio of back knee bend vs front knee bend. As your back knee bends more your mass always goes back.

 

We could go into ankle bend but for a skier at @escmanaze's level I think this too far in the weeds to start with.

[Deanoski]

1 bend your front ankle to get hips up this will help your stack

2 the handle is above your belly button if the pull is high is pulls you forward so then the hips go back. the handle should be below the belly button.

 

[skidawg]

@ToddL said balls....Hahahahahaha! Great skiing @escmanaze, keep it simple-body alignment, arm pressure, handle control and vision. Don't listen to @Horton he tries to make everything sound fancy!

[Horton]

@Deanoski stand up, drop your ass behind you and try to fix it with just ankle bend. It sort of works but if your back leg is collapsed already it is semi futile. 1,000,000 times easier to just straighten out your back leg.

[Horton]

@escmanaze don't listen to @skidawg his is very tall, extremely dumb and super strong. He has no idea how he skis so well.

[skidawg]

@Horton - I got everything sorted out this weekend- pretty sure standing tall is part of the equation!

[Horton]

@skidawg now you are just being nice. Odd.

[gregy]

A few years ago I did some coaching with Seth Stisher. He watched me through 2 pass which I thought were pretty good. I very proud set down after the 2nd pass thinking I hadn't made a total ass of myself. He quickly deflated my ego by saying "you had 90% of your weight on the back foot the hole time".

 

So its not easy for beginners but once your learn the body positioning you will be rewarded. There are some different theories on how to get it done but the basis it to get the body aligned shoulders, hips and front foot all aligned with knees and ankles flexed. Whenever you're standing around during the day just practice it, my coworker I'm sure are wondering what the hell I'm doing all the time standing like that. @Than_Bogan has write up he did on how to get stacked.

[skidawg]

@Horton - Not being nice, you just finally said something simple that makes sense in a non intergalactical non philosophical way i agree with!

[ToddL]

@Horton just doesn't like me, and I'm OK with that, I guess.

 

Anyways, @escmanaze asked for help, not front row seats at a debate. Let's get back to helping him.

 

No one is wrong above in my opinion. The goal is simply to ski with more weight stacked on top of the front foot, but in a position that is strong, stable, and balanced. The how to get there part is what you need and there are many opinions as you can see. The why is simply that a ski with only the tail in the water is less efficient than a ski with more of the length in the water.

 

So, back to the "How"...

 

@gregy is correct that you should get into position before you ever make a move, then work really hard to make that position become "normal" when you do lean out so that you keep it while crossing wakes, etc.

 

Therefore, the most important thing is to be Pro-Skier Stacked before you even start to lean outbound for the gate setup. Then, work to hold that stack, during the outbound motion, during the glide, and during the turn in. This will put you on path for that calm, early, confident 1-ball.

 

Pro-Skier Stack is: Standing tall with 90% of your core/torso over your front foot. At least, that's how I feel it. You have to feel tall and you have to feel that your whole body is over the front foot. There is a lot of talk about hips forward which is correct, but I think it is easier to think torso forward. (It is never about shoulders forward.)

 

I really like @Horton 's Ideas for stack and use them to describe this process for feeling/finding that perfect stack: (try this on the dock first)

Get into your ski position. You are probably further back and butt back than you realize (fig 1)

Stand tall, really tall. (fig 2)

Bend your front ankle while simultaneously straightening your back leg. If you did that right, you should feel like your torso is crazy forward almost out the front. (fig 3)

Now, without changing anything from the waist down, simply lean your shoulders slightly back until they are vertical again. (fig 4)

 

Once you feel this, you can compare it to what you previously thought felt like "stacked".

 

Now, on the water, as soon as you are up and stable, move to your starting position just to the left of the left wake and do the above process to get into "Pro Stack". Freeze.

Then, to move outbound, ONLY do these two things: Rotate your hips to the left (counter-clockwise) about 10 degrees and move your hips to the left as if to lead the rest of your body in the direction you want to go. Notice that you are NOT to lean or rear back against the boat. It is about driving a ski edge into the water. If done correctly, you will be wider, faster with less effort and still stacked.

As you rise up into the glide, re-assess your stack and fix any lost position. Think "rise up and forward".

If in a long glide, then keep hips slightly rotated away to maintain width.

