MOB System 1st release test!

[Jaypro]

So after having knee surgery last November, I decided to move to a releasable binding. I liked the idea of being able to come out horizontally as well as vertically so I decided to go with the MOB binding. I have been skiing it a few weeks now but hadn't had a good digger yet. Well, today was the day. After an opening pass 22' at 28mph, I had finished 6 ball and was heading for the exit gate. Not sure what happened, next thing I know I am flipping through the air! First flip ski come off seamlessly, what a relief! Thanks Mike!

[mmosley899]

@Jaypro glad all went as designed! But avoid those situations! I do, I want to ski again next week!

[ConPexEr]

@Jaypro have tested the release off the water?

[Jaypro]

@ConPexEr no

[Andre]

@mmosley899

Just curious,can owners test release off the water\on the dock?

[BraceMaker]

It is strange isn't it? Doesn't have that "tug" silverettas do as you come out.

 

@Andre - there are videos on the website of testing. Here is my input on testing as a system user (OB4 plate/releases w/ MOB sole plates) When set to the point where you can trip it similarly to a reflex it is probably set too loose - however when set to the proper point I don't feel the release pop during a crash. But I also don't see the variability - ie. I've set the tension on 3 silvretta releases and had them be anywhere from barely on the window to full spring tension to get similar release pressures on dock testing. The impact of the boot on the system means that the tension is not meaningful/scaled. Because the MOB system has set dimensions (not adjustable position of the releases) and set plate dimensions the spring tension really is much more similar to a DIN where you can set to a linear distance on the spring housing and extrapolate the spring pressure/release tension.

[Andre]

So,the answer is no ?

Edit:Just back from the website.Seems you can't check the release on the dock.

[Wolfeie]

In June I fractured my ankle and tore some ligaments while attempting a 35 off @ 34 mph.

I was on a Vapor Pro with the Vapor boots which probably were too tight. Too this day don't know what happened....people on the shoreline said the fall did not look that bad.

Seriously looking at the MOB system when I return to skiing. This season may be toast, lucky I had a early start and plenty of sets up to June. Nice to see feedback from a MOB user. Certainly would love to hear more skiers experiences with the MOB system, both releasing and general feelings when skiing.

[BraceMaker]

@Andre I think what I'd say is - should you really need to? We've been sold on the idea that you better test your release so you don't snap your leg. Maybe we should be saying that other than verifying basic function it shouldn't need to be tested by tugging your foot out. I don't specifically yank my ski boots off my downhill ski for instance to see if the release is working.

[Jaypro]

@Andre alpine ski bindings are torque tested before the customer gets them. You provide the ski shop with your height, weight, skier ability and age. There is a chart to determine the proper DIN setting. Alpine skiers don't torque test their bindings before each day. This set up is similar in that regard. You use the chart to determine your setting given the above information. I feel extremely comfortable with this set up. I came out when I wanted to, and have not prereleased. I Believe Mike also said that you can torque test the MOB system. I find that a far more reliable and repeatable method to check release point vs trying to pull your heel up on a dock. Releasing on a dock is completely different than on the water give speed, g force, rotation, etc. In my opinion the only way to truly test a binding would be a torque wrench. I Hope that helps!!

[mmosley899]

@Andre @Jaypro is exactly correct in his evaluation of the testing situation. You cannot duplicate the dynamic forces needed to release the system standing on the dock. You can force the boot plate out, but you are more likely to damage parts than determine whether the tension is set properly. To properly test the release tension you must use a torque wrench and the chart. You will also need an adapter, which I had made by my machine shop.

 

But to further clarify, I had my spring manufacturer test each spring at a specific compression length and label each with the poundage required to reach that compression. I write that on the systems when I build them. And I build each one myself. So I know exactly how much pressure is being put on the plunger in every system. If the release operates smoothly and is set according to the chart, you should only need to verify that nothing has changed. I have not checked my system since I built it and put it on my ski. It works every time and I have never had a pre-release.

