Why isn't slalom skiing an Olympic sport?

[PacMan]

I have read multiple threads about how to spark interest in slalom skiing again and seeing as the Olympics have been going on my brother @shererskier and I thought "why isn't slalom skiing a summer Olympics event?"

 

I have no idea what it takes to get approval to add a sport to the Olympics but with some of the other events that have been added in recent years how has slalom skiing not been considered? Or trick and jump as well.

 

With so many important and influential people in the sport active on this site I thought this would be a good place to start for ideas to get the ball rolling. We were thinking for slalom qualifying it could start in standard format and the top 10-20 scores (depending on how many contestants entered) would progress. After that (for the sake of competition) it could switch to the head to head format for the next couple days to decide the medalists.

 

@Horton @FWinter @SkiJay @twhisper just wondering what you and other ballers think about this? Or if this has ever been talked about?

[dave2ball]

This has been an ongoing topic for years. There are too many human variables. The boat moving around calling gates good or bad. Now that there has been PP and ZO have been required for many years now that has helped take on human element out of the problem.

[ScottScott]

I had heard, whether true or not, that this was high on Andy Mapple's thought process with his work with Zero Off. I think boat path is still a large variable that may not be overcome anytime soon. And, is the popularity enough for anyone to care? Hard to compete with sports like curling (I know, wrong season.)

[LLUSA]

This is a dead horse since the early 70's when Ricky as an exhibition in Germany it has been the pipe dream to get water skiing in the Olympics. Listen to what I am saying, it will not happen in 10, 20, or even 30 years, the use of a motorized propulsion throws it out the window. We have wasted a lot of money following the dreams of others and that has only gotten us more regulations and oversight and for what?

[klindy]

Waterskiing has been candidate and attempted to be approved for years. From the exhibition event @LLUSA mentioned above to a demo for the Greek games more recently and even a wakeboard demo if my memory is correct.

 

As @LLUSA said, the motorized propulsion makes it impossible. Besides all the other events using gravity, human power or other natural power (wind for the sailing events), the use of a motorized, human driven boat make waterskiing an unintentional "team event" (driver and skier). Add the fact that boats require gasoline and all the potential environmental issues surrounding that (real or perceived) and it's a non-starter.

 

The only potential option to see any kind of towed sport (slalom, trick, jump, wakeboard, etc) would be if it was on a cable course.

 

As a side note, there has also been talk forever that tricks are too difficult for the average viewer to understand and enjoy. After watching a the Olympics for a few days, skiing/snowboarding have taken "tricks" to a whole new level with multiple varients of events from halfpipe to ariels to slopestyle to moguls, etc. I call waterski tricks all the time and I had virtually no idea what they were doing on the snow. Yet the fans jammed the seats and loved it. Waterski tricks aren't dead, they just may need to be refreshed.

[LeonL]

No need to rehash for most of us, but for some noobies maybe. I as recall, for all intents and purposes, this was why USAWS was formed. A great deal of money was spent (yes real money) to wine and dine Olympic officials hoping to sway them. At one of these wine and dine efforts an exhibition was planned for the head guru (whatever title he has) of the Olympics and his minions. The wined and dined and shortly after the exhibition began, they just left, after paying it scarce attention while there. Pompous asses, left waterskiing looking like the fools that we were for all the effort put forth. Those in the know feel free to correct any errors in the above description. After watching the current Olympics, an uninitiated observer (me) sees redundancy in much of this. Half pipe on boards, half pipe on skis. Pairs figure skating, pairs ice dancing. Aerials on skis, big air on boards. Slope style on skis, slope style on boards. Three different slalom events.

[RazorRoss3]

Summer X games exists boys and girls. Every event is an extreme sport and plenty of the events are motorized. Sure it's a smaller stage but it's televised, it's on every year with multiple stops some years, and unlike the Olympics it's actually possible to get our sport added in.

[disland]

I have said for years that waterski skifly should be in the X games. Thye had wakebaording in a few of the early X games in San Francisco. I think having a lake as a seperate venue is what makes it hard.