Then, to turn in, rotate the hips clockwise and lead with them in the direction you want to go.

Again, it isn't about rearing back on the boat. It is about driving a ski edge into the water.

 

 

 

 

[ToddL]

(oh and depending upon your ankle flexibility, you will likely be on the balls of your feet when you are standing in figure 4 position for the first time. )

[Horton]

@toddL Figure 4 might be perfect. Only the top .005% of the skiing world is capable of getting there. I am not actually convinced anyone on earth does this.

 

Hardly anyone even gets to position # 2. Position 2 is achievable if you ski in position 1. To tell a skier who is stuck in Position 1 to try to get to 4 is like shorting the line to 41 and telling them to run it. It sounds good and is idealistic but I think it is folly

[skidawg]

Watch some chris parish video- He stands like Number 2! I hate to agree with @horton again, but 3 & 4 are hard to achieve. Damn, I may have to start drinking early today.

[matthewbrown]

Best advice, ski more. You look very athletic, and often times the body position with guys like you will work itself out as the speed and line length change. @Horton loving your comments

[RazorRoss3]

haha, @skidawg said "number 2"

[ToddL]

Yeah, but if we told skiers to just get as close to "stacked" as you can, then everyone would still be riding with their backsides sticking out. Strive for the ideal. Very few skiers fully and constantly achieve it. However, good enough is only good. We should strive for better, while reaching for the best.

 

That picture was about a process to have a skier feel what ideal stacked is like.

 

I go through the 2,3,4 "inventory" each time I get up. I think, "tall", "front ankle", "shoulders up". I am as close to #4 as I will ever get. It has made a huge impact on my skiing.

 

I also do this every time I am gliding to set down. I figure at those two times, I've got nothing else to worry about so I might was well ski as perfectly stacked as possible. Muscle memory is my hope that I can keep as much of this while chasing buoys.

 

Let's say you have a decent length ski lake. You spend about 16-20 seconds from pull out to exit gate. You also spend about 10-20 seconds collectively in the time skiing before pullout and the time between the exit gates and setting down into the water. Might as well ski as tall and stacked as possible in those 10-20 seconds every single trip down the lake. Never waist a moment on top of the water and not in stacked position.

[skidawg]

Stacked is a position of shoulders hips center over bindings. Not all front foot. Not possible to ski with 90% of your weight on your front foot.

[ToddL]

@skidawg

 

But you were probably thinking more like this:

[rawly]

Looks like more than 90% of the weight on the front foot . That is one bad ass dude. Thanks for the video @ToddL

[skidawg]

funny stuff @ToddL - one legged slalom works for those with one leg-not relevant to a non disabled skier. You really have to stay centered over both feet. Once u figure that out, u can add some bouys

[ToddL]

Yep. Even stick figure #4 is not 90% front foot. I think we say "more weight on the front foot" relative to the status quo. Thus, a skier who is 70% back foot, needs "more on the front." I've found in coaching that it is very rare for a student to do exactly what the coach asks. So, often coaches will ask for more than what is required in the hopes of getting the skier closer to the mark. If "Ideal" was 50% front foot, then we'd still have to tell many students to shoot for 60% to get them to move off their back foot.

[Horton]

@ToddL when guys who who run 2 or 3 passes more then you are questioning your theory don't you think it might be time for some introspection?

 

 

[ToddL]

Nope. Not when we are having a good discussion about how it all works. If my comments solicit good dialog and learning, then they are of value.

[Horton]

@ToddL

Okay I just want to be clear about this. When skiers with more experience and higher skill levels question your logic you don't even step back to wonder if you're going down the wrong path? I'm pretty sure that's what you just said.

[skidawg]

Again, it's about being balanced over the center of the ski, you shouldn't feel extreme pressure on Balls, u should NOT try to work percentages on front foot or back foot. K.I.S.S! don't over complicate. Stand tall on your ski balance over both feet. To be successful in the course. Keep it simple stupid. Focus on the four main things and practice practice practice.

[matthewbrown]

@Horton let me see if i can confuse things....

[ToddL]

@Horton - I always listen to and highly regard what @skidawg says. He knows that, too. I appreciate his advice. It helps us all become better.

[Horton]

Ok @matthewbrown I am going to regret this but please elaborate