[blakeyates]

I am on a MOB and this is probably my 3rd year. I like it the Best! No problemo.

[Andre]

Ok.I'll bite.

I was exactly where @Wolfeie is August 3 2016.Will try to explain what happened ,excuse my bad english.

Threw the ski around 2 @ 35 off (stupid move,i'm taking all the blame as i was frustrated with my attempt at 35.)

As i was totally horizontal and my body was perpendicular to the course for my first bounce off the water my ski caught the water surface and suddenly i was parralel to the course,head first, and then my ski completely caught in the water ,full lenght of the ski acted as a brake and my Achilles took the hit.My Reflex released ...but too late damage was done.Complete rupture.

I have looked long and hard at Mike's system but decided to stay on Reflex.

Question.

Could a MOB system have saved my ski season,surgery,4 months off work,rehab,PT and all the troubles i went through ?

Why is there no Pros\Big Dawgs (that i know of) using MOB? I understand the sponsors thing but still,if the system is safer then the rest,why no one that i know using it?

500$ for a single release,no boot, is a bit steep and maybe that's why we don't see more of Mike's system but i would have gladly paid that to save my Achilles!

Someone should invent a crash test dummy for testing releases.

Maybe @Horton is looking for a job...

 

Edit:How thick is the boot plate? Could be pics but looks to be at least 3\8 ...

[BraceMaker]

So a few things in your scenario Andre

 

The boot plate itself - the OB4 had an aluminum part that was quite thick, the OB4 is a G10 plate I'd bet it is a metric dimension not standard, possibly 5mm so not thin but not extremely thick either. I'm currently using an Obrien Legion front boot with a Radar HRT rear and the foam foot bed in the HRT combined with the mesh bottomed liner in the front boot has them pretty close to the same overall thickness from ski.

 

I assume you were running Reflex front with an RTP?

 

Why I don't feel reflex works well in the scenario you got into is that the release horseshoe is up off the plate to keep the boot from rocking due to this if the release force that is directly lifting the heel into the silvretta unit doesn't reach that defined point where it "pops" you're stuck and that one force is only a small part of the net force transferred into your leg. Reflex knows this and has been busy designing parts that let the boot flex more to give you the feel and range that skiers want, lower cuffs more ROM and a forwards check strap for instance on their slalom offerings. In the product the silvretta releases were scavenged out of the release didn't lock in over your heel it locked into that same lower ledge that all other ski bindings utilize below the boot.

 

Where the MOB is different, the plate only controls the base of your binding. Which means your binding has more degrees of freedom to flex as it was designed to - be it laterally forwards backwards. But since all forces act to compress the forward spring the net forces you experience into your body are directly limited.

[Andre]

@BraceMaker

Yep,RTP and front black low cuff Reflex no heel strap ,750 release.

Maybe a heel strap could have help...I'll never know.

 

[mmosley899]

@Andre I hate that you had such a bad injury doing something you love to do. There is no way to know if a different binding setup would have prevented your specific injury. All you can do is evaluate how each system should work and decide which one will best serve your needs going forward.

 

My system has worked well for me for a long time and for my kids. I put this system back out into the market a few years ago at the urging of several skiing friends. It is working well for a lot of skiers! Getting skiers who already have a system that works, to change systems is a slow process. Most skiers hate to change anything about their setup. Most skiers are not looking for a safer binding system until they are forced to do so.

 

The MOB system is expensive to build. It is made from all custom machined parts made specifically for me. None of the parts are robbed from some other purpose. It is still cheaper than your deductible for a hospital visit, not to mention the long term damage done.

 

On the MOB system, the bottom of your chosen boot sits at the same height off of the ski as a boot on a Goode interlock system. I have previously used a much higher setup to run 39off/34mph, so I don't consider the current height a detrimate to performance.

 

A big advantage to the system is that you can use any boot. Meaning you can find one that fits you comfortably and suits your skiing style.

