New CG Fin from Denali

[Drago]

Nice @MattP that was quick! Setting compared to your original fin?

[dthate]

@MattP very cool, look forward to hearing more, also settings

[MattP]

@drago & @dthate I ran it on my current settings for my ski, but I am tuning back the DFT.

[AdamCord]

FYI to anyone who has one of these fins and is starting to play with it. We are finding that you can run the same settings you can with your old fin, but will need to pull the fin back about .03".

 

Also this fin is way way less sensitive to length and depth changes than a normal fin so not only do you not need to be as precise when setting up the fin, but you can make big adjustments and the ski will still work.

 

For example we've run everything from 2.35-2.65" depth and 6.45-7.20" length and have still been able to ski well with it. I't a bit nuts.

[Gar]

Would be nice if all brands were that way! I hate having to adjust fins!

[dthate]

@AdamCord thanks for the big target, it's likely even I can locate these settings....haha.

 

I am skiing it later today.

[Than_Bogan]

I confirm that one of the many cool things about the CG fin is that it works well over an insane range of settings.

[S1Pitts]

@AdamCord thank you for the timely advice. I received notice my order is being delivered today. I have been creeping my DFT longer the last two weeks (increased 0.020) and feel I can go a bit more. I plan on starting at the current setiings minus 0.010 dft . I am running the washer under the clamp @ 0.050 thick and will remove it for the first try as well.

[brettmainer]

I am a fan of the CG fin, as it greatly reduced the drag I felt with the stock fin and S wing.

 

Due to the amount of rocker in the last 10" of the C65, I found there is a +/- 3 degree wing angle variation depending on how I hold the caliper bar used as a spacer for the wing angle gauges against the ski. I didn't like the shallow option (which, depending on what how it is measured may have been as shallow as 4-5 degrees), but at the steeper option for 7 degrees, it feels good. I have "standardized" to hold the caliper bar flush against the tail of the ski and set the wing to 7 degrees rather holding the spacer flush with the portion of the ski in front of the wing.

 

In order to keep apples to apples regarding wing angle settings shared between skiers, it may be helpful if Denali issued a standard method for spacing and using wing angle gauges, so one person's idea of 7 degrees is not interpreted to be 4 or 10 degrees by someone else. This is a moot point for skis without rocker over the last 10 or so inches, but there is quite a bit of curve in the tail of the C65.

[Wish]

@brettmainer I use the calipers as a spacer as well. I use the wedge process. Place caliper on bottom of ski and wedge the angle gauge between caliper and wing till it stops. Not crazy hard or anything that would damage the caliper but certainly firm. So as a unit, they find the same spot with regards to rocker. Much like you would do with a standard fin and wing gauge. So far, very repeatable and can't see someone having even 1 degree diff. Bit worried about dropping calipers though. Would like to have a different and better spacer or way bigger wing gauge.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I have 3 sets so far with the cg fin. I was expecting it to have some really positive characteristics based on my history of fin/wing tinkering. At this point it behaves slightly better than I was expecting.

 

2 big things stand out: it completes the turns very smoothly / effortlessly then accelerates extremely well. The angle it holds across course through the wakes is significantly better than the standard fin.

 

I have a combination of bad habits and the ski design that creates tip rise at the completion of my offside turn. The cg fin essentially eliminates the tip rise.

The wing being lower on the fin amplifies its effect. I used to use 9deg, but even at 7deg there is more drag. I will go to 6 for the next set.

 

I have held the opinion for many years that the optimum ski/setup will not add buoys to anyone’s score, but will have a significant effect on consistency. After 3 sets, my consistency is better with this fin even with making tweaks every set.

 

Current numbers

2.500

0.72

6.830

S-wing 7 deg

[jipster43]

I was thinking about getting the cg fin until I heard about it’s lack of sensitivity to settings. I stopped thinking immediately and pulled my phone and my wallet out. Looking forward to finding it on my front doorstep soon.

[WaterSkier12]

How do you buy an s-wing?

Didn’t see that option on the website..

[VONMAN]

Bruce, give it a go with a normal wing or even no wing. The fin seems to do most of the work. The S-Wing adds load/drag to the setup. Just what I've found.