[Wish]

When slalom looks the same to the average Joe no matter the line length (announcer calling feet off..whaaat?) and tricks to hard to notice the slight diff in each trick, jump is the only extreme sport to the average Joe visually and is easy to understand...he who goes the farthest wins. But that's not even as exciting visually as some of the Xgame events. So doubt there is a chance with Xgames as well. Winter half pipe (Olympic) on skis was insane and extremely entertaining and to be honest, it was rather easy to tell who had the best tricks.

[bigskieridaho]

I would be cool to see in the Olympics, but I agree with the above comments that the X Games are probably the best option. Although we got a couple medals in ski racing, it goes to show that sports like snowboarding and skiing slope style and pipe are the events that people are progressing more into with multiple medals. Maybe this progression of people into our sport would have the same effect into the X games? I grew up ski racing, but honestly big mountain skiing and finding that line or huck is way more fun!

[klindy]

@Wish I agree with most of what you said. However with Alpine skiing to the average joe, all the slalom turns look the same, giant slalom looks the same, etc....Snowboard, and halfpipe, ariels, etc. all appear the same to the average joe. Add to that the identical camera angles for every skier, every round and the same announcing and it's all pretty similar. Same can be said for bobsled and even ice skating, etc. At least curling has some real time strategy ... add beer and it's perfect. Anyway ...

 

Where the "excitement" comes in is with the times that are immediately after the skier is complete, the 'drama' unfolds and the snowboarder stands at the bottom of the hill with his board in hand, logo prominently displayed with his shiny Oakley goggles waiting for the (nearly) instantaneous score to be displayed (cue the crowd - crowd goes wild). Think about it, except for the snowcross stuff, it's all one skier at a time (or figure skater) taking their 2-5 minutes for their turn, judges process the scores and we pick a winner. Not a lot different functionally than waterskiing.

 

Short track speed skating is cool. Even the traditional speed skating has two people at the same time.

 

I think having (near) instantaneous scores would help. Even with waterski jumping observers have some idea how far the jump was but it's not until the distance is announced that you hear the cheers or moans from the crowd on the beach. Shoot even figure skating shows a green/yellow/red light for each element as it occurs in real time.

 

My point is, the events themselves haven't changed a lot but they have been made more "fan friendly". Perhaps we need to take a step back and figure out how we might be able to add some life into the event on the water.

[Horton]

Do you hear that? It is my head pounding on my desk.

[aupatking]

I hear it

[RazorRoss3]

@Wish I agree across the board with you. I think there are some format items that could be brought in to play that could increase spectacle a bit.

Slalom:

limited field, maybe a 16 skier qualifiers (untelevised) 8 finalists in a head to head bracket, makes it pretty clear who won each pairing and even an average Joe would be able to visually see that one skier was making look easy and one was fighting like hell and anyone with eyes can count allowing them to know who won the pair when they both fall at different places

 

Jump:

again, limit the field, each skier takes a good piece of time and the average attention span is only so long

is it possible to do head to head jump? alternate jumpers? could reduce empty time but might have a wakes in the course type issue

 

Trick:

limit the field, again, attention span thing

could alternate in a bracket system again, skier1 hands, skier2 hands, skier1 toes, skier2 toes

beyond that, trick is probably fine, people are always going to think flips are cool weather it's on a wakeboard, trick ski, wake skate, snowmobile, snow board, snow skis, trampoline, etc... I can't trick past 800pts, have no idea what anything past a backflip is even called, and still enjoy watching the pros even if I can't tell for myself who threw the hardest run.

 

Generally speaking for a televised format I think limiting the dead time by having two skiers on the water at a time in a head to head bracket limits the dead time, speeds up the event, and creates a format where anyone can tell what is going on since every round they are only comparing two skiers to each other rather than each to the entire field. A lot of these sports people aren't watching because they know who the winner is going to be but because the display of athleticism is impressive and the format keeps their attention. If we can bend our format to maintain a pace that holds peoples attention then the athleticism speaks for itself.

 

At the end of the day, X games is still a long shot but it's a way better shot than the Olympics will ever be and we certainly aren't getting televised on our own any time soon.