 

Hopefully I will get a chance to show you one in person sometime!

[Andre]

Thanks Mike for the clear explanations! I do understand that machining your own parts and low volume make for a higher retail price.

I too hope to be able to test your system one day and try to convert my ski partners to MOB!

[Hipsup]

My daughter has been on a double ob4/mob system for around 5 years and she skied into 13m as a 14 year old on it. She falls very rarely but when she does (2-3 per season) she takes massive otf's which have in the past resulted in broken equipment and concussion-Seeing your precious little kids take massive crashes at 34 mph shortline is not for the faint of heart!

For some reason there is always a lot of suspicion on the dock about the MOB system with people often commenting that no good skiers use them so they must be rubbish-but I don't like being a lemming and like to make my own mind up. The system has always released as it should for my daughter and she has never had a pre-release.

This season I have also mounted my vapor binding on a MOB single release and I have not noticed a perceptible difference in feel or performance. If anything the binding now feels better and gives better edge control because I'm able to do the laces up really tight without fear of not releasing.

Whilst my daughter uses the double set up I do think it works better as a single because it's quite heavy and a bit of a hassle getting the boots in and out. Also because the spring release on the rear foot is behind the boot and most falls result in your weight moving forward it does seem to work more smoothly as the front boot release.

In the time I've been using the single release it has pre-released twice (spring not tight enough) but since I have adjusted it correctly it now releases when it should and not before and the release is really smooth with no drama.

On the subject of dock tests you can't really do one with your foot in but you can test the system with the boot in for sideways release. I tend to just test it once or twice a year to put my mind at rest by just laying the ski on its side and pushing the rear of the boot downwards-it's take quite a lot of force/weight but the boot will release sideways without damaging the ledges/mounting/boots.

Otherwise, we just make sure the release levers work smoothly before each set and we're good to go.

You'll never know for sure if a binding setup is going to save you in a bad fall but at least I know that it can release sideways and from the toe if it needs to unlike a reflex/rubber. I've been at a tournament when a young kid very nearly lost his foot in a rotational crash wearing a rubber boot - and it's not something I ever want to experience again!

[Jody_Seal]

I have a MOB release that I have been using on a trick ski. I too was uncertain about it's workings and reliability of releasing. My testing was to make myself feel comfortable to install on my front slalom binding. Having a club foot has it's challenges anyway and being left foot forward with the club foot I have orthotic's and a steep wedge to compensate. After my recent ankle fracture i plan on having Mike mount my boot set up on my MOB system. Now not saying the MOB would have saved me from fracture had it been installed as my fracture was caused by a direct jam into the ski in rough water and i am pretty sure it was one of those incidents that no release system could have saved me from. I feel that had it been installed though it may have given me a better chance to survive and ski another day.

If any one is wanting to see this system put to it extreme test come Watch Jazzy in women 2 jump as she utilizes them on her jumpers!! I think that if Mike is comfortable enough to put his own daughter on these for jumping they are a very reliable system.

[ScottScott]

Kinda like (the rumor of) the invenetor of gfci tossing a toaster into the bathtub with his daughter in it....

[eleeski]

@ScottScott It was his wife!

[mmosley899]

@ScottScott I jumped with my system for many years, wouldn't jump without it. So it was no gamble to put her on them. But you do have to maintain your equipment and check operation regularly.

[mmosley899]

@Hipsup the new polycarbonate release system is much lighter. Hopefully you already have her on the G10 plates, they work better than the OB four ones.

[ScottScott]

@mmosley899 I have no doubt it was well tested before you put your daughter on it. Something about @Jody_Seal s comment made me think of the gfi guy...... of course I'm sure he had the gfi well tested also before he threw the toaster in with his wife/daughter.....whatever it was. I've been convinced for a while, I'll be on a MOB soon. Just got my vapor.....that's next.