[Ed_Johnson]

Well you Guy's convinced me, I ordered mine today. The reason I waited was because it did not come with the S Wing, which sounded like an integral part to the package. But the comments that the S Wing seemed to add a lot of drag has led me to believe I could try several of the different size small wings I have, including a Ventral Wing, which worked well on a Schnitz fin. My Daughter still uses that setup on her HO. Plan to try the fin on the NRG and the EVO.

Keep sharing your settings. THX ED

 

[mwetskier]

i was thinking about trying the cg fin... until i heard the price. $149 for fin only, plus shipping with no mounting block and no wing! too rich for my blood (and wallet). that said the very minute i hear about nate smith running 43 off with one i'll probably fly down to south carolina in person to get mine :smile:

[VONMAN]

So only 2 days on my new EVO stock numbers great ski even into 38off. Second day tried Hortons numbers, sorry not for me. Onside is magic, reach/bang and the ski turns. Offside for me??? Not there for me.

Day three I'm thinking why wait, get it over with. CG fin in the EVO fin numbers first set.

6.900 tips 2.440 depth .725 slot No Wing 30" front boot

Ski would turn good but lots of work on my end. (load/drag but tight line)

The .725 number came from the .755 number used for the D3 fin. -.030" move.

 

Second set: 6.879 tips 2.430 depth .760 slot No Wing 30" front boot

Freed up the ski a bunch. Great symmetrical turns, wide cast out to the boat with no slack in the rope. Moving in the right direction. Maybe move the fin and boot forward next

time out. Adam Cord any thoughts? Keep in mind I'm at 32.3mph

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@VONMAN ... When I skied the 68" EVO for the first time using stock numbers, it seemed fast cross course but made school bus turns with little cross course angle. Went to .787 DFT and 9 degrees of wing, way better. Next set, 1/8th back on both bindings and added length to 6.995 depth L 2.295 R 2.465 and .850 DFT 9 degrees. ROCKS Baby !!!!

 

Will be really interested in your Denali Fin numbers, since I have one ordered for the EVO.

 

For me Fin Forward and Shallow with Bindings Back is what worked.

 

 

 

[S1Pitts]

2015 Lithium Vapor : 2.470, 6.860, 0.720, 8 deg – front boot 29.75 rear boot 17.25 I decided to heed Adam’s advice and set the DFT - 0.030 from current stock fin setting. I went for a free ski to try it out @ 55K & 32off.

 

If I was asked to sum up what I felt different it would be - total control.

I always felt like I had to completely stay focused and top of my game riding with the stock fin. The ski seems like all of the performance nuances it had previously were boosted but it is now much more user friendly and to a point made it feel like it was all happening in slow motion.

I was wider, faster across the wakes, line was tighter and edge change felt more natural but turns felt a bit more open than before. I was using the shim washers under the fin clamp previously and had them dialed so I had very even turns. I think I lost a bit of symmetry when going to the CG fin without them so I will try a bit of tweaking there again.

Comments from the boat crew were that I looked smoother, more natural, enjoying myself and had a smile from ear to ear!

 

I put in much longer runs, more consecutive turns, played with different style turn initiation which all required less rider input and physical effort than before. It now exhibits a calm confidence building feel with as much performance as you want or don’t want, that seemingly accepts any type of riding style you want to throw at it. This fin truly transformed the ski into a better version of itself.

 

I admit to those who said it would be worth the wait that they were right. I am looking forward to getting it into the course and proving out the changes as well as finding those elusive ultimate settings.

 

The Denali team deserves applause for creating a great product.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@S1Pitts ... What wing are you using ???

 

[S1Pitts]

@Ed_Johnson

I am using the standard Radar. I bent up a smaller HO to try the S wing concept but really dont think I need it at this time.

[S1Pitts]

Has anyone tried the wing flipped over with the wing at the top of the mounting flange? I might just do that today.

[thager]

Been there done that! See page 5 this thread.

[VONMAN]

@Ed_Johnson With the stock setting on my 67" EVO the turns were nice and quick as long as I remembered to reach and counter with my back shoulder. Almost automatic.

[S1Pitts]

@thager - Fair enough on flipping the s wing which makes sense as the now turned down section of the wing would have been in the wash of the fin making it less effective.

 

My thoughts were more of the difference we feel with a regular wing on a regular fin. Seems it changes the effort to roll the ski on edge and seeing as I am not using the S wing I was wanting to see if there was a similar effect.

Unfortunately we here are in yet another change of weather and the winds are very strong. It's been a tough year for good water because of wind.