[Chef23]

While I would love to see skiing in the Olympics I agree it will never happen. I think the boat is a key factor in it never happening.

 

Regarding @klindy's point about slalom and GS turns looking pretty much the same there is one key difference and that is whoever gets to the bottom first wins. Slalom skiing as much as I love it doesn't have that. To the uninitiated 2@41 looks pretty much like 2@39 and you can't look at a clock to see who won.

 

Regarding things like the half pipe and slopestyle while the tricks are hard for the average person to understand they are way more spectacular visually than a trick skiing pass to the average fan. I personally think the way a top trick skier can cram 10-15 tricks into a 20 second pass is spectacular but the trick skier isn't 30 plus feet off the ground.

 

Jumping is the only event that I could see being easily understood and spectacular but again the boat is the big issue and it doesn't have the history that an event like nordic jumping has.

 

I hope nobody in the skiing industry spends any time or money trying to get the sport in the Olympics it will never happen. It makes me a little sad because I love the Olympics and my family makes fun of how much I watch of it but it isn't going to happen for our sport.

[unksskis]

Summer X games the event is just ESPN's little toy now, it hasn't been of any value the past couple years. You should actually want no part of it. What they've done for the Real Wake video contests is more what you should strive for.

 

Cable wakeboarding can and should be the first watersport to be included in the Olympics. With the success and fast tracking the Olympics have done for snowboarding due to it's popularity among younger viewers, it wouldn't be a surprise, especially with how many cable parks are going up in Asia-Pacific. It's international, easy access, and judged like gymnastics/snowboarding (not like trick skiing.....)

[Than_Bogan]

@unksskis Gawd like we need more sports where even the announcers have no clue who's winning. (Not that you're wrong; you're merely the bearer of the bad news.)

[oldjeep]

Im trying to image explaining to a general audience a sport where you win by failing to complete the course.

[Wish]

I say if you want to make slalom look extreme and easy to follow....side by side. He who falls or missed first loses. Simple. Add bracket skiing and pit countries against each other..boom.

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@RazorRoss3 that’s almost exactly the format the old pro tour used in the heyday of the late ‘80s to early ‘90s. It’s a whole different thread why that fizzled out. IMO all that’s needed to bring that back is a highly energetic promoter and a sponsor with deep pockets. Piece of cake;)

 

@Horton I was wondering what that hollow sounding THUD heard half way across the country was

 

[Kelvin]

Waterskiing on TV (in a tape delayed format) can eliminate alot of the dead time. Unfortunately, for my webcasts I don't have the resources or time to quickly do that much editing to boil down a 2 day event into 1 hour.

[Nando]

NO, NO, NO!!!! This idea devastated the sport 20 years ago! Horton, shut this down! (Sorry- got a little excited there...)

[ski6jones]

@Wish hit it directly on the head with slalom skiing, also why it will never happen. Where do you find a venue that can accommodate side-by-side slalom that is also close to where lots of people are? Side-by-side eliminates the need to explain anything, first one to fall loses.

[ShererSkier]

@Nando do you mean that trying to get into the olympics caused the downfall of televised and widely popular slalom skiing? Serious question, I’m 30 and don’t have knowledge of this.

 

This conversation @PacMan had about this wasn’t to beat a dead horse or anything. Just trying to explore avenues of trying to gain popularity in the sport. The Xgames sounds like a good thing but the real problem I see with everything is funding and time to promote this to officials. What bothers me is how althleticly intensive these sports (3 event) are and that the Olympics are supposed to be the “worlds best atheletes” competing in their sports. I dont like the “because your being pulled by motorized” excuse. That’s just bs to me, so is the variables in driver or whatever. Wind played a huge part in alpine these Olympics and you don’t see anyone trying to build a dome around a ski hill to prevent that, and judges will always make wrong calls in any sport. I agree with earlier comments about redundancy in the Olympics nowadays, there seems to be more and more sports cropping up that are basically the same thing, might get hate for that but variety helps. Add to the fact that competitiveness between countries helps gain support. Also, there are ways to attract people through informative advertising. When I saw the news feed of Krueger breaking the jump record I was surprised when most of my attention was on the scientifical explanation of everything going on in the jump rather than the jump itself. It may be hard to get it going but dismissing anything admits defeat! If I could I’d blow millions if it meant getting 3 event into televised Xgames or Olympics! Just the way I feel.