[Hipsup]

@mmosley899 yes she's on the g10 plates, although the first gen ones not the wider one. I look forward to seeing the poly release mechanism- although I've still not seen another system at all here in the uk.

[ScottScott]

Had my 1st release from my MOB system today, after having it almost 2 months. Turned into a little slack on 1 ball resulting in more lean than expected, it shot me across the wakes. Out of position (partially out of panic,) I came out the back just after the wakes. Felt absolutely nothing, not thinking the ski came off till I saw it floating next to me. I have taken this fall before in previous boots that I ran really loose, and came out. This release would have been pulling up on the front, or rotating, or a little of both. Came out nice and clean. Most other heel release systems wouldn't have released. It was a pretty mild crash, and if I stayed in the boot, it may not have resulted in much (if any) injury. But, was nice to see the system working, especially in a rotational fall, while being firmly locked into a boot, the Radar Vapor. Like in another thread this was discussed....I do have a minor bruise on my shin.... I guess from the back of the front boot......could be the ski?

[mmosley899]

@ScottScott great to meet you at the KoD event Saturday, I'm guessing you skied Sunday, the weather turned out great. Glad you now know how it will release!

[ScottScott]

@mmosley899 Good to meet you too. Yes, weather turned nice on Sunday (one of those ignore the forcast day) then even better monday. Skied Sunday, and Monday. Monday was Wipeout day.

[E350]

Any updates? Comments? Suggestions?

[vtmecheng]

@E350 not sure what you are looking for. People have the same comments today as they did last year. Release works and is worth it to me.

[BraceMaker]

@E350 if all the ski companies would install another set of inserts upfront mike could make a plate that needs no tape.

 

Reflex xl would fit better etc.

[vtmecheng]

Agree with @BraceMaker that the tape is the one thing I don't like. You can use a stronger dual lock but that also requires at least 3mm EVA foam added to the plate bottom to accommodate. I haven't done it yet, don't want to change anything until the off season.

 

Edit: it may require more than 3mm, I'll find out this winter.

[BraceMaker]

Technically I'm using the black 3m Velcro currently

[mmosley899]

@vtmecheng @BraceMaker I am currently testing an add on part to eliminate the need for tape, but it would be great if all the slalom ski manufacturers added the inserts up front like D3 is now doing.

[BraceMaker]

Nice. On my ski I'm planning to put a blob of jb weld saran wrap and set my plate to get a flat. But a stiffener or even more of a reinforced plate

[Jaypro]

So I started this post a year ago and could not be mote pleased. I have come out every time I needed to and NEVER when I didn't want to. I am a nobody, but i don’t think it is even close. Only binding that gives full release, toe and heel, over the front, you name it.

[OscawanaSkier]

I was just saying the same thing this AM, after my tape let go. Not sure what’s involved with installing inserts into a ProBuild. Don’t want to sink screws into them.

 

@mmosley899 - how worried do we need to be with tape that let’s go at front of plate. I’ve skied it when it’s happened a couple times (usually happens standing on the swim platform hovering over glassy water - tough to climb back in the boat).

[AU_Skier]

I transitioned last month from the Goode PowerShell 5 system with tape following a premature release at the wakes at 32 off 34 mph resulting in bummed up ribs. So, I sent my PowerShells to Mike and he mounted them on the MOB release system at no additional cost - everything is working as advertised and no premature releases!

 

As for the front release tape, I tapped 2 inserts into my Goode Revolution and added screws to the front most slots. The tape is still in place but not sure if it is needed.

[ToddL]

Just curious - how does one exit the bindings at the end of the ski set? Unlace/ unlatch the chosen bindings - I assume? (With a 755, one can reach back and pop it loose. With traditional bindings, you grab the tip and pull your heals out. )

[vtmecheng]

@ToddL you can reach forward and pull on the lever to release the binding from the ski. I use a lace up binding so just unlace it and slide off. That said, I'm in 5 ft of water so if something came off it's no big deal.

