ZO American Skier

[dchristman]

Come on @eleeski , challenge the 2019 Ski Nautique threads. This is more exciting news. How about some pictures?

[eleeski]

I'm such a tease. The story will come when this spring gets a little less hectic.

 

You are right about the relevance of a sweet little boat in comparison to an outrageously expensive ship.

 

FWIW Ken from BC who is my slalom tester preferred the American Skier. Until the engine quit. It's still a project with a ways to go.

 

Eric

[dchristman]

Will your ZO American Skier have micro-tuners when the project is finished? How many of these boats will you be building per year? Will it be ready for 2019?

[UWSkier]

Will you be adding a hydrofoil?

[eleeski]

Actually, I will be experimenting with hull modifications. Not micro tuners but an optimized slalom add on. It's original hull is optimized for tricks so that baseline will be the start point and an integral part of the project.

 

Right now, I'm stuck on keeping the engine running...

 

Eric

[eleeski]

@UWSkier The foils bolted on the American Skier will be for the amphibious aircraft project.

[dchristman]

Have you added a 3rd fin? Should help with tracking for slalom. Factory added it in 1984.

[eleeski]

The driving was different. It did take some driver input. Once I got used to it, I could drive a better pull. It is a lot different from just sitting in the driver seat. Remember, this is a boat from the days of skilled hand drivers. And I used to give great hand driven rides behind it.

 

Not sure self driving boats are the only way to improve performance. But I am converting the boat to ZO...

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski you give "great hand drive""? Not that there's anything wrong with that but this is a family website.

 

:smile:

[eleeski]

Skied the ZO American Skier again. What a sweet trick wake! Very much like my 2011 MC and maybe the table was a bit smoother.

 

The slalom wake isn't up to modern standards. At least at Lisa's speeds there was a big rooster tail. She preferred the 2011 MC. Incentive to continue the hull modification experiments.

 

It still needs some work. The engine cover whacked the throttle sensor and broke it. The flooring is a work in progress. ZO still resets every time I shut off the engine. The gas gauge doesn't work. The swim step is slippery (ouch!). Only the driver's seat has new upholstery. Lots to do!

 

Not ready to sell the MC.

 

Eric

[DW]

@eleeski : Can't remember, is the ZO accomplished via an engine swap or did you adapt the system to an existing non ZO power unit.

 

1. Slalom wake - bondo, screws, aluminum, holes, move fuel tank forward ...

2. ZO shut off - wire direct to battery

3. Gas gauge - graduated wooden stick

4. Swim step - 80 grit belt sander

5. Upholstery - color coordinated duct tape:)

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@eleeski did you put a 4 blade prop on it? That should help with the rooster tail and the slalom pull.

I had an ‘86 American skier that I loved. Awesome boat in its day.

DW is right about the wooden gas gauge. I had one for the nights when it was sunset, the gauge was on E, and needed another set without paddling in!

[eleeski]

@Bruce_Butterfield The ZO thinks I have a 4 blade prop but it's still a 3 blade prop. You just threw another variable at the project!

 

@DW I purchased a couple of complete engines out of older Nautique 200s. Early Texas boats so no catalytic manifolds. The old engine was a Ford so it took a little work to adapt but it wasn't that hard. Fitting it in the engine box was a pain.

 

I need it pretty nice (no duct tape and no electrical gremlins) to get unbiased reviews of my hull mods. And I need to fix the slalom wake without ruining the trick wake.

 

My knee isn't quite ready for slalom yet but this is a long term project.

 

Eric

[bigskieridaho]

@eleeski Need to see pics of this thing.

[DW]

@eleeski : Make your own engine box, I made mine from carbon fiber w/ a Corecell core, tips the scale at 24#, or a nice 41# lighter than the original one, includes padded vinyl and carpet + a parts tray instead of cupholders, also added a cold air intake slot. No need for the gas struts, super easy to lift open.

