2018 VAPOR PRO BINDING AND FIN NUMBERS

[Ed_Johnson]

Just picked up a 68" Vapor Pro and looking for the latest numbers. Bindings forward or aft, fin long shallow or short deep. Running 34mph at 28 thru 38 off. Appreciate any suggestions!!!

 

 

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

@Ed_Johnson Either way you cant go wrong, but Short and deep has been working well Id give these a try:

 

30 1/2"

2.510

6.840

.780

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@ColeGiacopuzzi ... Thanks, will do. Waiting for the CG Fin to get here, but need something to try and get dialed in.

 

[Mateo_Vargas]

@Ed_Johnson I’m on the 68”. Started with stock Short/Deep but couldn’t keep my width at 35 & 38s. Tried stock Long/Shallow and got nice width but a little loose in the turns. I’m liking the numbers I had on last year’s ski

6.956, 2.463, .775 wing 9 and will try going back to 30.5 on the bindings tomorrow.

[Ed_Johnson]

@MateoVargas....Thanks. You said you were going back to 30.5, what were you before and why are you going back. I know from skiing the EVO that 1/8th of an inch can be absolutely crucial in performance.

 

[Mateo_Vargas]

I’ve been going back in forth from 30.625 and 30.5. Curious how you like the CG fin.

[Ed_Johnson]

@MateoVargas ... Tried first set today, bindings at Factory Setting 30 5/8. Turns were smooth but not sharp, no smear. Will now put them at your 30.5 setting to see if that improves it for Monday's set. Thanks !!

 

 

[Mateo_Vargas]

@Ed_Johnson 30.5 felt good today. I’m done moving stuff now.

[markchilcutt]

Currently at the following on a 67

2.45

6.98

0.775

30.125

9 deg

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

Thanks Mark, that's pretty close to what I have right now !!! Only 2 sets so far, but can't believe what little effort is required for this ski to perform.

 

 

 

[block]

Ed,

Did you ski on a 2016 Vapor? What do you think are the differences?

 

Thanks

[Ed_Johnson]

@block ... No, first time on a Vapor. For years now I was pretty much Goodes, then Mapple, and now NRG, EVO, and the Vapor. Two of my 3 ski partners are on Vapors. One of them is on a 16. Loves it, and runs into 39 every time out. He tried the 18 Pro at Rini's, 15 mins down the road from us, and said it was better, but not enough to lay out another couple grand. He has been insisting I try one for a long time now.

 

[block]

Thanks!

Johnny

[Mateo_Vargas]

@rico where are you at on your 68”?

[rico]

Pure Stock

 

Radar Pro Build Vapor 68.00 (2018)

30.625

6.975

2.450

0.770

9.0

 

This is the best I skied in tournaments on a ski in terms of consistency. The ski is stable and predictable and fast. When I make a mistake, it saves my ass.

 

20 rounds of tournaments so far this year and haven’t missed a 35 which for me is good.

[ballsohard]

Does anyone have advice for a 66"?

[coach3]

66” 2018 Vapor for sale. $980 865-755-5588 too much ski for my level. Perfect shape.

[ballsohard]

I'm running my 66" with the fin at 6.965 2.455 .765. I started with the binding at 29.5 and and thought that my setup was perfect but this morning I skied with the front boot moved forward one hole to around 29 3/4 and it was even better, Man I love this ski! Now I'm gonna get some washers and try differential fin depth and see how that treats me.

[jjackkrash]

Where do I measure from on a Vapor binding to the back of the ski?

 

[Jordan]

Measure to the double stitch line on the heel of the front boot

[pregom]

@jjackkrash take the back boot off and measure from the vertical projection of the front boot back on the ski to the tail of the ski.

[Zman]

@jjackkrash I see you have a single plate. When you remove your rear boot to get an accurate measure from front boot to rear of ski, also measure from back of front boot to back of your single plate. Mark this down right on your plate, like with a silver Sharpie.

From now on, you won't need to remove the rear boot. Just measure to the rear of your plate, and add what you marked down.

[jjackkrash]

Ok, thanks folks. I found a technique that worked for me that did not involve removing the rear boot. I measured the blank ski, squared a tape line with a micrometer against the screw holes on the required measurement on the blank ski, and them squared a tape line on the plate basically the same way under the bottom stitch lines, then I lined up the squared tape lines (which matched perfectly on both sides after install, so I feel pretty good about it).

[ballsohard]

Tried skiing with two washers that create differential fin depth and wow! Onside was magical and this inadvertently helped my offside because of the speed and early edge change that the amazing onside created!

[C5Quest]

What size washers? Like to try this

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest ... Most normal size washers are .020 and thin washers .010. You need at least .030 to feel a difference. I buy plastic ones from ACE. They just have to be big enough to fit the center screw of your fin box.

I just used two of them on my CG Fin on the NRG and they worked great to improve the onside turn. Depth Right side was 2.453 and Left side 2.423.