[liquid d]

If you had millions to blow, you could sponsor a pro tour , and get it on TV/edited for a great series of 1 hour events....and probably get it in the X games to boot.

[aspski]

I have seen waterskiing in olympic like events. I can't remember the name of the one that was in Toronto (Pan-AM games maybe???) Why not be in the Olympics as well?

[Wish]

@ski6jones plenty of places. Especially if you do 2 -4 ball courses. Coulda been done in downtown Orlando. Spoke with one of the powers that be about doing it. Showed her video. She liked it and actually understood slalom for the first time as an average Joe. The push back came in that one 4 ball course was already set as the plan. To hard to put up a second and figure out rules. Not so sure about that. So Orlando Joes got to see a non record capable 4 ball course while announcers explained things in mostly feet off the rope (rest of the world speaks of the amount of line not on the boats floor). Boredom and confusion set in and average joes just walked away. That lake was plenty big enough. So why not a 2 -4 ball course as an option?. Tournaments like that in front of the masses are not typically done for record setting anyway. There's still a check $$ at the end for the winners and the crowd actually sees right before their eyes why the first place guy got first place...he didn't fall or miss as much. So think of lakes that could hold 2 -4 ball course or if big enough, 6 ball courses. All I'm saying is without a revamp, perhaps as discribed, you're gonna get the same results of most Joes just not interested.

 

[andjules]

@aspski you're thinking of the PanAM Games 2015, in Toronto.

[unksskis]

Take a look at how Women's Slopestyle Snowboarding was treated this year being forced to compete in 30+mph wind gusts to fill TV coverage, women's snowboarding in general receiving virtually no television coverage(outside of Cloe Kim, who's tweet got more coverage than her own teammates performances), or snowboarding in general to see why you may not want your beloved past-time to become an Olympic sport. Shaun White significantly benefits from the Olympics, yet still turns around and creates his own, correctly run competition series Air & Style to properly support the sport and industry, because even he knows the Olympics only care about control and money.

[Wish]

Maybe side by side trick flip off. Set a fixed distance and see who can get more flips in. Crowd I bet would start counting with the announcer and who doesn't love a good crash (not really but people kinda do). Look how snow boarding has evolved. They keep moving the goal post when interest is lost and make up bigger and better things to do on a board and escape the trap of "we have to keep the integrity and tradition alive...we must"

Maybe bring ramp tricks back...

[unksskis]

Kind of like what the guy at the boat show said when I was describing the new larger trick skis, and new flips being approved, at some point you may have to ask yourself, "Why not just wakeboard?".

[ALPJr]

@Wish yes, Side by Side slalom would be good for TV.

[Ilivetoski]

As soon as I saw the thread I wanted to comment “please don’t open this can of worms” but a full page of comments later...

[klindy]

@PacMan @ShererSkier You guys are awesome! Your enthusiasm is fantastic. This has been tried before and there's a lot of expensive and somewhat controversial things that were left in the wake. That said, I'm serious, your enthusiasm is great and I'm happy to work with you to understand what's happened and what might need to be done.

 

You guys should get involved at AWSA on some level - committee or regionally or something.

[ShererSkier]

@liquid d and wouldn’t that be awesome??

 

@klindy thanks a lot for saying that. I can speak for the both of us when I say we wouldn’t be the people we are without water skiing. Can I PM you about joining AWSA and some of the things that would be involved? I’m also interested in learning about what happened and what would or could be done nowadays.

 

Just to reiterate everyone, we were not trying to evoke anything other than back and forth about trying to get the sport back to more popularity. I get that a lot on here may have a bad taste left in their mouths about past attempts but it never can hurt to try to come up with ideas. The reason we are all on this great website is because we love water skiing!!!

[klindy]

Absolutely. PM away.