 

I don't think getting hot duct tape glue on your observer could possibly influence a review, you can even do custom striping colors, you can be pretty sure they won't slide off the seat.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@eleeski seriously, the 4 blade prop is the biggest bang for the buck you can get. Call Jody for a recommended pitch. My American Skier had 270Hp vs the standard 240Hp and it was obviously a strong boat. With a 5.7 fuel injected engine and the light weight of that boat, the right 4 blade prop will make a huge improvement in the hole shot as well as knock down the rooster tail.

[dchristman]

@Bruce_Butterfield But how does the 4 blade prop affect the best trick wake of all time?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@dchristman hopefully no affect on the trick wake. Granted, the mix of prop, hull mods and boats is mostly trial and error with a little black magic thrown in, but in general the prop affects the rooster tail and trick table while the hull shape determines the "wakes".

[dchristman]

I consider the smooth table a component of that great trick wake. Table is to wake as strap is to sandal, i.e. essential component.

[DW]

@Bruce_Butterfield : does your 4 blade comment still hold true with the Acme style 3 blade prop that basically has the same blade area as a 4 blade. If yes I would venture a guess that it is due to # of water piercings per revolution and the slow speed of tricking needs them to churn the wash (table area)? Thx.

[DW]

Just for Eric, how about a prop project? 3 blade prop modified to see if you can create the desired table via things like serrated trailing edge, blade vortex generators, blade slots. If you need ideas, see a Formula 1 undertray or wing end plate.

[Jody_Seal]

 

[eleeski]

@Bruce_Butterfield Keeping the trick wake and table is the basis for the hull mods. The slalom wakes (mostly a spray issue) are terrible at short lines. The new engine balance or the extra horsepower or failing memory of the slower wakes was discouraging that Lisa wasn't happy. Of course, Lisa isn't happy with the whole idea - she loves the "new" 2011 boat with clean heated seats, quiet reliable engines, shiny fiberglass and a trick wake equal to the American Skier. Why did Mastercraft obsolete that hull?

 

Trying a 4 blade prop will now be part of the process. (I am concerned about the hole shot. Already the boat jumps out of the water with all that horsepower.) But that's tuning. The hull mods are the radical part. Also somewhat difficult to build. Life is pretty busy and this isn't one of the (Lisa's) top priorities, updates might be slow here. It did take a year to get the motor in...

 

@DW I'm building a ski before a new engine cover. But you are right that engine covers are way too heavy. The MC might benefit more from the light engine cover. Another project?!

 

Eric

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@dw good question. I think the biggest benefit is the larger surface area provided by the 4 blade and I don’t have any experience with the newer large area 3 blades. Definitely a good experiment to add to eric’s list.

 

My comment about improving the rooster tail was based on a small sample of friends that put a 4 blade prop on 80’s vintage ski boats that made a significant improvement in the rooster tail and hole shot.

[eleeski]

You guys are killing me! This project is already big enough. I'd have to perform some real data analysis to get good information. Right now, it's just get the boat skiable!

 

But props are certainly now part of the journey.

 

Looking for pictures. I took some - a while ago.

 

Eric

[MISkier]

@eleeski, regarding your question about why the 197 hull was replaced, I think it boiled down to 2 things:

 

1. Slalom skiers crossing the wake at 22 off while pulling through the gate to 1 ball, from 2 ball to 3 ball, and from 4 ball to 5 ball.

2. Slalom skiers crossing the wake at 22 off while pulling from 1 ball to 2 ball, from 3 ball to 4 ball, and from 5 ball to 6 ball.

[eleeski]

@MISkier To obsolete a boat that is awesome for deep shortline, great for beginning slalom, awesome for jumpers, great for wakeboarding and arguably the best trick boat ever over a perception of a rooster tail at one slalom length is just sad. But you are probably right.

 

Of course, the ZO American Skier hull project is a proof of concept for an idea I had relevant to preserving the MC trick wake. Stay tuned - but don't hold your breath.

 

Eric

[DW]

We all like that 'shiny, new object', notice how much we lavish praise on every 'new' hull design (and pretty much everything else) and everything becomes the best ever. I am not saying we are incorrect, just our continuous desire for or to like the latest and greatest, which many new intros are.

