Does Wing/Foil affect Pitch/Attitude

[Stevie Boy]

How much does the Wing/Foil affect Pitch/Attitude of the ski or is there little effect at all, or though the angle set can increase or decrease drag is there any reaction to the veturi effect produced by the flow of water between the Wing/Foil and the ski.

Is there any thoughts on this ?

[lpskier]

One of my ski partners says that increasing wing angle increases lift at the tail of the ski, thereby engaging more of the front of the ski in the early part of the turn, particularly on the off side. But it also increases drag.

[6balls]

Increases drag which pulls the ski more behind you thus weight transfer slight forward and more tip in the water--at least that's how it "feels" to me when I go to more wing.

 

If you read fin whispering, the wing is really your drag device into the ball--does other stuff too but it's the main purpose.

[Stevie Boy]

Thanks guy's my thinking was along the lines of@Ipskier

[Horton]

There's no way the wing lifts the tail. No freaking way.

[Dano]

Seems to me the wing would act as a wedge that would drag the tail of the ski deeper into the water, increasing drag. Similar in principle to the "wedge" Malibu uses to adjust wake for wakeboarding.

[eleeski]

As a pilot, the elevator (in the same plane as the ski's wing) controls pitch in level flight - so wing angle will raise the tip. But in a steep turn, the elevator no longer controls pitch but instead controls turn radius. Pulling back the elevator (adding wing angle) tightens the turn. In an airplane, a tighter turn drops the nose as the rudder (equivalent to the fin) generates relatively more lift.

 

Airplanes aren't waterskis. But they are interacting with a fluid medium in 3d like a waterski.

 

The ski wing is a subtle force generator. Its effects are real. If you have enough angle between the ski and the water, it will tighten the turn radius and add some tip pressure.

 

Another good reason not to ski flat.

 

Eric

[thager]

See "Fin Whispering" By Jay Posente.

[JackQ]

I hate to disagree with Horton but a wing can lift the tail of the ski!

 

Just last week I came back from the Nationals with a ski to try and in my rush to set the fin, I somehow in my biggest single boneheaded move, I put the wing in a 9.5 degree up position rather than down!

 

Went out and ran 28 but ski felt like it had lots of tip, squirrelly and very fast. Ran another 28, two ugly 32s, and tired 35, the last thing I clearly recall is ski turned harder at #2 than the shorter passes.

 

When I came to, I was next to number 3, wind knocked out of me, and my left side was numb and I could not more my right arm. After 15 minutes I could feel and move my arm, but still feeling the results. This was the single hardest crash in my life, and self-inflected. I did not realize my mistake until later in the day when I felt good enough to bend down and curse at the ski, and realized it was me.

[eleeski]

@JackQ .Cavitation can happen if the wing is not set properly. I've done some testing with experimental wings and settings and it's easy to induce cavitation. With cavitation, the fin (and entire ski) gets loose - like you describe.

 

At some point in evaluating a new ski, I will run the wing angle (the proper direction) until it cavitates. It's easy to feel the transition. Back off one degree and I have a working limit to wing angle. Skis work a lot better with no cavitation at the fin.

 

Eric

[mwetskier]

@Horton -if you read the @SkiJay book about fin tuning you might be surprised. he proves that at least half the time the wing *is* providing lift to the tail. the difference between ski angle and ski path due to the ski slipping down course is enough to create an effective wing angle that is actually creating lift. that is during what he calls the ' cut ' phase. unlike most of my posts this is not *my* opinion -its Skijay's opinion. but i do think he's right.

[bigtex2011]

fairly certain adding wing angle lowers tail and the reverse for less wing. agree with @Horton

[Stevie Boy]

So I was working along the lines of the venturi effect, as the flow of water between the wing and the ski increases and the water under the wing decreases it creates lift but which has more effect the drag of the wing or the lift created by the different pressures over and under the wing.

[lazzn]

Drag is certainly the biggest effect of the wing, and this is easy to demonstrate. Take your wing off and go ski shortline. The speed difference/deceleration into the turn should be obvious

[jayski]

@mwetskier thanks but you meant @SkiJay who wrote the book...confusing I know...We did it on purpose to confuse everyone..or did we...are we different or are we the same person...(insert twilight zone music here)

[baja]

Fin Whispering is the bible, the rosetta stone, the magic 8 ball, and/or the definitive doctoral dissertation on slalom waterski fins and wings... depending on where you place your faith for the answers you seek to the greatest of all questions facing mankind... WTF does my fin & wing do and why?