[CaleBurdick]

I'm still loving the settings I posted earlier in the thread. I ran 3 1/4 at 41 in a tourney over the weekend. I made a mental mistake at 2 and then again coming into 3. I need to get out of my own way and let the Denali C-65 with CG fin and S-wing do its job!

[thager]

@CaleBurdick I have searched this thread front to back twice. Could you repost your settings again? Thx!! Never mind, found it on pg 5. Disregard!

[Drago]

June 17manufactured, the shop is within driving distance. A very professional shop and product. After messing around with settings for weeks, Cord found a great zone for me on my C-65. 29.75 front boot, 6.812 length, 0.646 distance from tail, 2.491 depth, 2.473 onside turn depth, and 8 degrees s-wing is where I ended up. As the water warmed up I had to increase DFT 18K and leave leading edge alone, I also worked my way from 11 degree suggested s-wing to the 8 degrees now. And I added half turns of offset at a time to get to 2.473. I ran 3 out of 3 39's last time I skied, it's dialed up pretty close, I need to work at 41 more to really know. My buddy TC who runs deep 38 used my settings and was blowing the tail in his offside turns. Which is crazy to me because it feels like the tail is so solid and deep. I have not blown the tail yet, even coming in hot offside and just going for it at 5 at 39. I'm happy with the feel because it feels less affected by rough water than my 3.1 Denali. It is a bit slower than the 3.1 due to the s wing, but it's hard to complain with tight line 1 balls at 41.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@S1Pitts IMO the majority of the wing effect you are experiencing is due to its position on the fin (lower) than the standard fin. Put another way, the change from standard wing to Swing is very subtle, while the change in position with the same wing from middle of fin to lower is significant.

 

@CaleBurdick those are interesting settings. Did you try more DFT and slightly longer? I may have to give your settings a try:)

[AdamCord]

@VONMAN I am not sure about the EVO but I did ride an NRG with this fin last night. I went with short/deep/back settings (2.51-6.76-.68) and it was surprisingly good. I'm not sure why D3 doesn't suggest short/deep settings for their skis? Freed it up a ton and turns were automatic.

[VONMAN]

@AdamCord Thanks for the info, will head in that direction soon. Have been playing in the long, forward and shallow sandbox with some good results. Just like on the C-65 you have huge latitude of movement with fin settings.

[Ed_Johnson]

@AdamChord ... When I tried Short/Deep on my NRG the ski was slow and not very responsive. It could be the CG Fin that is making the difference.

When my CG Fin I ordered gets here, I will try it on my NRG and see. Also have an EVO to try it on too.

@VONMAN ... Please keep posting your findings for the CG on the EVO. Can't wait for mine to get here.

 

[Weappa]

@adamcord What length was the NRG?

[S1Pitts]

Depth-2.469 Left Side/2.455 Right Side

Length-6.831 Left Side/6.863 Right Side

DFT-0.712 Head

Wing-9.5

I ended up adding the washers (front left and center right) under the fin clamp which yielded the different measurements left to right side on the ski.

 

I ran the wing angle in 1/2 deg steps from 8 deg to 6 and found as I progressed to a lower angle the ski became increasingly more difficult in the finish of the turns. So I started back at 8 and went the other way and when I hit 9.5 magic happened. For now that's where it is staying.

 

I now have very even turns and wake crossings but what differs with the CG fin is-

1) the speed at all stages has increased significantly

2) the ski has a much more level attitude and a very solid feeling of being connected to the water-really feels like there is not a chance of blowing out the tail

3) much easier to carry speed out of the turn and back to the wakes making it so much easier to transition to the wake crossing

4) the wake crossings feel so much better - the right balance of load and angle making them very comfortable.

 

Just to make sure and having mounted the CG fin in a second fin block, I swapped out the entire package back to the standard fin with the washers as it was before and it is the CG fin that is the clear choice. After putting in 2 season with this ski it has never felt better.

Now we just have to get that course in - back to rain and wind today.

 

[Booze]

@AdamCord - what's your thoughts on running the CG without a wing?