 

As for the sending the older hulls to Davy Jones Locker, it is probably due to storage costs meaning required space pushing something else out of the way. Long term outdoor storage certainly does no favors to a fiberglass hull mold same with all the other tooling, molds, etc.

[shansen345]

Companies also don't want their old products competing with their new. New boats cost tons of $$ in research & development.

[eleeski]

OK the project is moving really slowly. New upholstery, bimini and carpet. It's not gross to sit in anymore (but the passenger seat is a bit firm). ZO works well but resets to useless defaults every time the key is turned off (yes it's wired properly and it saves the course mapping). Found an old Casad release to fit the pylon for tricks. Skis great!

 

Some gremlins with the engine messed things up. Ran great for two slalom passes or four trick passes then just died. New fuel cell. Same result. Wasted quite a few hours troubleshooting. So I gave up. (On the old gas tank.)

 

Problem solved! The engine rocks now. Now I just need to repair/modify/replace the old tank.

 

Project is back in business!

 

Eric

 

[ALPJr]

Photos?

[BraceMaker]

@eleeski I've always wanted a ski boat that took outboard removable cans instead of having installed tanks - tank running low, swap it - my dream boat would have 2-3 outboard cans behind the back seat with individual cut off valves.

 

Did you use this wiring kit for power?

https://www.zerogps.com/products/power-extension-kit-fused-5a.html

 

I'd be suspicious that either you have switched power to both wires, or the switched and constant power supply reversed.

[Orlando76]

@BraceMaker somebody modified a TSC1 with gas tank in front of pylon in floor..... I believe. Seem to recall it was outboard style tank.

@eleeski not a bad idea since you’re already in it.

[BraceMaker]

@Orlando76 - for me I'm already using cans, so I go to the gas station fill 5 cans, I bring them to the house and haul them down to the boat, then have to haul them across the lift and pour them into the boat, sometimes you spill sometimes you don't. Either way being able to drop a new can into the boat would be awesome. Also I try to keep a minimal amount of fuel in the boat which I've got marks at 5,10 and 15 gallons on my tank and almost never go to 10 gallons at at time, but due to the shape of the tank you actually can't get all the fuel used.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Due to the proximity to the border it might be more appropriate to rename the boat as the Mexican Skier.

[eleeski]

Problem with the outboard tank and my engine is the return line from the fuel cell of the fuel injected ZO engine isn't there on an outbound tank. That was certainly my initial thought when bypassing the old tank but I just rigged something to a plain tank.

 

The American Skier gets great mileage!

 

The ZO seems to be a problem in the head unit. I bypassed everything straight to the battery and ignition switch. Still would lose everything. Tried a different wiring harness - same. Reversed the hookup - same. Rewired the ignition, replaced the ammeter with a voltmeter and solid connections. I will just switch everything and leave it on for the day.

 

I'll try reversing the red and pink wires again though. Maybe it can reset the defaults. Something changed the defaults in my earlier attempts.

 

Good ideas here.

 

And I probably need a bigger prop...

 

Eric

[gregy]

I have a battery disconnect on my boat that I turn off end of the day. I haven't had any problem with mine loosing its settings. I'm pretty sure both inputs are switch by the disconnect. I'll try to check for sure.

[BraceMaker]

A cheat would be to install a lithium 12v battery w charing circuit for the ZO. Would keep you hot for days.

[DW]

I moved my tank to the ski locker in front of the pylon, made two aluminum tanks to slide in the locker area. Works great & noticeable wake improvement. Empty spot is a great ski storage locker.

[eleeski]

@BraceMaker Good input on the ZO losing its settings! I had the red and pink reversed. Red should be always hot, pink is switched. I had them backwards. It took a while to figure it out because the display stays hot for about 30 seconds after the key is switched off - that confused me. Now I'm happy with my ZO!

 

There is a check valve at the top of the fuel tank. It is sticky and full of crud. Easy flow with it bypassed. I haven't run it yet on the removed check valve but I'm confident. Easier solution than designing for plastic outboard tanks. And I couldn't get the old tank completely out.

 

Trickers want a bigger wake. Maybe sometime in the experiment moving the fuel load will be a test. But there's a lot of other things to try.

 

Eric