 

[C5Quest]

Think I read an older thread about this. Have to search for it when I get back home. By the way @E_Johnson , is that your ride in your avatar pic?

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest...Yes, It is a Aerobatic Jet that I built and flew in Airshows sponsored by Bud Light for close to 20 years and used it in a James Bond Movie. Then finally had a Indy Car Race Team and flew it at Indy Car Races and some NHRA Events around the Country. So far as I know I was the only one in the World to fly off of Race Tracks, including an Oval. Driving an Indy Car and Flying a 12 ft Jet upside down at 350 MPH is really an amazing kick in the ass !!

 

Almost beat flying 2 Combat Tours in Jet Fighters in my 20's. That was my main goal in life since I was 5 years old.

 

Guess that's why I have always liked skiing so much. You get to go fast and pull G's.

Plus skiing is the best physical training I knew for both Driving Race Cars and Flying Aerobatics.

Plus skiers and Fighter Pilots are a lot a like and share a special bond.

 

 

 

[C5Quest]

@Ed_Johnson. Thought that looked familiar. I’m sure I’ve seen your demo when I was younger. My life has been aviation. Started young. I’m still in the AFRes with 18 years on the C-5. Also fly the 756 for AAL. Back into skiing now after years of track days and racing motorcycles. Needed something to keep my adrenaline up but was less likely to end my 2 luctrative careers.

 

On another note I need to try the washer thing

[Ed_Johnson]

@CFQuest ... Cool, I retired after 30 years flying 747's for NWA. Never thought I would live this long.

 

PS: Try the washers, they have not only worked on the Vapor, but every ski I have put them on. Any questions, PM me.

 

 

[tjm]

@Ed_Johnson could you explain how washers are used/installed. R foot forward.

[Ed_Johnson]

@tjm .. Very simple, place them under the center left side screw in your fin block. You want to shallow the left side of your fin by at least .030 to feel any results. There is no bigger improvement you can make for less than one dollar.

 

[tjm]

@Ed_Johnson thank you

[lakeo]

On the forebody of the 2017 Vapor pro build there is a ridge. What is the purpose of this ridge?

 

[BlueSki]

@Skijay says it so much better below and with far more accuracy that I edited this post to point you there.

[SkiJay]

@lakeo

The ridge is a design byproduct, not a performance feature. It's the unavoidable byproduct of a design that sought to put a tunnel tip on a concave ski without changing the radius of the concave from tip to tail.

 

The flat rails that run forward of the ridge to the tip form parallel edges to the concaved section of the tip (called a tunnel). This tunnel reduced tip bite helping the ski maintain outbound direction later in the pre-turn. On the earliest version of this design, the ridge didn't go from one side to the other; it blended into the ski's base quite quickly. This blend required the radius of the concave to be tighter along the tip than it was down the rest of the ski. If I'm not mistaken, the radius of the tip contour was 10", and the rest of the base had an 11" radius concave.

 

This design still left the tip with a bit more bite than intended. So the next version of the ski had an 11" radius concave from tip to tail. But to keep the edge rails, there had to be that ridge running from one side of the ski to the other.

 

The end result was one of the most forgiving tips ever put on a water ski. It didn't deliver as much tip pressure as some aggressive skiers wanted, but you could inadvertently dunk the whole tip into the water mid-turn without suffering pass-ending tip-grab.

[C5Quest]

Any pics of washer set up? I remember seeing a thread a while ago with the discussion. Linky to thread?

 

[tjm]

I am not an engineer, just an old Irish guy from the north side. I believe you all that the washer thing works. I just can’t understand how you get two different depths?? Does the fin get cockeyed in the process???

[slow]

The half of the tail of the that has the washers bows due to the fact is slotted

[tjm]

So the ski is being altered, not the fin. Thank you.

[Ed_Johnson]

@tjm... Here is the explanation from the Denali Web-Site. We just substituted washers for the screw jack, that's all. Has the same effect.

 

https://www.denaliskis.com/single-post/2016/01/31/Fin-Area-Tuning-System

 

 

[tjm]

@Ed_Johnson that is very good stuff! Thank you for that! I guess you can teach old dogs new tricks after all!!

[C5Quest]

Any pics of your washer set up? Did you double stack them or use one thick one? I found some in my garage that measured about .05+ the thinnest I found was around .02

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest ... Whatever it takes. I have 2 fiber washers from ACE that equate to .030. The first time I ever tried it I went to the shed and found 2 small washers, one thick and one thin that equaled .030. It's not rocket science, any washers that fit in the fin block will work. Just stick them in there and go ski !!!

 

 

[C5Quest]

Cool. So basically washer size doesn’t matter just as long as you get the .30 Fd difference.

 

[C5Quest]

So just another though about onside turns. Does the washer improve the onside like rotation of the rear binding ? I tried rotation for a couple sets and onside were obviously improved but effected my offside. Still messing around with settings to see what works best