[PacMan]

I'm not saying that this needs to be the future of slalom or that I want the Olympic committee to dictate how anything should be done in this sport. And honestly I thought of the problem of the boat being motorized on my way to work after I posted this morning.

 

Although other big events already host skiing or could possibly host skiing unfortunately they are not all televised worldwide and sometimes not televised at all, therefore being overlooked. I wish it weren't the case but there it is. There is no bigger stage as an athlete than the Olympics. Maybe a cable course is an option, I don't know but it would put skiing on a worldwide stage even if only for an hour or two, in that time people could have their interest sparked and that's what we need to keep this sport alive and growing. I would support anything that leads to that goal.

 

Sorry for opening old wounds with this but I am 28 and didn't know about half of the problems this has had in the past.

 

I know that the event can be complicated to follow for the uninitiated but as others have pointed out there are plenty of other sports out there that I cannot visually see the difference between performances but those who can are in awe when something happens. Hopefully those knowledgeable people are helping the others understand as they are watching, this sport cant and wont be saved just by putting something on TV, we need the community to help and work together.

 

[Nando]

My greatest wish is that there could somehow be a rebirth of the pro tour. ESPN did a great job of producing the broadcasts and they were great in person. There are a few tournaments that still capture it- the Malibu Open, Moomba Masters, the Masters, for example. Even though the IOC has opened up a lot, there is no way that a motorized sport will be in the Olympics and an incredible amount of time and effort was wasted about 25 years ago. X-Games seem like the venue. The head to head slalom was a good format, but the jump competition in the pro tour was fantastic and really captivated the crowds.

[Jody_Seal]

I was a fly on the wall sitting at Travers having dinner after a Sat tournament some 25 years ago. The big guns at the time Grew, Baggiano and a few other high end cronies were discussing the upcoming proposal that is now USAWS. They were talking about how the new direction and reorganization would benefit the sport in growth and membership #'s. Also How the Olympic push would bring untold dollars to the sport. I laughed as did others in the room as it was obvious that these guy's were smoking something a bit different. I guess they were not to happy when I explained water-skiing is a motorized sport and no way will it ever be included into an Olympic venue, They said oh no the USOC is going to help fund the development of the elite water skier and we will be able to better fund our teams and we will get water skiing into the Olympics!

 

Well! Here we are 25 years later as an Organization (AWSA) we gave up our ability to control our own destiny and are now a "Sport Group" under another entity. We gave up properties that as an organization AWSA we owned (the building and property on Overlook). We were told we would have a lake and building to utilize for our much needed programs and activities (lake Grew and we all know where all that went---- Gone!)

So here we are our parent entity organization has again renamed it's self. We pay rent for our meager business needs. But!! We do have a new lake access at the headquarters site in Polk County sports complex and the Olympic push has been revitalized and it is directed at cable boarding (cant really call it wake boarding as there is not a wake on a cable).

A couple other things. USOC really cut back on the dollars they once input into the sport yet we have to abide by their policy's. Yes there is another Olympic push but our USAWS leaders are not divulging their intent due to the cable aspect direction, This is not the case when one talks to IWWF leaders as they make no bones about their intent and direction.

 

Not saying that this push that started 25 years ago is the only factor in the demise of our sport but it sure did not help the sport in any way. In 1993 southern regional's there were over 100 men 3 slalom skiers registered over 90 men 4. We are lucky if we have 250 total entry's now a day's at our regionals. After the Nationals the southern regional tournament was the second largest waterski tournament in the world entry wise. We have reaped what we sow and across the board we can see where this direction 25 years ago has degraded our sport rather then benefited it!

 

 

[jcamp]

For all the bad comments about the failed Olympic push - everyone complains about all the $$ "wasted" but nobody actually has the figures on that - it actually came very, very close to working. Back when Olympic hosts were traditionally able to add two new sports of their choice, Athens, Greece selected one: water skiing. We would have been in if any other host city had picked us as Athens was so far behind on their preparations that they almost lost a game a year before they were to be hosted. The IOC at the time decided that Athens had enough on their plate with the sports as is, so they rejected Athens' request to add water skiing to the program.