[Iski61]

Curious what is the tape for and what happens if you don't use it?

[BraceMaker]

@ToddL just like most hardshell users you release the binding and get on the dock.

 

They you remove your boot.

 

You can also remount a front in the water with out the platform. Rear might be tough

[vtmecheng]

Tape holds the bottom plate down at the release mechanism, which sticks out forward from the front of the binding. It's needed to keep the plate flat and from flopping between the release and the front most inserts.

[OscawanaSkier]

This thread got me motivated to see about adding the two inserts needed to hold the front release down. Found great thread here on BoS : https://tinyurl.com/y4e5qktn There’s a great post by @eleeski

 

Another question for @mmosley899 - are the front-most slots in the same spot on the original OB4 plate as your current MOB model. I’m on an OB4 now and just want to know in case I upgrade some day.

[ScottScott]

I assume the tape just holds the front while you used the release lever to unmount the boot from the ski. My tape wore out also. Regardless, I've never had an issue pulling the lever in the water and kicking my ski off (foot still firmly in boot.) I climb back onto the boat with the boot on, and take off boot in boat. With the front plate not held firmly in place, it just makes taking the boot off in other situations a little more difficult, but not unmanageable. I don't think it changes anything regarding the releasing characteristics while skiing.

 

My preference would be not to have to add inserts, but I suppose I can.

@mmosley899 I would be interested in that add on piece.

[vtmecheng]

You should have tape at the front most part of the plate right under the release mechanism and between the release and the front ski inserts. That second tape is so the metal doesn't bow up off the ski when your weight isn't on it. At least that's how I understand it.

[Bookm_dano]

I am on a single OB4 with RTP and always release the 3 fasteners on the boot (Roxa skate boot) , slip my foot out with the liner still on and leave the boot attached.... Maybe not the best method as exercising the release mechanism is probably a good idea. I quit pulling the release lever in the water because if the tape comes loose, you bend the crap out of the mounting plate. I will probably put the extra inserts in my next ski.

BTW.. I really like this system and recently ordered a new MOB from Mike (and one to replace my wife's Reflex... Topic for another thread.)

[vtmecheng]

@Bookm_dano I take the binding off after my set to let things dry,n keep everything stressed during storage, and exercise the mechanism. That way I can hold down the front of the plate when I pull the handle, keeping the tape from getting pulled over and over again. I tend to over think things.

[mmosley899]

@Bookm_dano I shipped your new systems Friday, lol... Add the inserts if you can, I added them to my EVO.

 

D3 is putting forward inserts in their new 67&68” skis, like what the Reflex long plate uses. I plan to make plates to fit that hole pattern also. Currently the MOB plates have the same hole pattern as the D3, Radar & Quantum trick ski.

 

@vtmecheng is correct. It is extremely important that the MOB mounting plate be firmly attached to the ski at the point where the boot plate engages the release mechanism. If not the plate can flex upward causing unexpected release. If you need to replace the tape, it can be found at an auto parts store. Information is on the website. If the tape is not sticking well, clean the surface of the ski.

 

@OscawanaSkier No, the original OB plate matched the HO exo hole pattern, the MOB plate hole pattern matches the standard trick ski pattern. I will have an optional hole pattern to fit the D3 pattern, but it would be great if all the ski manufacturers would adopt the trick ski hole pattern for the longer plates.

 

@ToddL Like @BraceMaker said, I pull the release lever and remove the boot from the ski to get in the boat or on the dock. Then I can remove the boot from my foot.

 

@ScottScott unfortunately the new part will not fit retro actively without a modification to the spring housing. Contact me and we will can get that done for you in the off season.

 

I am always working to make the system more user friendly and appreciate skier feedback.

 

Thanks for your support!

[vtmecheng]

Use a bit of rubbing alcohol on the ski and MOB plate where you will put tape. Let it dry and apply the tape. It should stay strong for a long time.