[iceboating]

Last night a friend let me try his CG fin. I have been trying new skis this year because I have it in my head my TX SL is getting tired. Trying different skis has not helped my skiing at all and my off side is not good. Mounted CG on my TX -.015 dft and +.010 in depth from my normal fin length. First pass I was wide and early at every ball. Amazing. What i found so significant was I had no problem keeping my handle in close and never got pulled out from over loading. Ended the night with the best two sets of skiing in years. Ordered my own fin as soon as I put the boat away. I’m done shopping for a new ski, the TX with a CG fin will be all I need until Danali designs a ski for fat old guys.

[Ilivetoski]

@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell if a fin was ordered today, do you know what the wait time would look like?

[Bill22]

@iceboating you just pushed me over the edge. CG RFF non Denali fin on the way.

[Booze]

Time to try a mini-wing

 

 

 

[Garn]

Anyone tried this on an Omni?

[Adam Caldwell]

@Booze - I ran a prototype CG fin at 36mph that was 7.5" long and 2.450 deep with no wing in Dec. Ran straight through 39 at 36mph. At 34 on the C-65, you could probably get away with no wing at 2.500 7.00 pretty easily if you get the DFT right. Add or remove length as necessary to manage speed on-top of the buoy line and the rate of the turn finish.

[VONMAN]

Third day out with the EVO and CG fin. 67" ski RFF 32mph

6.880tips 2.430 .853slot No Wing 30.25" front boot

Ski was easy to ski, fast not a lot of work, great turns and angle. But the wake crossings were hard!? Even when I tried to hold extreme angle to cut through the wake. I think it has to do with the deeper concave under the feet. Lot of ski in the water.

Next time out:

So my next setting will be Long/Shallow fin and boot back.

6.900tips 2.420 .821slot No Wing 30" front boot

 

And then a trip at Short/Deep. If something bad is going to happen, it will happen out there.

6.760tips 2.510 .680slot No Wing 30" front boot

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Booze]

Thanks @adamhcaldwell . I shoulda included you in that question.

 

[VONMAN]

Yesterday I set the EVO 67" 32.3 mph, up with these numbers:

6.900tips 2.420 .821slot No Wing 30" front boot

Woke this puppy up big time! Felt like my retired C-65 Denali. My offside turns were better than my onside. Major width to the boat, easy to ski, turns automatic. Free ski at 28-39.5 off. My only problem was running into some slack line on my onside turn if I stayed on the handle to long.

Tuesday, this morning I added a normal wing to the mix with 7 degrees and that slack line on my onside was gone. Who knew a fin could be such a big change. It was the same for the C-65, Connelly Prophecy and D3 EVO. I could ski it easy or load it to the max. The ski could do no wrong. Talk about building ones confidence. Great product to add to your ski.

Because its working so good not sure when I will tune it with the stock fin. And not even going to try short/deep settings at this time. The CG fin is not hard to dial in, you can make big moves (compared to a stock fin). But when you find it, its Magic.

6.900tips 2.420 .821slot Normal wing 7 degrees 30" front boot

[BlueSki]

Today, heat index 100 degrees plus nasty, get home from the lake and the Mrs. gets the mail. She sees the package in the mail and thinks, “that’s a Denali fin, I don’t get to sleep in because we are going back to the lake.”

 

Sounds like starting at stock without the washer is the way go, but please correct me if I am wrong.

[AdamCord]

@BlueSki same length and depth but pull the fin back .030”

[BlueSki]

Thanks @AdamCord.

[Bill22]

@AdamCord a few degrees less wing?

 

Someone said something about the wing (standard wing) having more effect because it’s lower on the fin.

[AdamCord]

@Bill22 maybe but that may be more personal. Some people I’ve talked to say because they are running passes earlier they need less wing so they can carry speed long enough while waiting on the buoys. I’d say try it first with your normal wing setting but take some wing gauges in the boat.

[VONMAN]

After having fun on the EVO with the CG fin decided to take my ski partners 2013 D3 Quest for a ride. It's a 68" ski that use to be mine so I know what it skis like with a regular fin. So in goes the CG fin: 6.900tips 2.424 .813slot 7degrees normal wing 30.5 front boot

Wow! just like the change it made to the C-65 Denali, the Prophecy, the EVO and now the Quest. Same like it's on a rail, great turns, with angle, speed and wide cast out. After Craig saw what a difference it made he was a little reluctant to try the setup. He finely gave into the dark side and came back in the boat all smiles. I told him to go on the forum and tell his story. Stay tuned. I think I won't be seeing the CG fin for a while.