 

The payoff of being included - how many gold medals would Regina and Freddy have by now and how would have that made a difference in their lives - was great enough that it was at least worth a shot. The fact that we got caught up in IOC internal drama doesn't make us any less of a successful sport for trying.

[ShererSkier]

@Jody_Seal @Nando Thanks for a little back story. I have a couple questions for you. Do you think the AWSA is not doing enough for the sport or was bad for the sport back when it was established? NO OFFENSE MEANT TO ANYONE, just curious. Also, What do you think needs to happen for the sport to gain more popularity?

 

Any idea is a good one if you think it can improve the sport! I wish everyone would give at least one idea, I get that it could be a hard task but nothing is impossible. Forgetting about the Olympic thing for a while, Since the Xgames have been stated as a good venue to introduce slaloming, what can be done to promote that front. If 3 event can gain traction on the Xgames, how many collegiate water ski teams would try even harder if it meant getting televised on the Xgames? Back when I was in school, I loved the Xgames and wished I had been good enough at any sport to be on them. Then can you image if other campus students started hearing fellow students were going to the Xgames to compete. I don't know...maybe a spark of interest.

 

I also love what @MarcusBrown has been doing with Flowpoint TV. That's absolutely awesome! I would love to see some other YouTube channels devoted to just trying to attract people to skiing. So many young people nowadays are on YouTube constantly that videos that explain how hard the technique is, with video footage (including occasional wipeouts) all with a fun upbeat vibe that makes people see a challenge and how rewarding it can be. Or another channel that just follows skiers on their daily routine of waterskiing, strange as it may sound my young cousin likes to watch people just doing stuff and it has pulled him into a few hobbies (snowboarding for one). @PacMan and I have a skiing YouTube channel so friends of ours can watch. I work with 2 people that have asked to come out and watch us ski this summer after they overheard me talking about the channel and subscribed to start watching our videos we have online.

[Nando]

IMO, during the push to get into the Olympics, too much of the AWSA's efforts were diverted to that initiative, to the detriment of their core members. I think it was a sincere effort to grow the sport and make it "big time". The issue to me was that, at that time, it was thriving and rather than promote the existing product, there was a movement to adapt it to make it coincide with what the IOC wanted their sports to be. Also IMO, there was no way at that time that the IOC would allow motorized sports to be part of their model. Also, at that time, to voice opinions contrary to the Olympic push would get you pushed out (trust me on this one).

 

@ShererSkier, your comments on Flowpoint TV, X-Games, etc. seem to be the direction to go if we want to get the exposure needed for increased popularity. There's no way to overstate how much the sport needs guys like you to move it forward.

[Wish]

Currently watching a new Olympic event -- Alpine Team Event-- with a team point system, males and females on each team running side by side slalom courses....just sayn.

[jedgell]

@wish. Just thinking the same. Problem is the wait time on each end, but could be slow motion of previous run.

But never happen in Olympics. Would be awesome if pro events were run side by side though

[Wish]

@jedgell not thinkn Olympics. Just thinkn it's far more exciting for the average crowd of non skiers and hopefully to be more interested in watching. Snow boarding seems to be pushing snow skiing to create new events. Wake boarding and wake surf seem to be pushing 3 event to hunker down in tradition and stay statick.

[skibug]

@Horton PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD!

[liquid d]

Let's turn thread into talking about current Olympics!

Curling--- Why/how did this ever get in? Absolute waste of time. My god, someone was found doping for this event! Unreal.

Relays every lap in speed skating---stupidest event on ice.

 

[LeonL]

@liquid d you're not taking to consideration the extreme level of exertion put forth by the guy pushing the stone. Obviously it takes a person with super human strength and endurance, hence the doping.

[Nando]

Not to go too far off topic, but to echo @liquid d, I laughed so hard when I heard about the doping in curling- isn't it just an excuse to drink beer? Local TV (MN) did a spot on the local angle of the gold medal and showed that the local club keeps the beer kegs along the side of the ice- about 50 of them- gotta love that...

[Dacon62]

Might have been said already but need underwater rail system with pylon as a tow machine to eliminate the gas powered boat.